Proposal: Bruins Off-Season Talk

[GloryDaze4877]

Carlo had a great year but I could look ok next to Chara. In my mind Carlo is available for the right return. Give Chara some credit for Carlos stock value.

You could say Chara had his best year last year. Mentoring while remaining a top 2 Dman is something! He's an organizational beast!

Future coach I hope

Can't measure impact on youth players. You missed the point

Listed above are your posts.

First, you said that Carlo had a great year, but then you say you would look ok next to Chara (which I doubt) and that Carlo is available. I took that to mean that Carlo is overrated and that Chara makes him look good. I think that the reverse is just as/more true and that Carlo is largely responsible for how good Chara was last year.

Then you said that Chara "had his best year last year", that he's a great mentor and organizational beast (not sure what that is?), and he should coach. I don't think last year was anywhere near Chara's best season, but think that he is a good mentor and want him to play with McAvoy this coming season. I really have no opinion on his status as an organizational beast or future coach.

I'm not sure what I'm missing?

 

[BadBruins]

I offered DeBrusk and a 2nd for Kane at 2.6 million (50%) retained.

I really like Kane. Probably the minority. I think that's a lot to give for a guy who's averaged 39 points the past two seasons. A guy who only has 1 year left on his current deal. Yeah, he's probably good for 25, if healthy. Maybe more. Giving up those two assets, I want a long term piece. Not a one year rental.

I like the player though. Don't give a damn about the baggage.

 

[8thRoundPick]

I really like Kane. Probably the minority. I think that's a lot to give for a guy who's averaged 39 points the past two seasons. A guy who only has 1 year left on his current deal. Yeah, he's probably good for 25, if healthy. Maybe more. Giving up those two assets, I want a long term piece. Not a one year rental.

I like the player though. Don't give a damn about the baggage.

Well said!

 

[pkunit]

Listed above are your posts.

First, you said that Carlo had a great year, but then you say you would look ok next to Chara (which I doubt) and that Carlo is available. I took that to mean that Carlo is overrated and that Chara makes him look good. I think that the reverse is just as/more true and that Carlo is largely responsible for how good Chara was last year.

Then you said that Chara "had his best year last year", that he's a great mentor and organizational beast (not sure what that is?), and he should coach. I don't think last year was anywhere near Chara's best season, but think that he is a good mentor and want him to play with McAvoy this coming season. I really have no opinion on his status as an organizational beast or future coach.

I'm not sure what I'm missing?

Me neither. Saying Chara was our best D is like saying Bergy was our best forward. They were, regardless of how good Carlo or Pasta are.

 

[C77]

Any thoughts on expectations for Czarnik and Vatrano this year?

Assuming they don't get traded, are both players in opening night lineup?

I didn't get much of a chance to see Czarnik last year.

For Vatrano I am thinking 20 goals and 15 assists on 3rd line.

 

[bbfan419]

Any thoughts on expectations for Czarnik and Vatrano this year?

Assuming they don't get traded, are both players in opening night lineup?

I didn't get much of a chance to see Czarnik last year.

For Vatrano I am thinking 20 goals and 15 assists on 3rd line.

Barring any trades, I think Vatrano is on the 3rd line and could get 20 goals. Czarnik he is more of a tweener AHL/4th line NHL guy, I think he either sticks as the 13th forward or goes back to the AHL. Something tells me though if there any trades Czarnik is part of it.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Me neither. Saying Chara was our best D is like saying Bergy was our best forward. They were, regardless of how good Carlo or Pasta are.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you originally said, and is not true, but I will bite.

Bergeron may still be at/near the top of his game, but Chara is not. At one time Chara was the best defenseman in the game and could carry pretty much anybody that you paired with him. That is no longer the case and we have seen the last couple of years that when he is paired with a certain type of D (McQ, Miller, or an older Sides) that he's not nearly as effective as he was. Unfortunately, players get old, slow down, and are not as good as they once were.

Chara is still a very effective defensive D-man, but I think for him to be able to function at a high level, he needs to have a partner that can compensate for his shortcomings. At this stage in his career, it absolutely does matter who is paired with Chara and how well they perform. Last year that was Carlo and hopefully it will be McAvoy this season. Chara certainly helped Carlo as a first year player, but he also benefited a great deal from having a big, mobile partner.

If you can't or won't see this, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[DitClapper]

I offered DeBrusk and a 2nd for Kane at 2.6 million (50%) retained.

That's a no from me. I've wanted Kane on the Bruins for years, but that's a tad of an overpayment. I think it starts with Spooner and a prospect like Czarnik or Heinen.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

That's a no from me. I've wanted Kane on the Bruins for years, but that's a tad of an overpayment. I think it starts with Spooner and a prospect like Czarnik or Heinen.

You mean the Heinen that had a better season than DeBrusk in PRO?

The Bruins are trying to develop players and a culture. You can see that with the way they do their Development Camp.

In addition to the fact that he's only got one year left on his deal, I don't see a guy like E Kane being what they are looking for. Also, if he scored 28 goals for BUF and he's as good as some people think, why would the Sabres want to move him?

 

[DKH]

I can't fairly assess Heinen since when I go he grabs first or second star

I'm assuming he must suck other games

 

[C77]

Barring any trades, I think Vatrano is on the 3rd line and could get 20 goals. Czarnik he is more of a tweener AHL/4th line NHL guy, I think he either sticks as the 13th forward or goes back to the AHL. Something tells me though if there any trades Czarnik is part of it.

I only saw Czarnik a little bit and I also have the tweener impression.

Vatrano needs to score a good amount to make his value an overall neutral because he is limited in other aspects of the game. Still room to improve though. Problem is that Spooner is in the same category, if he isn't scoring he hurts the team.

I suppose we'll see how Bjork adapts to the pro game. Maybe a few GM's like Sweeney are waiting for the RFA cap numbers to come in before moving players, but I still think there needs to be some kind of upgrade to the forward group from outside the organization.....hopefully by moving one of the right side d-men packaged with a couple of spare parts.

I would love to see Cassidy be able to have the stacked line of Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak without being left with marginal NHL talent on the 3rd line.

Sweeney said it "we need to be a deeper and more talented team". Well time to put up.

 

[KrejciMVP]

You mean the Heinen that had a better season than DeBrusk in PRO?

The Bruins are trying to develop players and a culture. You can see that with the way they do their Development Camp.

In addition to the fact that he's only got one year left on his deal, I don't see a guy like E Kane being what they are looking for. Also, if he scored 28 goals for BUF and he's as good as some people think, why would the Sabres want to move him?

Develop a culture. What? We are the big bad Bruins always will be. All Teams in all sports have been drafting for years. Nothing new

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Develop a culture. What? We are the big bad Bruins always will be. All Teams in all sports have been drafting for years. Nothing new

If you don't see what GD is talking about when it comes to a developing culture in Boston, you're putting your head in the sand.

It was clear from Don's first draft what he wanted to establish and what he felt was lacking before he was promoted. His efforts in this area have been one of the biggest positives of his tenure thus far.

 

[KrejciMVP]

If you don't see what GD is talking about when it comes to a developing culture in Boston, you're putting your head in the sand.

It was clear from Don's first draft what he wanted to establish and what he felt was lacking before he was promoted. His efforts in this area have been one of the biggest positives of his tenure thus far.

I don't see how Don's vision is different from any other GM. Make a draft pick, hope he turns out well, sign a FA hope he pans out. Don is not some Socrates of hockey development lol
I also think fans think they know Don's vision of building a team by putting their own vision and saying its Don's vision. If I sound a bit frustrated, I am, had a overdose reading posts making AHL players seem like superstars.

 

[BadBruins]

Any thoughts on expectations for Czarnik and Vatrano this year?

Assuming they don't get traded, are both players in opening night lineup?

I didn't get much of a chance to see Czarnik last year.

For Vatrano I am thinking 20 goals and 15 assists on 3rd line.

Kind of the forgotten names with all the shiny new prospects making headlines.

I thought Czarnik was looking like NHL player coming of camp last year. A lot of time spent of the 4th line with limited players. Not sure it was optimal. His NHL niche might be as a bottom-6 scorer, so he might have to make it work. Mature college player. Not sure there's much room to grow in Providence. I pegged him at least as a versatile 13th forward. Then they went ahead and signed Agostino and re-upped Schaller.

Vatrano I don't get why so many are down on. That might not be totally accurate, but it seems like he not getting much love. Personally, I think he should be a candidate for Bergeron's RW. I think he plays at a similar tempo and it might give him a little extra time and space to get that shot off. Spread the wealth out and move Pastrnak with Krejci full time. Find a skilled wing for those two. Not a meat and potatoes guy like Beleskey.

Marchand-Bergeron-______
______-Krejci-Pastrnak
______-Backes-______

That's how I think it should break down. Although for whatever reason the org seems to view Backes as a winger.

 

[TwineTickler]

Kind of the forgotten names with all the shiny new prospects making headlines.

I thought Czarnik was looking like NHL player coming of camp last year. A lot of time spent of the 4th line with limited players. Not sure it was optimal. His NHL niche might be as a bottom-6 scorer, so he might have to make it work. Mature college player. Not sure there's much room to grow in Providence. I pegged him at least as a versatile 13th forward. Then they went ahead and signed Agostino and re-upped Schaller.

Vatrano I don't get why so many are down on. That might not be totally accurate, but it seems like he not getting much love. Personally, I think he should be a candidate for Bergeron's RW. I think he plays at a similar tempo and it might give him a little extra time and space to get that shot off. Spread the wealth out and move Pastrnak with Krejci full time. Find a skilled wing for those two. Not a meat and potatoes guy like Beleskey.

Marchand-Bergeron-______
______-Krejci-Pastrnak
______-Backes-______

That's how I think it should break down. Although for whatever reason the org seems to view Backes as a winger.

To follow up on this, just posted in the DC thread about Cassidy potentially dropping some hints about what they are thinking. Seems like the "hope" is something like this:

March-Berg-kid
Kid-Krejci-Pasta
??-JFK-Backes

and again, this is just based off the presser Cassidy had this morning and the things he said during it. Could be nothing but could be something. Also, as for people being down on Vatrano and no talk of Czarnik, it's just that the Bruins have SOOOO many young forwards who are pushing for work. It's kind of crazy, which is one reason why I think Spoons is definitely getting moved. Aside from the guy we assume will be on the NHL roster which would be March, Berg, Krech, Pasta, Backes, Beleskey, Nash, (Spooner if not traded) you have all these guys battling for spots:

Agostino (1 way deal)
Schaller (I believe 1 way deal)
Noel
Kuraly
Vatrano
Czarnik
Debrusk
Heinen
Cehlarik
Bjork
Senyshyn
Blidh
JFK
Gabrielle

I mean that's quite a list. Certainly some more "ready" than others but there is a lot of talent there which is the reason why Vatrano isn't necessarily "guaranteed" a spot, and why Czarnik doesn't even get mentioned much. Training camp this year is going to be extremely interesting.

 

[EverettMike]

Start a new thread, this is going somewhere good.

 

[bbfan419]

I only saw Czarnik a little bit and I also have the tweener impression.

Vatrano needs to score a good amount to make his value an overall neutral because he is limited in other aspects of the game. Still room to improve though. Problem is that Spooner is in the same category, if he isn't scoring he hurts the team.

I suppose we'll see how Bjork adapts to the pro game. Maybe a few GM's like Sweeney are waiting for the RFA cap numbers to come in before moving players, but I still think there needs to be some kind of upgrade to the forward group from outside the organization.....hopefully by moving one of the right side d-men packaged with a couple of spare parts.

I would love to see Cassidy be able to have the stacked line of Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak without being left with marginal NHL talent on the 3rd line.

Sweeney said it "we need to be a deeper and more talented team". Well time to put up.

Pretty much have to agree with all this. Czarnik to me he gets traded as part of a deal for a top 6 forward or a good 3rd line center. JFK needs at least a year, maybe even 2 in the AHL before he will be ready to Center the 3rd line. We definitely need a deeper forward group, this is why I hope we can trade Beleskey in any deal as the salary going back for a top 6 guy, so if the B's do get say Duchene, then Beleskey has to go the other way. I would like to trade Backes as well f we could get a pretty good D or maybe 3rd line C, but he has to waive first and the salary may be hard to move. Vatrano I think makes the team, but could be moved during the year if some of the kids push hard for a spot.

 

[C77]

Kind of the forgotten names with all the shiny new prospects making headlines.

I thought Czarnik was looking like NHL player coming of camp last year. A lot of time spent of the 4th line with limited players. Not sure it was optimal. His NHL niche might be as a bottom-6 scorer, so he might have to make it work. Mature college player. Not sure there's much room to grow in Providence. I pegged him at least as a versatile 13th forward. Then they went ahead and signed Agostino and re-upped Schaller.

Vatrano I don't get why so many are down on. That might not be totally accurate, but it seems like he not getting much love. Personally, I think he should be a candidate for Bergeron's RW. I think he plays at a similar tempo and it might give him a little extra time and space to get that shot off. Spread the wealth out and move Pastrnak with Krejci full time. Find a skilled wing for those two. Not a meat and potatoes guy like Beleskey.

Marchand-Bergeron-______
______-Krejci-Pastrnak
______-Backes-______

That's how I think it should break down. Although for whatever reason the org seems to view Backes as a winger.

I also kind of saw Czarnik as the 13th guy to fill in if necessary for Spooner or Nash but as you note, players like Schaller, Acciari, and Agostino tend to preclude Czarnik's spot on the roster.

Overall, in general roster construction, I think the Bruins need more "presence" at the center position, whether that means a speedy higher-level scoring forward like Duchene or a heavier steal your lunch money 3rd line center, which in theory, as you write, we might already have in Backes. I don't have anything against Spooner as 3rd line center provided that Krejci is not the 2nd line center.

I would lean toward Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak together so the kid is on the line that is going to dominate possession. If not Pastrnak, then Vatrano should go with Bergeron and Marchand.

Problem is if you stack the first line with Marchand, Bergeron, and Pastrnak, then the 2nd line almost inevitably is going to be some combination of Krejci - Backes which lacks footspeed. At the same I don't like Pastrnak with Krejci very much because I want to maximize Pastrnak's scoring chances.

In my opinion, Sweeney needs to optimize the group of forwards. There are several good pieces but the unit as a whole is less than the sum of its parts.

 

[Gee Wally]

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