Prospect Info: Bruins Prospects VIII - Stay on Subject!

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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
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Knight was a right shot wing, senyshyn is a right shot wing. Both have underperformed professionally from what was expected. Both were given bottom 6 minutes in providence despite high draft slot. Both had/have adamant supporters on the board that assure the leery posters that playing low minutes in checking lines is for development not an indictment of their skill. “They already know he’s a potent goal scorer who’ll dominate in the top 6, he needs to get his defensive game right so he can truly dominate.”- - common rebuttal if you question their role on the ahl team. They are quite similar despite the fact that senyshyn is 2 inches taller and 6 pounds lighter. Sure knight was known more as a hard checking power forward and senyshyn a speed demon power forward. So yes their skill sets aren’t the same. But the path to the nhl has been to this point.

Step one: drafted by Boston
Step two: play bottom 6 and underwhelm in providence.
Step 3: dumped.

We will see if step 3 happens for senyshyn but like I said, I’d be more surprised if he turns into the 25-30 goal power wing than if they dump him for the Zach Phillips equivalent.

Still think he has a shot at a 10-15 goal a year bottom 6 guy, but the hope of anything more is dwindling overall, and for me personally that hope is gone

Chris bourque is top 10 alltime ahl scoring leader. Dominating that league made him an nhl superstar right?

Bruce boudreau was 3rd alltime ahl scorer. I still quake in fear how he ate us alive once he got called up

Ahl is a learning league... its no ones ambition to stay there. You learn what you need to get called up to nhl.
 

Montecristo

Registered User
Jul 29, 2012
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Chris bourque is top 10 alltime ahl scoring leader. Dominating that league made him an nhl superstar right?

Bruce boudreau was 3rd alltime ahl scorer. I still quake in fear how he ate us alive once he got called up

Ahl is a learning league... its no ones ambition to stay there. You learn what you need to get called up to nhl.

How many great current nhl forwards spent their first 2 seasons in the ahl averaging under .5 ppg? Honest question I don’t know the answer to
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
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Where is the evidence for that? (Rumors and hearsay don't count.)

I know Senyshyn’s mother was talking to a person that posts here at Dev Camp and told that person that DET told ZS they were taking him at 19 if he was there. If that person wants to confirm they can, I’m just not going to speak for them because I wasn’t there.

I am also pretty sure that he met with Toronto before the draft. It was widely speculated that his former GM for the Soo, Kyle Dubas, was going to select him at 24 (TOR ended up trading out of that spot).

Just to weigh in on the Senyshyn v Knight comparison that seems to be the rage.

1) They are/were different types of players stylistically. Knight was a pretty good defensive player in the OHL. Senyshyn was not asked to play much D in Junior and the B’s knew he was going to be a longer term project when they drafted him.

2) The biggest difference between the two is that Knight has Type 1 Diabetes. I am no doctor, but I believe the presence of this condition can hinder a person’s ability to heal and recover? You can draw a direct correlation between the diabetes and Knight’s many injuries (and his inability to come back from them).
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
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grigori denisenko hasnt played yet
eric brannstrom 1 game... great rep
luke kunin 19 points in 59 games... 35 points in 61 ahl games
dylan larkin... obviously huge success
ryan pulock is finally looking like an nhl regular
codi ceci... i think we would all be happy with him
jt miller... averages less than 20 goals... around 40 points
derek forbort is 27 with just 244 nhl games
peter Holland

so these are the last 10 picks number 15... i will go 2 more and throw denisenko/branstrom out since its difficult to judge in just 2 years

erik karlsson was a 15 pick
and so was alex plante

{kind of shows you the hit and miss potential right there}

how many superstars do we see in this last 10 drafts?
larkin? karlsson? to me... thats 2

how many top 6 regulars/top 3 dmen?
miller? ceci? do we includ pulock?

how many bottom 6?bottom 3?
kunin? forbert?

and how many busts?
holland? plante?

where will senyshyn land on this list? seems the odds say its 50-50 whether to expect a guy to ever be better than a bottom 6 guy. of course we hope for it... would we be happy with jt miller? only 1 forward drafted in the past 12 years at number 15 was better than jt miller
millers first year in the ahl he was 19... he had 23 points in 42 games... 8 goals.
at age 22 on march of 2005 he had 114 nhl games but only 33 points in those games... only 15 nhl goals

this is what you get at pick number 15...

i think we all agree senyshyn wont be larkin or karlsson... but i think he could still be miller and thats what you get 80% of the time
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
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How many great current nhl forwards spent their first 2 seasons in the ahl averaging under .5 ppg? Honest question I don’t know the answer to

I think using ahl performance to predict nhl results is like throwing darts at the draft board... sometimes you hit number 20 because you simply arnet skilled enough to avoid it

I can make all my stock purchases based on what color car I see drive past my house first thing after I wake up... red car I buy tech... green car I buy hog futures... and yellow car I sell sell sell

it might work. I might make a lot of money. but to say there was any coorelation between the car and my choice seems far fetched.

now I make my stock predictions not on cars... but on indicators. you ask me... does that make me rich? and I say no. im not able to pay my bills without using my credit card for the past 2 years lol. so... whats my point?

I guess im saying you try to do the right thing... you hope for the best results. you trust yourself. senyshyn had indicators that stood out and the team thought he might be a good choice. they are now grooming him in a way they think might maximize the return. and am I sure that it will pay off?

no one is sure... but you take your swing at the plate and hope to bat over 300 in baseball. in life, sometimes 300 or 500 is about the best you can reasonably hope for
 

BlackFrancis

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Dec 14, 2013
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2) The biggest difference between the two is that Knight has Type 1 Diabetes. I am no doctor, but I believe the presence of this condition can hinder a person’s ability to heal and recover? You can draw a direct correlation between the diabetes and Knight’s many injuries (and his inability to come back from them).
According to HF Bruins, Knight "getting screwed" by every coach, ever had more to do with his lack of success as a professional. USA Hockey staff, our own Bruce Cassidy, all the Hunters and likely his pee wee coach all allegedly screwed him over, causing him not to be invited to the combine, not getting first line minutes in juniors, not being developed properly in Providence and, finally, not being invited to try out for Team USA.

Little of that was heard from Knight himself, of course. It is far easier to indulge in fantasy than believe others view one of the Bruins' draftees in a lesser light that we would have hoped.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
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How many great current nhl forwards spent their first 2 seasons in the ahl averaging under .5 ppg? Honest question I don’t know the answer to

in brandon bochinskis first ahl season 34 goals 70 points
22 goals in just 33 games his next year and a call up to nhl

33 goals in 35 games his next year... another call up... holy crap I wish we got this guy

oh wait... we did … smart move cause he had 89 goals in just 143 ahl games

{for the sake of honesty... I was so excited when we traded for him because he had 89 goals in 143 ahl games. I had him in all my mock lineups as our new number 1 winger... true story}

scoring a lot of points in the ahl has never guaranteed any kid a happy future in the nhl earning million dollar paydays. kids are in the ahl to earn a promotion to nhl and stay there getting paid

true story... I went to school with len esau. he was a defensemen... ahl all star. if I remember correct he wont the hardest shot and fastest skater at the all star game but I might be wrong about that. I wasnt close with len esau but I rode a school bus with him... had gym class together... played pickup hockey/football with him.

he had a long long career in ahl... and I think around 9 nhl games in his entire career.

his making the all star team in ahl didnt matter jack crap because his overall pro game wasnt nhl worthy so he played for 30-40-50 k a year his entire life or whatever it was in ahl. trust me, if he could have chosen to be an ahl all star or a 7th dman in the nhl earning 600k theres only one choice he would have made
 
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Son of Donegal

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Look at Anthony Mantha in DET.

Similar draft position.

Similar body-type and style.

Similar development path and output in the AHL.

All that Sensyshyn needs to do is earn his chance and take advantage of it. He has the skill and speed.

He is also only 21. I don't know about you, but I did most of my learning AFTER age 21.

Personally, while I would love Sensyshyn to be ready tomorrow, I care more that he is impactful when and if he does make it.
 

Montecristo

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Jul 29, 2012
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in brandon bochinskis first ahl season 34 goals 70 points
22 goals in just 33 games his next year and a call up to nhl

33 goals in 35 games his next year... another call up... holy crap I wish we got this guy

oh wait... we did … smart move cause he had 89 goals in just 143 ahl games

{for the sake of honesty... I was so excited when we traded for him because he had 89 goals in 143 ahl games. I had him in all my mock lineups as our new number 1 winger... true story}

scoring a lot of points in the ahl has never guaranteed any kid a happy future in the nhl earning million dollar paydays. kids are in the ahl to earn a promotion to nhl and stay there getting paid

true story... I went to school with len esau. he was a defensemen... ahl all star. if I remember correct he wont the hardest shot and fastest skater at the all star game but I might be wrong about that. I wasnt close with len esau but I rode a school bus with him... had gym class together... played pickup hockey/football with him.

he had a long long career in ahl... and I think around 9 nhl games in his entire career.

his making the all star team in ahl didnt matter jack crap because his overall pro game wasnt nhl worthy so he played for 30-40-50 k a year his entire life or whatever it was in ahl. trust me, if he could have chosen to be an ahl all star or a 7th dman in the nhl earning 600k theres only one choice he would have made

I understand that ahl success doesn’t always mean nhl success. There are examples of great ahl performers that never worked out in the nhl. There are also examples of great ahl performers that did work out in the nhl. But has a lack of ahl success at the forward position EVER led to success at the nhl level in the last 20~ years? I saw yanni gourde had 2 subpar pro seasons before picking it up massively in year 3. He’s the exception, and for senyshyn to join that party of 1, he needs to have a great year 3
 

Montecristo

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Jul 29, 2012
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Look at Anthony Mantha in DET.

Similar draft position.

Similar body-type and style.

Similar development path and output in the AHL.

All that Sensyshyn needs to do is earn his chance and take advantage of it. He has the skill and speed.

He is also only 21. I don't know about you, but I did most of my learning AFTER age 21.

Personally, while I would love Sensyshyn to be ready tomorrow, I care more that he is impactful when and if he does make it.

Mantha is 6-5, senyshyn is 6-1. Mantha had 78 ahl points his first 2 years, senyshyn has 50. I’m not expecting him to be close to mantha
 

BruinsFanSince94

The Perfect Fan ™
Sep 28, 2017
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Why are people so hellbent on comparing Zach Senyshyn to other players, other situations, etc. etc.?? He's not Brandon Bochenski. He's not Jared Knight. His situation is completely different to them. Just let the f***ing kid be him, and hope he continues to develop and have success in the NHL. Really, you'd think some here want this kid to fail so they can do the pound their chest and do the ol' "LOOK AT ME HFBOARDS!!! I WAS RIGHT ON DA PLAYAH!!! I SAID HE SUCKED AND WOULD BUST!!! I WAS RIGHT!! COME KISS MY ASS!!"
 

bob27

Grzelcyk is a top pairing defenceman
Apr 2, 2015
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Michael Dal Colle took a step forward after two mediocre to bad AHL seasons. Still hasn't translated into being a good NHL player, but being a PPG player in the AHL is better than where he was year ago. Hopefully Senyshyn can do something similar. There's just no getting away from the fact that 15th overall pick being under 0.5ppg player in their second consecutive AHL season looks pretty bad.
 
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Spooner st

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Jan 14, 2007
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This is pure stupidity. You are trying to compare to players on points rather than the more important parts like play style or position which aren't the same at all.

You do know that Ottawa wanted him at 18.

Ottawa also picked up Alexandre Daigle. First overall.
 

Mick Riddleton

“A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.”
Apr 24, 2017
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I really think comparing him to Chris Kelly is selling him for far less than he’s worth— I don’t see it, personally. I’m not big on comparisons, but I think Mike Fisher is a better comparable than Chris Kelly.

Well said and if he is Kelly than we have to find someone that play 2nd or 1st line center. We need more than a another bottom pairing PK centerman.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
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I understand that ahl success doesn’t always mean nhl success. There are examples of great ahl performers that never worked out in the nhl. There are also examples of great ahl performers that did work out in the nhl. But has a lack of ahl success at the forward position EVER led to success at the nhl level in the last 20~ years? I saw yanni gourde had 2 subpar pro seasons before picking it up massively in year 3. He’s the exception, and for senyshyn to join that party of 1, he needs to have a great year 3

certainly its a lot easier to see hope when they do have success all the way through. guys like bobby orr, wayne gretzky, conor McDavid didnt struggle at any level

but then you hear stories like Michael Jordan being cut from his high school football team. you see guys like martin st louis get waived in the nhl at age 25. mike Knuble was 27 when boston got him... he had 14 points in 59 games the season before we picked him up

as a 28 year old he had 20 points in 82 games for us

at 28 years old... he was still a 4th liner in the nhl…

Knuble had 8 straight seasons of at least 24 goals after he turned 28

its not common... and its easier to see hope when they are tearing up the lower leagues... but sometimes big forwards are slow to find their A game. from frank maholovitch to john leclair and right through mike Knuble it happens

some like landon Wilson or lee goren never pan out... but it takes time to make that judgement
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
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Edmonton Canada
Why are people so hellbent on comparing Zach Senyshyn to other players, other situations, etc. etc.?? He's not Brandon Bochenski. He's not Jared Knight. His situation is completely different to them. Just let the ****ing kid be him, and hope he continues to develop and have success in the NHL. Really, you'd think some here want this kid to fail so they can do the pound their chest and do the ol' "LOOK AT ME HFBOARDS!!! I WAS RIGHT ON DA PLAYAH!!! I SAID HE SUCKED AND WOULD BUST!!! I WAS RIGHT!! COME KISS MY ASS!!"

its hard to find perfect matches but those that dont learn from history are certainly doomed to repeat it.

some players skate fast and succeed... some dont
some players have a hard shot and succeed... some done
some guys are very smart... some work hard
sometimes they succeed... sometimes they dont
big guys have an advantage over small guys but lots of big guys fail
some small guys succeed

you might freak out at people who try to 'scout' and 'predict' potential success of future players but its a thing. teams are forced to try their best to do it. history is one of the better indicators of the future. its a tool that people try to use
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
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According to HF Bruins, Knight "getting screwed" by every coach, ever had more to do with his lack of success as a professional. USA Hockey staff, our own Bruce Cassidy, all the Hunters and likely his pee wee coach all allegedly screwed him over, causing him not to be invited to the combine, not getting first line minutes in juniors, not being developed properly in Providence and, finally, not being invited to try out for Team USA.

Little of that was heard from Knight himself, of course. It is far easier to indulge in fantasy than believe others view one of the Bruins' draftees in a lesser light that we would have hoped.

You have a few things wrong here.

The Hunters liked Knight and lured him away from the US Dev Program after he had committed to them as a teen. There was a battle over his rights and USA Hockey no doubt black-balled him after that, which while unfair, is somewhat understandable. At the time, the US was known to hold grudges against players that went the Canadian Junior route rather than stay with the US Dev program and college. Knight was far from the only one to experience this, so I’m not sure what your point is.

He was a solid all-around player for London and better defensively than some of the other guys, which was likely largely responsible for them deploying him in a more defensive role. However, it was also fact that he had already been drafted and that is the “job” of a Junior team to get as many of their guys drafted as possible. The reason that players elect to play for a high-profile team like London is linked to their ability to get their players noticed and drafted. I don’t think it’s some sort of conspiracy theory level thinking to suggest that a Junior team would put an undrafted player in a position to score points and get drafted. It’s good for the player and good for the team.

Every coach has favorites. Hell, I had favorites coaching my kid’s teams. Anybody that says otherwise is lying. I totally believe that Knight was not one of Cassidy’s “favorites”. That may very well have stemmed from the fact that Knight couldn’t stay healthy. Maybe Cassidy felt he couldn’t trust him in a key role because he was always dinged up or recovering from something? A coach isn’t going to hitch his cart to a guy that can’t stay in the lineup.

I do know that a lot of Knight’s issues early on went back to him coming back early from a high ankle sprain and playing hurt so he could help the team in the Memorial Cup. It led to him changing his skating stride and some subsequent hamstring problems.

All of this is spilled milk and I’m not sure what it has to do with Senyshyn? I see very little in the way of similarities between the two players, other than them not developing the way (or as quickly as) fans hoped.
 

since76

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Jul 14, 2005
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This is pure stupidity. You are trying to compare to players on points rather than the more important parts like play style or position which aren't the same at all.

You do know that Ottawa wanted him at 18.
They can have him now for much much less ))))))
 

Dr Hook

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Prospects “bust” all the time.

Not sure I would write Andersson off yet. He’s only 20 and has decent AHL production despite being up and down a couple of times.

The definition of bust seem to have changed over the years. People want players to step right into the NHL at 18 and make an impact, as though that is normal. To me a bust is a high round pick who at age 25 has either never stuck in the NHL after multiple AHL seasons, or been with the team for 3 seasons or so and not developed past 4th line minutes. That is my general definition, along with guys that get waived and go to Europe or something before then. No patience with prospects anymore for some. Maybe it's the salary cap in part- if you are going to pay your best player 8 mil and up, you have to have cheap ELC guys to play. Fewer long development times are acceptable I guess. It's kind of a bummer. I wonder how many guys might have made it given the patience that teams showed in past eras.
 
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ODAAT

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Oct 17, 2006
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I don't know where to put this as he's not a Bruins prospect (just interest), but good grief :eek::eek:



I have to wonder why all 31 teams have passed on this kid over the years? I haven`t seen him play 1 second so I certainly can`t comment on him. Hope maybe Dom or one of our Hf friend`s here who get to see him play could chime in.

Can`t help but love the size, clearly he has some hands, wondering if his skating is an issue or some other glaring issue with part of his game which left him undrafted?
 

bob27

Grzelcyk is a top pairing defenceman
Apr 2, 2015
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I don't know where to put this as he's not a Bruins prospect (just interest), but good grief :eek::eek:



My first instinct is that he's like an adult playing against children, 21 year old with a massive physical edge over pretty much everyone in that league. That said, always happy to add prospects without giving up any assets.
 
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