Brouwer and McGinn getting PTO chance with Blues

[execwrite1]

Both signings would be positives if they have anything left and it sounds like both Brouwer and McGinn can help this team this year.

There's a time to throw kids who aren't ready onto the NHL ice and let them make mistakes and there's a time to get veterans who won't cost your team goals with mistakes.

This team is trying to win another Cup. It's veteran time in St. Louis. Kyrou and Kostin are still babies - more time in the AHL is not going to stunt their growth.

Perhaps Berube and Armstrong know what they're doing.

 

[Renard]

I mean, if we're cool with retreads that are currently out of the league, why not Jaskin? At least he can defend.

He is too slow.

 

[execwrite1]

A third line of McGinn-Bozak-Brouwer could be effective.

Leaves Blais and Sanford to fight for the second line LW and Thomas on the first line RW.

That makes five kids out of a 12-man forward corps. Good balance between youth and vets.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I like some competition for Sanford on that third line.

 

[SwivelSchwartz]

I know it's a joke, but Brett Hull looked really really bad in the winter classic alumni game. Like, really really bad.

OT, but I found it funny that Gretzky looked like the worst player on the ice then.

 

[67Blues]

We are offensively challenged but we are looking at bringing in 20-25 point veterans. I guess I just don't get the move. Then again, this could all be a big nothing burger as Army is worried that we have another long term injury and at least he has some players on his speed dial. We'll know more in 8 days I guess.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Unbelievable how no one appreciates getting a guy like Brouwer back. WTF is it people with speed? We just won the Cup without speed. How fast is slow ass Maroon? Even I thought he’d be a misfit in Tampa but he’s fitting in fine over there.

What drives the Blues offensive attack is their defense. It’s the best D in the NHL. It’s big, it’s mobile and it scores points. The forwards do well because of our defense. The defense drives this team. Give our forwards an average defense and we’d suck.

The Blues play their best when they stay tight in 5 man units and take away the middle of the ice. Berube just said the other day we play as a team and we play for each other. Brouwer fits in just fine and he makes the Blues even heavier.

Brouwer is a great addition. He can still bury his chances. The guy has a great wrist shot. Played a 4th line role on FLA last year and scored 12 goals with 177 hits. And yes, Brouwer can still skate.

This is a great addition IMO.

Brouwer is bad though. He’s not effective anymore.

 

[Stealth JD]

UGH. Brouwer and McGinn.... so Army's shopping at Mozeliak's low-hanging-fruit tree now.

This isn't hanging, however. This is the rotten and stepped on fruit that's laying on the ground after the farmer's market has packed-up and departed.

 

[bradrich99]

Last year Brouwer had 12 goals and 177 hits playing in a limited minute 4th line role. Not sure if he can replicate those numbers but if so I will take that every day.

 

[Oberyn]

Think I'd rather have just called up Nolan. He's got a lot of experience from his LA days and it opens up a spot in SA for one of our prospects to get more minutes.

 

[STL BLUES]

Think I'd rather have just called up Nolan. He's got a lot of experience from his LA days and it opens up a spot in SA for one of our prospects to get more minutes.

I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of what is possible. But, could Brouwer and or McGinn be SA bound so we don’t short change SA so we then could bring up SA youth players? Nothing ventured nothing gained if Brouwer and or McGinn makes it back to the NHL. Just asking a question here....

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

These are nothing signings, IMO, and they cost us nothing. The only thing of interest here is the illumination we get as to where Armstrong's mind is at.

Armstrong has to be feeling a lot of pressure to win right now, and to make moves that bolster the team's immediate chances...even if that potentially comes at a long term cost (not that there's one here). Some of that might be due to the pressure of trying to defend a title. Pietrangelo remaining in limbo might be exacerbating that as well.

On the other hand, it's not like we haven't heard/seen that sort of thing from him before this year. Armstrong has always struck me as someone who is a bit more on the conservative side when it comes to the risk/reward of experience vs youth, and I think circumstances are pushing him a bit further in that direction this year than normal. Perhaps understandably so.

That said, it's really hard to get your young developing players NHL experience if you don't want to play them when there is an opportunity because they don't have experience. You can't avoid "growing pains" simply by avoiding youth. All teams (and players) have struggles of one form or another that they need to work through regardless of age/experience. You're doing your organization a disservice if you're neglecting your youth.

It's going to be interesting to watch Armstrong try to walk that tightrope now that the stakes have been raised.

Do you think the PTOs are partly just a way to send a positive message to the current roster that he’s going to invest in this season? It didn’t sound like Armstrong expects much to pan out here.

‘Regarding the inexperienced players comment, he said “next injury”. I take it that he’s probably already forecasting Kyrou on the roster in a while and not wanting the NEXT injury fill-in to also be an NHL rookie. In other words, the PTOs are actually an endorsement of his plan to bring in a young player soon, and a desire to insulate that guy a bit. We saw the opposite last year where there was a critical mass of young guys who couldn’t untap their potential, when Kyrou and Thomas were both up, among others.

I think finding a veteran spare forward is the plan to make Kyrou’s addition more likely to succeed.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

This just seems dumb to me if they ever get in the lineup.

Give the kids the opportunity to get that experience Army loves. We are in a situation where we can afford to play Kostin for a few games to give him the taste he needs.

But I guess it is beneficial to have hard working, warm bodied vets for practice.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Do you think the PTOs are partly just a way to send a positive message to the current roster that he’s going to invest in this season? It didn’t sound like Armstrong expects much to pan out here.

I feel like he already did that by trading for and signing Justin Faulk. That was a pretty clear message that one Cup wasn't enough.

The commitment from the front office has been there. There's nothing more Doug can do. The roster is proven Stanley Cup caliber.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

This just seems dumb to me if they ever get in the lineup.

Give the kids the opportunity to get that experience Army loves. We are in a situation where we can afford to play Kostin for a few games to give him the taste he needs.

But I guess it is beneficial to have hard working, warm bodied vets for practice.

I can see these points, but lean way more toward another poster’s comments that the prospects need a wake up call/fire lit under their asses.

These PTOs are also, imo, about that very motivation. If Kyrou/Kostin/whoever else gets all butt hurt over this, then we don’t need them anyway.

Especially Kostin.

Kyrou is already producing at a nice rate.

 

[Xerloris]

I say let Doug do what Doug wants. Like 99% of us would have made stupid ass moves last year and we would still have no cup.

On top of that McGinn is also apparently here because ROR requested he be given a chance. You gonna tell ROR that you know better than he does? I think not.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I say let Doug do what Doug wants. Like 99% of us would have made stupid ass moves last year and we would still have no cup.

On top of that McGinn is also apparently here because ROR requested he be given a chance. You gonna tell ROR that you know better than he does? I think not.

Source for this? If it’s true about O’Reilly, I like that the players have input with things like this. A PTO doesn’t cost much, and can be good for team morale in some ways.

 

[BlueDream]

Source for this? If it’s true about O’Reilly, I like that the players have input with things like this. A PTO doesn’t cost much, and can be good for team morale in some ways.

I think Korac wrote that ROR mentioned McGinn to Armstrong. Didn’t really provide much detail so I don’t know how that came about, but I’m assuming Armstrong probably asked the vet leaders if they knew anyone who could help.

 

[Xerloris]

Source for this? If it’s true about O’Reilly, I like that the players have input with things like this. A PTO doesn’t cost much, and can be good for team morale in some ways.

In The Slot

 

[Majorityof1]

I say let Doug do what Doug wants. Like 99% of us would have made stupid ass moves last year and we would still have no cup.

On top of that McGinn is also apparently here because ROR requested he be given a chance. You gonna tell ROR that you know better than he does? I think not.

That's reading a little too much into what the article says. All the article said was that ROR and Army discussed adding McGinn. It doesn't say that ROR approached Army with the request. It very well be Army already targeting MCGinn and asking ROR for his read as they were teammates.

If I am GM of a team, absolutely, 100%, every time I make it clear in a nice way that I know how to be a GM more than he does. Army is the GM, the boss, and ROR is a player, the employee. You listen to your employees input but you don't let them unilaterally dictate your policy. What if Pietrangelo says we should sign Iginla from his Team Canada days, RoR wants McGinn, Schwartzy wants to bring back Brouwer, Vladdy from PTO wants some washed out Russian, etc, etc, etc. You end up with a dozen PTOs because you can't tell your best players you know more than they do.

 

[BlueDream]

That's reading a little too much into what the article says. All the article said was that ROR and Army discussed adding McGinn. It doesn't say that ROR approached Army with the request. It very well be Army already targeting MCGinn and asking ROR for his read as they were teammates.

If I am GM of a team, absolutely, 100%, every time I make it clear in a nice way that I know how to be a GM more than he does. Army is the GM, the boss, and ROR is a player, the employee. You listen to your employees input but you don't let them unilaterally dictate your policy. What if Pietrangelo says we should sign Iginla from his Team Canada days, RoR wants McGinn, Schwartzy wants to bring back Brouwer, Vladdy from PTO wants some washed out Russian, etc, etc, etc. You end up with a dozen PTOs because you can't tell your best players you know more than they do.

Yeah but if we used that logic, then we would have never signed Joakim Lindstrom. And as a result - yes - we very well may have never won the Cup.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Do you think the PTOs are partly just a way to send a positive message to the current roster that he’s going to invest in this season? It didn’t sound like Armstrong expects much to pan out here.

‘Regarding the inexperienced players comment, he said “next injury”. I take it that he’s probably already forecasting Kyrou on the roster in a while and not wanting the NEXT injury fill-in to also be an NHL rookie. In other words, the PTOs are actually an endorsement of his plan to bring in a young player soon, and a desire to insulate that guy a bit. We saw the opposite last year where there was a critical mass of young guys who couldn’t untap their potential, when Kyrou and Thomas were both up, among others.

I think finding a veteran spare forward is the plan to make Kyrou’s addition more likely to succeed.

There may be a bit of that (letting the team know he's actively exploring all the potential avenues for help), although I'm sure that the players on the team itself are just as aware as we are that this is a low cost/low reward move that's unlikely to impact the roster in any significant way. It's the roster management equivalent of receiving a trite platitude from your supervisor when there's a really ****** situation at work. It's nice he that recognizes that the situation sucks and that you need a pick-me-up, but you still recognize it for the relatively empty gesture that it is and know it doesn't really change anything, however well-intentioned it might be.

I think it's more for Berube than anything. I don't think Berube wants to deal with breaking in someone right now. Specifically, I think Berube wants an effective bottom six (defensively responsible, tough to play against, chip in some offense) that he can set and forget while trying to piece together an effective top six combination from what's currently on the roster. Our best call-up options aren't really bottom six guys, and I don't think playing talented guys like Kyrou on the 4th line is an effective way to transition them to the NHL, anyway, either for him personally or the team as a whole...hence the trade for someone like JDLR and some cheap dumpster diving.

From that perspective, I could see how this might be construed an attempt to make a more successful transition for Kyrou down the road (by trying not to force Kyrou into a role he's not really suited for, or by delaying the call-up if they think he needs a bit more AHL time to get his legs before jumping up to the NHL), but I don't think Kyrou should be in direct competition with these players for a slot or that their "veteran presence" might somehow stabilize the locker room and improve Kyrou's transition that way.

If another top 6 guy goes down, it kind of forces your hand to try to fill that gap with some of the internal talent that you have. You can only sustain the loss of so much talent before you're forced to take a risk on different talent. I seriously doubt that either Armstrong or Berube will be happy about giving Kyrou that chance should the need arise, though, regardless of what either might be saying right now.

 

[Brian39]

You've got it backwards - a 1 way deal pays the same amount in the NHL/AHL. Two way deals pay vary depending on the league played in.

Yup, just a brain fart switching the terms.

Most PTO guys are given a 2 way deal, not a 1 way deal.

 

[Xerloris]

That's reading a little too much into what the article says. All the article said was that ROR and Army discussed adding McGinn. It doesn't say that ROR approached Army with the request. It very well be Army already targeting MCGinn and asking ROR for his read as they were teammates.

If I am GM of a team, absolutely, 100%, every time I make it clear in a nice way that I know how to be a GM more than he does. Army is the GM, the boss, and ROR is a player, the employee. You listen to your employees input but you don't let them unilaterally dictate your policy. What if Pietrangelo says we should sign Iginla from his Team Canada days, RoR wants McGinn, Schwartzy wants to bring back Brouwer, Vladdy from PTO wants some washed out Russian, etc, etc, etc. You end up with a dozen PTOs because you can't tell your best players you know more than they do.

Remember when Tarasenko tried to get the team to sign Panarin and Hitch and Armstrong ignored him? Ya I remember. So grats on being the GM that does shit like that.

In The Slot: McGinn's ties to Blues center help him land tryout in St. Louis


Very specific quote from said article.

McGinn, who most recently was with the Florida Panthers (along with Brouwer) last season, was skating and working out in Toronto after playing in two games for Carolina's AHL team, the Charlotte Checkers. He and O'Reilly spoke, the former connected McGinn with Armstrong and a mutual agreement was made.

 

[mk80]

I’m trying to make sense of Army’s comments and getting nowhere.

Tarasenko out for the season, Steen out for 4 weeks, Fabbri traded for a 4th line guy when there’s already plenty of 4th line depth... If this entire combination doesn’t warrant a call up,, what does??

I just don’t believe what he’s selling.

“We want to respect the league”. What???

The entire roster minus Faulk and DLR just won the Cup. If they call up an AHL player the entire roster would consist of one rookie???

I don’t believe him but I also can’t figure out why he’s saying what he is. Is he trying to keep more control of a player by not burning a year of eligibility??? Is there some weirdness with Steen happening??? Does Berube not want anyone from the AHL called up???

I don’t get it

Yeah, it's pretty dumb.

On one hand, he talks about how veteran teams avoid growing pains that younger teams have but look at the LA Kings. They are too old just like Brouwer and McGinn. He also has mentioned before how the NHL is a "young man's game" and now mentions these growing pains. How does 1 rookie even make that much of a difference anyways? I am not saying that he should bring up Kostin because I think having just 1 more year of the AHL under his belt would be better, but why is he being so uptight right now? The Blues are also 12-3-3 currently and sit on top of the Western Conference. It's not like we are battling for a wild card spot right now. Bring up Nathan Walker or just play this one out for 4 more weeks until Steen comes back...

I thought his comments were very interesting, he seems to be talking with two different faces in this situation. I'm thinking there's more complexity to the situation than has been said, a "method to the madness" for lack of better terms.