Brooks: NHLPA to make new proposal

[NYRangers]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/35272.htm

The proposal, which likely will be presented within the first two weeks of December, is expected to feature an increase in salary rollback — i.e., a player contract tax of up to twice the original offer of five percent; more meaningful payroll tax rates starting at lower club thresholds, and an offer to negotiate substantive changes to inflationary systemic triggers such as salary arbitration.

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[Verbal Kint*]

Its Larry ****ing Brooks, I would put too much weight into it.

 

[thinkwild]

Lets hope Larry is right. He is one of the few who usually is on this subject.

He brings up a funny point. The NHL constitution says the NHL is an association that is supposed to be not for profit. So maybe let the league, that is losing somewhere between $90mil and $250mil, depending on how you account for revenues, set all salaries centrally with a salary cap, and then run as its charter states - not for profit.

That would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Oilers Ent]

Its Larry ****ing Brooks, I would put too much weight into it.

 

[Speed Demon]

Never really completely understood the article, but are we looking at the possibility of a season?

 

[DW3]

Never really completely understood the article, but are we looking at the possibility of a season?

We just passed Thanksgiving and fast aproaching Christmas. While I haven't heard anyone set a drop dead date yet, common sense tells us that if nothing in place by New Year's at the very, very latest, then we're not looking at a season at all. Ax with most of the professional sports strikes, things tend to start moving and shaking a lot faster the closer to the cancelation date you get.

 

[struckmatch]

A season has less than a 10 percent chance of happening IMO. This would be a good starting point to negotiate from, but thats all it would be, a starting point. If the PA does offer up a proposal like this, I'd applaud them for finally making a significant concession.

I'd love to, as of course we would all love to, see a season this year of any sort, however I just don't think there is enough time, and thats being based on the hope that this rumor of a new proposal is actually true, and not just fodder.

 

[doc5hole]

The Bruins, at least, are letting out the FleetCenter 45 days in advance. The 1994 lockout resulted in a start date of Jan. 22, 1995, for Boston. They got in 48 games and finished on May 3.

Therefore, the math would seem to require season-saving action off of this week's meetings. Thus the PA proposal reported by Larry - whether it happens, it makes sense timing-wise.

I wouldn't hold my breath, but this is it.

 

[Pepper]

Brooks is so close to NHLPA that the new proposal must be true, let's hope so.

Did anyone notice he said "more meaningful payroll tax rates starting at lower club thresholds"??

Isn't that kinda like an admission that the payroll tax rates in the first proposal were not very meaningfull, i.e. ineffective despite NHLPA claiming otherwise?

Anyway, Brooks continues his pro-NHLPA/anti-NHL crusade and offers his extremely biased view which should not be taken seriously, he has been doing pro-NHLPA PR for months now and that article could have been copied from some NHLPA website or something.

 

[SENSible1*]

Having Brooks as the lone media spokesperson for the NHLPA's cause says it all.

 

[Pepper]

Yes, NHLPA had no options after Al Strachan went missing and Bruce Garrioch was hired by Tim Horton's...

 

[RangerBoy]

Gary Bettman and his cronies think the hard salary cap is the salvation for the league.What happens if a team does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players?They point to the NFL cap as the ideal model.Well it's not.What happens when Ottawa does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players in the future?Who are they going to blame?Look at the New York Jets.After many years of bad football and the team is starting to come around,they have a problem on their hands of having too many good players but not enough cap room.A hard cap creates parity and socialism.Look at the Colts this off-season.Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James will both be free agents.They can not afford to keep both players plus pay Peyton Manning and put the rest of the team on the field.Either Harrison or James will not be a Colt next season.The Jets spent a fortune to lock up Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis.They still have many key members of the team entering free agency:John Abraham,Jason Ferguson,Kareem McKenzie and Lamont Jordan.Look at the Steelers and how many players they have lost in free agency due to the cap.The NFL style hard cap punishes the teams which draft well.Larry Brooks has been trying to make that point but the knuckleheads can not grasp that concept

 

[Bruwinz37]

Lets hope Larry is right. He is one of the few who usually is on this subject.

He brings up a funny point. The NHL constitution says the NHL is an association that is supposed to be not for profit. So maybe let the league, that is losing somewhere between $90mil and $250mil, depending on how you account for revenues, set all salaries centrally with a salary cap, and then run as its charter states - not for profit.

That would solve a lot of problems.

Either you know as little about working *with* not for profits as Brooks does or you are both purposely taking it out of context to further your agendas. I guess A for you and B for him. Just because the NHL is run not for profit it does not mean that the individual teams set up their own businesses this way. In the end the NHL does not need to turn a profit, but that is a big, big difference from individual teams running themselves that way.

 

[SENSible1*]

Gary Bettman and his cronies think the hard salary cap is the salvation for the league.What happens if a team does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players?They point to the NFL cap as the ideal model.Well it's not.What happens when Ottawa does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players in the future?Who are they going to blame?Look at the New York Jets.After many years of bad football and the team is starting to come around,they have a problem on their hands of having too many good players but not enough cap room.A hard cap creates parity and socialism.Look at the Colts this off-season.Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James will both be free agents.They can not afford to keep both players plus pay Peyton Manning and put the rest of the team on the field.Either Harrison or James will not be a Colt next season.The Jets spent a fortune to lock up Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis.They still have many key members of the team entering free agency:John Abraham,Jason Ferguson,Kareem McKenzie and Lamont Jordan.Look at the Steelers and how many players they have lost in free agency due to the cap.The NFL style hard cap punishes the teams which draft well.Larry Brooks has been trying to make that point but the knuckleheads can not grasp that concept

Knuckleheads can not grasp the fact that the NHL is quite willing to go with a "NBA-style" soft cap that allows teams to spend more on the players they develop and like to pretend that the owners have offered no flexibility in the form "cost certainty" will take.

 

[Bruwinz37]

Gary Bettman and his cronies think the hard salary cap is the salvation for the league.What happens if a team does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players?They point to the NFL cap as the ideal model.Well it's not.What happens when Ottawa does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players in the future?Who are they going to blame?Look at the New York Jets.After many years of bad football and the team is starting to come around,they have a problem on their hands of having too many good players but not enough cap room.A hard cap creates parity and socialism.Look at the Colts this off-season.Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James will both be free agents.They can not afford to keep both players plus pay Peyton Manning and put the rest of the team on the field.Either Harrison or James will not be a Colt next season.The Jets spent a fortune to lock up Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis.They still have many key members of the team entering free agency:John Abraham,Jason Ferguson,Kareem McKenzie and Lamont Jordan.Look at the Steelers and how many players they have lost in free agency due to the cap.The NFL style hard cap punishes the teams which draft well.Larry Brooks has been trying to make that point but the knuckleheads can not grasp that concept

Well like yourself, Brooks is a Rangers fan. If a cap was implemented that would place a lot of accountability on your team's current front office. If I was a Ranger fan I would not want that either. It would prevent you from spending over each and every mistake. GMs would be forced to be proactive with FAs, find good value for their dollar, and most important, draft and develop your own talent. A salary cap, if managed properly, will never prevent teams from succeeding in any given season...or every given season.

 

[Papadice]

Gary Bettman and his cronies think the hard salary cap is the salvation for the league.What happens if a team does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players?They point to the NFL cap as the ideal model.Well it's not.What happens when Ottawa does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players in the future?Who are they going to blame?Look at the New York Jets.After many years of bad football and the team is starting to come around,they have a problem on their hands of having too many good players but not enough cap room.A hard cap creates parity and socialism.Look at the Colts this off-season.Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James will both be free agents.They can not afford to keep both players plus pay Peyton Manning and put the rest of the team on the field.Either Harrison or James will not be a Colt next season.The Jets spent a fortune to lock up Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis.They still have many key members of the team entering free agency:John Abraham,Jason Ferguson,Kareem McKenzie and Lamont Jordan.Look at the Steelers and how many players they have lost in free agency due to the cap.The NFL style hard cap punishes the teams which draft well.Larry Brooks has been trying to make that point but the knuckleheads can not grasp that concept

I would rather have that system than the current one... The current one results in this:

Team A has tons of money
Team B doesn't....

Team B has a player coming up for free agency and can't afford to pay that player because of their tight financial situation... So they have to trade him to team A, because team A has tons of money and can afford his salary demands... Team A now has a good player, possibly hitting their prime, and has the money to load their team with those type of players... Meanwhile, Team B receives prospects or picks in return for that player and has to start over by developing them again... And once they are developed, they have to trade them again to Team A because they can't afford them... It's a viscious cycle... It's at the point where Team B is pretty much acting as a farm team for Team A, developing their players for them...

At least with a cap it would put Team A and Team B in the same boat financially... Team B might not be able to afford that player under the cap and might have to move him, but Team A, with a cap, might not be able to afford him either... Therefore, the player will likely end up having to sign for less money to fit into someone's salary structure...

Now don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily support a hard cap.. But it's closer to what I'd want to see than anything the players have suggested so far... Myself, I'd want to see a VERY strict luxury tax with some teeth... Make it so that teams CAN go over if they feel they absolutely need to to win the cup, but the tax will be stiff enough that it will financially punish them for it to the point that they won't make a habit out of it...

 

[Papadice]

Although Brooks is an absolute moron and I never believe anything that's written by him, this story might have some credibility... We've been hearing about this NHLPA offer for a couple of weeks now but the NHLPA has been denying it... BUT, Brooks is very much an NHLPA supporter... I cannot see him stating something such as this which is in direct contradiction to the NHLPA's statements, unless there was something to it... I can't see him disagreeing with them and printing an article that realistically is more helpful to the NHL than the NHLPA...

 

[Gator Mike]

What happens if a team does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players?

They have to get rid of some of their players?

What happens when Ottawa does not have enough cap room to keep all of their players in the future?

Ottawa will have to get rid of some of their players, and someone else will get really good?

Look at the New York Jets.After many years of bad football and the team is starting to come around,they have a problem on their hands of having too many good players but not enough cap room.

And yet, a team in the Jets' own division has a chance this year to win their 3rd Super Bowl in four years. Know why? Because the Patriots are smarter than the Jets.

A hard cap creates parity and socialism.

Unlike most businesses, parity is pretty good for a sport. Which major US sports league is in the best shape financially? Which sport has the most parity?

Look at the Colts this off-season.Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James will both be free agents.They can not afford to keep both players plus pay Peyton Manning and put the rest of the team on the field.Either Harrison or James will not be a Colt next season.

So? They Colts are pretty good this year, are they not? Again, look back to the Patriots - they've made tough decisions over the past few years to dump fan favorites because they were making too much money.

It also helps that the Patriots didn't decide to give $98 million to a choking dog of a quarterback.

The Jets spent a fortune to lock up Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis.They still have many key members of the team entering free agency:John Abraham,Jason Ferguson,Kareem McKenzie and Lamont Jordan.

If the Jets have cap problems, it's because they haven't spent wisely.

Look at the Steelers and how many players they have lost in free agency due to the cap.

Remind me, how are the Steelers doing this year?

The NFL style hard cap punishes the teams which draft well.

Wrong. The NFL system REWARDS teams that draft well. The key to success in the NFL is to clearly get "bang for your buck". Valuable players are never more underpaid than when they're just coming into the league.

Again, who's drafted better than the Patriots over the last few years?

Larry Brooks has been trying to make that point but the knuckleheads can not grasp that concept

Larry Brooks IS a knucklehead.

 

[RangerBoy]

I would rather have that system than the current one... The current one results in this:

Team A has tons of money
Team B doesn't....

Team B has a player coming up for free agency and can't afford to pay that player because of their tight financial situation... So they have to trade him to team A, because team A has tons of money and can afford his salary demands... Team A now has a good player, possibly hitting their prime, and has the money to load their team with those type of players... Meanwhile, Team B receives prospects or picks in return for that player and has to start over by developing them again... And once they are developed, they have to trade them again to Team A because they can't afford them... It's a viscious cycle... It's at the point where Team B is pretty much acting as a farm team for Team A, developing their players for them...

At least with a cap it would put Team A and Team B in the same boat financially... Team B might not be able to afford that player under the cap and might have to move him, but Team A, with a cap, might not be able to afford him either... Therefore, the player will likely end up having to sign for less money to fit into someone's salary structure...

Now don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily support a hard cap.. But it's closer to what I'd want to see than anything the players have suggested so far... Myself, I'd want to see a VERY strict luxury tax with some teeth... Make it so that teams CAN go over if they feel they absolutely need to to win the cup, but the tax will be stiff enough that it will financially punish them for it to the point that they won't make a habit out of it...

There is no perfect system but reading those boards you get the impression a hard cap is going to prevent teams from making stupid decisions.I would prefer a hybrid system with a soft cap and luxury tax plus a cap on how much a team is allowed to spend.In example,a payroll can not go over $50 million but the team would pay a luxury tax since they are over the threshold.The luxury tax would be distributed to the lower end payrolls to get them at the threshold

Under the NFL style hard cap of $31 million,a team such as Atlanta might not be able to keep both Dany Heatley and Ilya Kovalchuk in the future plus have enough money to put together a competitive team

 

[RangerBoy]

They have to get rid of some of their players?



Ottawa will have to get rid of some of their players, and someone else will get really good?



And yet, a team in the Jets' own division has a chance this year to win their 3rd Super Bowl in four years. Know why? Because the Patriots are smarter than the Jets.



Unlike most businesses, parity is pretty good for a sport. Which major US sports league is in the best shape financially? Which sport has the most parity?



So? They Colts are pretty good this year, are they not? Again, look back to the Patriots - they've made tough decisions over the past few years to dump fan favorites because they were making too much money.

It also helps that the Patriots didn't decide to give $98 million to a choking dog of a quarterback.



If the Jets have cap problems, it's because they haven't spent wisely.



Remind me, how are the Steelers doing this year?



Wrong. The NFL system REWARDS teams that draft well. The key to success in the NFL is to clearly get "bang for your buck". Valuable players are never more underpaid than when they're just coming into the league.

Again, who's drafted better than the Patriots over the last few years?



Larry Brooks IS a knucklehead.

The Patriots are the best coached team in the NFL but they always get the breaks to go their way.Of course,good teams always get the breaks

The NFL is in great shape because of the tremendous TV contract which the NHL does not have

The Steelers?How many players have they lost over the years?I know they are having a tremendous season.

If you like having teams turn over at 1/3 of their roster every year due to salary,then you like the NFL system

Why is Manning a choking dog?

You guys have gotten very cocky up there

 

[Gator Mike]

The Patriots are the best coached team in the NFL but they always get the breaks to go their way.Of course,good teams always get the breaks

Yeah, the Patriots get all the breaks... like how for the past three weeks, their secondary has consisted of two undrafted free agents and a wide receiver turned cornerback. That's a huge break.

Good teams make their own luck, and they overcome breaks that go against them. People think the Pats get all the breaks because they forget the obstacles they successfully overcame.

The NFL is in great shape because of the tremendous TV contract which the NHL does not have

The NFL has a tremendous TV contract in large part because they have a level playing field in which a team based in Green Bay, Wisconsin has as much chance to be successful as a team based in New York City.

The Steelers?How many players have they lost over the years?

A lot. But I don't think they care much about the players they've lost over the years, because they find a way to overcome those obstacles most years.

If you like having teams turn over at 1/3 of their roster every year due to salary,then you like the NFL system

In the NHL, that's what... six or seven guys a year? That already happens to a lot of teams.

Why is Manning a choking dog?

1999 Playoffs vs. Tennessee - 19 of 43, 227 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 19-16 loss
2000 Playoffs vs. Miami - 17 of 32, 194 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 23-17 loss
2002 Playoffs vs. NY Jets - 14 of 31, 137 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 41-0 loss
2003 Playoffs vs. New England - 23 of 47, 237 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT, 24-14 loss

Totals: 73 of 153 (47%), 795 yards, 2 TD, 6 INT, 0-4

The last four times the Colts have faced a moderately strong defense in the playoffs, Manning has folded like a cheap suit. The next big game he wins against a good team will be his first.

You guys have gotten very cocky up there

At this point, I'd say Patriots fans have a right to be a little cocky.

 

[mooseOAK*]

The Bruins, at least, are letting out the FleetCenter 45 days in advance. The 1994 lockout resulted in a start date of Jan. 22, 1995, for Boston. They got in 48 games and finished on May 3.

Therefore, the math would seem to require season-saving action off of this week's meetings. Thus the PA proposal reported by Larry - whether it happens, it makes sense timing-wise.

I wouldn't hold my breath, but this is it.

Daly said that this ongoing 45 day cancellation wasn't set in stone, they could shorten it if necessary.

 

[Spooner]

The hard cap does force some teams to cut fan favorites, but it also forces teams to sign smart and to have backup plans. It adds a new dynamic to the sport where the owner's mind is more important than his checkbook.

Teams that can properly assess their talent, how much they're paid, how much they're worth, and so on are reworded. Should smarter teams not be rewarded?

 

[xander]

Knuckleheads can not grasp the fact that the NHL is quite willing to go with a "NBA-style" soft cap that allows teams to spend more on the players they develop and like to pretend that the owners have offered no flexibility in the form "cost certainty" will take.

where have you heard this? I've been saying a soft cap is the way to go for a while now, but everything I here points to the NHL only accepting a hard cap.

 

[Papadice]

There is no perfect system but reading those boards you get the impression a hard cap is going to prevent teams from making stupid decisions.I would prefer a hybrid system with a soft cap and luxury tax plus a cap on how much a team is allowed to spend.In example,a payroll can not go over $50 million but the team would pay a luxury tax since they are over the threshold.The luxury tax would be distributed to the lower end payrolls to get them at the threshold

Under the NFL style hard cap of $31 million,a team such as Atlanta might not be able to keep both Dany Heatley and Ilya Kovalchuk in the future plus have enough money to put together a competitive team

Like I said, I don't necessarily support a hard cap either... but I don't support a weak ass luxury tax either... and your idea of a tax at $50 million wouldn't have any bite at all... it's close to useless...