Brodeur overrated
- Thread starter Danny46
- Start date
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
Couldn’t get through it, but it seemed like the vague he-doesn’t-face-shots argument. Could you provide us with a summary, as well as an idea of how he should be ranked for one to respond to whether you may be underrating him? Otherwise we’re not left with much to discuss.
The Panther
Registered User
I don't think he's over-rated. In general, he's rated about right. On this forum, he's probably under-rated if anything.
Last edited:
GMR
Registered User
He's rated correctly on this forum. He's overrated among casual fans who think he's a candidate for #1 overall because of his win totals.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
- 13,511
- 26,971
If you're going to start a thread, don't make us watch a video and say "ME TOO!".
Tell us why your opinion is what it is.
Spot on. I think most would consider him a top 5 guy, but there are a few goalies who have real strong arguments for number 1 and I think it comes down to what each person as an individual values most in a goalie.
For me, I have Hasek as number one because he had an extended period of being the undisputed king of the position, gathering a ton of hardware. I know others place Roy highly because of his playoff performances and I can understand that.
As for guys like Plante, Sawchuk et al. I didn't get to see them play and can't really say just how good they were, so I defer to the more knowledgeable folks on that one.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
I like Brodeur right around #5. In any order you'd like: Sawchuk, Roy, Hasek, Plante............and then Brodeur. Hall comes in 6th for me and then it gets muddier with the rest. But those top 6 I think are a step above the rest of the pack.
Brodeur didn't get the respect he deserved in the first half of his career because the idea was that he was only good because of the defense in New Jersey. In the 2002 Olympics it was Joseph, not Brodeur, who got the start but it was Brodeur who finished it. Only then, when he won Gold did the media start to take more notice and many of us who always thought he was good to start with agreed.
But he did things in two different eras with his team. When he had Stevens in front of him along with a defense of Niedermayer, Daneyko and eventually Rafalski he won. He won three Cups with that core (Rafalski around for two of them). Yet the general idea was that he was right there with Giguere for the Conn Smythe. Some think he got robbed. Did he start winning Vezinas once Hasek retired? Sure, but who wouldn't? That's like saying, well, Jagr only won Art Rosses after Mario retired. Yeah, so?
He still finished 2nd in 1997 and 1998. Finished 4th in Hart voting those years too. Finishes 5th in Hart voting in 2001. He was doing this with that strong defense ahead of him and they weren't picking Stevens. Yet many still were nervous of him on Team Canada in 2002. Go figure. Then he wins a couple Vezinas in 2003 and 2004. Wins the World Cup in 2004. No question about it, he was pretty much generally considered the best goalie in the world.
After the lockout Stevens is gone, Niedermayer is gone. What was left was a good but not great Devils team. Certainly a team more reliant on Brodeur than ever. And he delivered. Two Vezinas in 2007 and 2008, finishing 3rd for the Hart in 2007. His last season for Vezina votes was 2010 where he finished 3rd. Lost the Olympic starting position to Luongo, but still took the Devils on a surprising Cup run in 2012 to the final.
Basically what is the common denominator with these Devils teams? It is Brodeur. He was great with a good defense and great with a weaker defense. Neither time did this franchise ever have the offensive game breaker to help.
He has everything. Cups, hardware, 7 First or 2nd all-star nods which is tied (with Plante) for the most after Hall (11). Longevity, career numbers, Hart finishes, routinely among the best goalies, no doubt the best goalie of the 2000s decade. Honestly, what more do you want?
Brodeur didn't get the respect he deserved in the first half of his career because the idea was that he was only good because of the defense in New Jersey. In the 2002 Olympics it was Joseph, not Brodeur, who got the start but it was Brodeur who finished it. Only then, when he won Gold did the media start to take more notice and many of us who always thought he was good to start with agreed.
But he did things in two different eras with his team. When he had Stevens in front of him along with a defense of Niedermayer, Daneyko and eventually Rafalski he won. He won three Cups with that core (Rafalski around for two of them). Yet the general idea was that he was right there with Giguere for the Conn Smythe. Some think he got robbed. Did he start winning Vezinas once Hasek retired? Sure, but who wouldn't? That's like saying, well, Jagr only won Art Rosses after Mario retired. Yeah, so?
He still finished 2nd in 1997 and 1998. Finished 4th in Hart voting those years too. Finishes 5th in Hart voting in 2001. He was doing this with that strong defense ahead of him and they weren't picking Stevens. Yet many still were nervous of him on Team Canada in 2002. Go figure. Then he wins a couple Vezinas in 2003 and 2004. Wins the World Cup in 2004. No question about it, he was pretty much generally considered the best goalie in the world.
After the lockout Stevens is gone, Niedermayer is gone. What was left was a good but not great Devils team. Certainly a team more reliant on Brodeur than ever. And he delivered. Two Vezinas in 2007 and 2008, finishing 3rd for the Hart in 2007. His last season for Vezina votes was 2010 where he finished 3rd. Lost the Olympic starting position to Luongo, but still took the Devils on a surprising Cup run in 2012 to the final.
Basically what is the common denominator with these Devils teams? It is Brodeur. He was great with a good defense and great with a weaker defense. Neither time did this franchise ever have the offensive game breaker to help.
He has everything. Cups, hardware, 7 First or 2nd all-star nods which is tied (with Plante) for the most after Hall (11). Longevity, career numbers, Hart finishes, routinely among the best goalies, no doubt the best goalie of the 2000s decade. Honestly, what more do you want?
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
To add to what Big Phil said, it should be noted the Devils’ first really good season in franchise history, 1993-94 (they finished second in the NHL with 106 points, and this occurred in the pre-loser point era), was Brodeur’s rookie season. The Devils’ run as a serious Stanley Cup contender mostly coincides with Brodeur’s career in New Jersey.
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2007
- 28,779
- 16,224
Danny46
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2015
- 456
- 200
Just because I think russian players deserve more recognition it doesn't mean I am fanatic, and if you knew a certain thread i did about Tretiak, you know that outside of him I am not big in russian goalies...
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
I think most of us on here give Tretiak his due on an all-time basis even though he didn't step into the NHL. There are those that put Hasek #1. If you're good, you're good. There has just been an absence of great Russian goalies all-time.
Not to mention, just look at the success of the Devils since he left. Not great at all. He leads them to the 2012 Cup final and even though it was a surprise the Devils still did have 102 points that year. After that there was a couple of seasons where Brodeur was slowing down and then he was gone. The Devils, outside of 2018 with Taylor Hall's Hart year have been out of the playoffs since then. To me this is not a coincidence, Brodeur had that sort of impact.
Spirit of 67
Registered User
Oh look, another player who played before the Salary Cap who's over rated.
Apparently all the GOATS are currently playing.
Apparently all the GOATS are currently playing.
HawkNut
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2017
- 725
- 298
Spirit of 67
Registered User
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Brodeur is, in part, a Tretiak disciple anyhow...
He's also a lot closer to the #1 goalie of all-time than the #7...I've gone to bat for him enough times with enough ammo that we don't need to go through it again, especially in such a flimsy thread with no premise...
He's also a lot closer to the #1 goalie of all-time than the #7...I've gone to bat for him enough times with enough ammo that we don't need to go through it again, especially in such a flimsy thread with no premise...
Newsworthy
Registered User
I normally like this guy and enjoy watching his channel. I don't really agree with him on this one.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
Another thing about Brodeur, he had his own style. I don't know why other goalies never copied his style, maybe because it was a hybrid type and hard to do. He wasn't a butterfly goalie like Roy and he wasn't a flopper like Hasek. He was, sort of, a stand-up goalie to an extent. Didn't go down as much as other goalies. Not that he never went down, but he stood on his feet a lot more. It made him look quicker out there. Plus his equipment was always smaller than average. In an era where all sorts of goalies were accused of having pads that were too big (Giguere, Snow, etc.) Brodeur's pads always looked so small in comparison, yet he was an elite goalie.
Spirit of McMullen
3 since 82
- Apr 19, 2018
- 161
- 43
Good analysis and spot-on about the equipment size. And people seem to forget his puck-handling "third defenseman" skills. Not an easy thing for goalies to master. After all, the league did create the "Brodeur Rule", aka the Trapezoid Rule.
The guy did literally change the contemporary game.
Also, someone had an often-mentioned infamous blog entitled "Brodeur is a Fraud", albeit he did soften on much of his ant-Brodeur tendencies (from what I can remember)
Brodeur is a Fraud
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
A fraud how? Sorry, you just can't ignore these things and people have to realize that this sort of sustained success is for a good reason. This coming from a guy who gave up a few years ago and relented that Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are the greatest ever at what they've done. You just have to enjoy the moment at times. Brodeur was certainly one of those "tell your grandkids" type of goalies.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
I have always thought Dryden was better than Brodeur.
So, yeah, I'd say the Devils goalie is OR.
So, yeah, I'd say the Devils goalie is OR.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Crosbyfan
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2003
- 12,668
- 2,490
Not sure I got any further...
He started with the claim that Hextall was a better stick handler (in part because he might take your head off with it), and proceeds with the lack of shots argument.
Brodeur was king of shot suppression as a goalie IMO. To paraphrase Gretzky, "he stopped 100% of the shots he suppressed", and in this case added to his Team's possession and offence by a similar amount.
