Great Britain: British players abroad

[Siamese Dream]

It was also an era where the imports in BHL weren't even good enough for NA junior leagues and the goalies were all Brits wearing 2x4's for pads

Maple Leaf prospect Connor Browns father went over to BHL around that time, he was a nobody in NA and had 2 100+ point seasons with ease.

It's easy to dismiss his numbers because of the era he played in and I've done it before as well but he really was that good. He was able to carry over his success into the Super League even though he obviously didn't keep up the same scoring pace but was still the top scorer on his team 3 times

I shouldn't have to tell you these things, I know you know the story well enough, the little time he spent with Edmonton and the things people said about him show how good he was

 

[3 Minute Minor]

It's easy to dismiss his numbers because of the era he played in and I've done it before as well but he really was that good. He was able to carry over his success into the Super League even though he obviously didn't keep up the same scoring pace but was still the top scorer on his team 3 times

I shouldn't have to tell you these things, I know you know the story well enough, the little time he spent with Edmonton and the things people said about him show how good he was

I didn't say he was bad, I was just saying you can't expect another 16 year old to dominate the top British league as the quality is much better now than it was then.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I didn't say he was bad, I was just saying you can't expect another 16 year old to dominate the top British league as the quality is much better now than it was then.

It's all relative though isn't it, the current 2nd league would be a fair comparison and a 16 year old wouldn't dominate that either. If Duggan was staying in Bracknell this year he would score about 20 points

There won't be another British player that good compared to his British peers in his own age range let alone all of them, in the foreseeable future

 

[3 Minute Minor]

It's all relative though isn't it, the current 2nd league would be a fair comparison and a 16 year old wouldn't dominate that either. If Duggan was staying in Bracknell this year he would score about 20 points

There won't be another British player that good compared to his British peers in his own age range let alone all of them, in the foreseeable future

Well Duggan won't be playing with Bracknell this year so we don't know how many points he'd score your guess is just that, a guess.

We also don't know how many points a 16 year old Tony Hand would have had in modern day EPL or EIHL where he has less net to shoot at and his opponents are bigger and smarter than they were in the 80s.

There is no way to prove the comparison either way, two very different players in two very different eras.

 

[Siamese Dream]

That's why it's relative

When Tony Hand was 16 he was the best British player out of all of them and by quite a large margin. Sam Duggan is the best British player in his age range but not even close to best British player of all of them

I know it's different eras and all that but for a "next Tony Hand" claim to be valid the guy has to be absolutely dominant compared to all of his British peers, at this point he's more of a Colin Shields

 

[3 Minute Minor]

That's why it's relative

When Tony Hand was 16 he was the best British player out of all of them and by quite a large margin. Sam Duggan is the best British player in his age range but not even close to best British player of all of them

I know it's different eras and all that but for a "next Tony Hand" claim to be valid the guy has to be absolutely dominant compared to all of his British peers, at this point he's more of a Colin Shields

I disagree with your logic but agree that the comparison is silly

I don't think you can simply say Tony Hand is better than X because Hand was more dominant in a worse era of hockey. The gap may have been wider in his day but I'd say that speaks more to the growth of the game since 1983.

I don't think their comparison was meant as Sam Duggan can dominate in England like nobody since Hand, it was more that he has potential to play at the highest levels like Hand did back in his teens.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

http://www.laget.se/OREBROHOCKEYJ18/Page/99669

Holy ice time... that offseason schedule has to be a British hockey players dream

Their first game is in 2 weeks

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

If you read the article (well I read the translation) it says "the "next tony hand" - lets make this a thing".. it does not seem that serious, the writer is just trying to make the case. It's based on Duggan playing up a few age classes on lower level IIHF tourneys and on his 60 points in 15 games for U16/18. However both accomplishments are pretty common for the best British prospects over the years with the lack of depth.. so need to put it into context. Sam is just a good prospect doing well for his age and nationality, no need to invite silly comparisons or pressure on him with that label.

I remember his older brother being good enough to go to SSM's prestigious program but he never really kicked on from that. Its very interesting that the family should now decide to send Sam to Sweden rather than the States which is what some people have been arguing that British prospects should be doing (like the Danish).

 

[3 Minute Minor]

If you read the article (well I read the translation) it says "the "next tony hand" - lets make this a thing".. it does not seem that serious, the writer is just trying to make the case. It's based on Duggan playing up a few age classes on lower level IIHF tourneys and on his 60 points in 15 games for U16/18. However both accomplishments are pretty common for the best British prospects over the years with the lack of depth.. so need to put it into context. Sam is just a good prospect doing well for his age and nationality, no need to invite silly comparisons or pressure on him with that label.

I remember his older brother being good enough to go to SSM's prestigious program but he never really kicked on from that. Its very interesting that the family should now decide to send Sam to Sweden rather than the States which is what some people have been arguing that British prospects should be doing (like the Danish).

For what it's worth in the 7 years of U18 in England, nobody put up more points than Duggan as a U16.

Of the stats on EP for U19, no U16 put up as many either. I looked up U17 and Craig Peacock had 62 as a 17 year old. There were 3 guys with more but it was in the mid 90s so I'm not sure if that was D1 or D2.

Closest U16 in U19 was Jack Prince
Closest U16 in U18 was Lewis Hook

I wish it separated D1 from D2 stats.

Still not supporting the Tony Hand comparison, just sayin'

 

[Siamese Dream]

Duggan is easily the best British player at this age since Rob Farmer, you would know that if you had ever seen him play

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Lee Bonner to IOWA

 

[Siamese Dream]

Better than warming the bench for the Stingrays though surely

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Better than warming the bench for the Stingrays though surely

Definitely but there's St. Louis, Illinois, Milwaukee, and Minnesota all within pissing distance of Iowa.

Not to mention his stint with Hull last season screws his NCAA eligibility.

On the bright side, Iowa does have a weird amount of USHL teams (5) so he could get noticed if he plays well.

 

[Siamese Dream]

He probably isn't going to stay for long, he'll do 2 years at most then come back to get a bigger role at Hull or an EPL team, college isn't for everyone

 

[3 Minute Minor]

He probably isn't going to stay for long, he'll do 2 years at most then come back to get a bigger role at Hull or an EPL team, college isn't for everyone

it isn't for everyone that is playing NCAA sports right now either and for those guys it's about the 1-4 years of development in NCAA hockey & the education is a bonus.

 

[Siamese Dream]

it isn't for everyone that is playing NCAA sports right now either and for those guys it's about the 1-4 years of development in NCAA hockey & the education is a bonus.

The vast majority of British kids don't give college hockey a 2nd thought, players like Bonner just go to North America for a couple of years for an experience and to bridge the gap between u18 and senior hockey

 

[3 Minute Minor]

The vast majority of British kids don't give college hockey a 2nd thought, players like Bonner just go to North America for a couple of years for an experience and to bridge the gap between u18 and senior hockey

and how does that work out for them? I can only think of maybe 2 guys that did that & are now EIHLers

 

[Siamese Dream]

Evidently not very well, but what I'm saying is none of them consider college hockey as an option, probably because they don't have anyone advising them properly and they're too keen to dress for their home town club

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Evidently not very well, but what I'm saying is none of them consider college hockey as an option, probably because they don't have anyone advising them properly and they're too keen to dress for their home town club

Which is why I say, too bad his stint with Hull screwed his NCAA eligibility.

For a super positive hypothetical - if he happens to play well in the games where there's a scout in the building and a USHL team, maybe one of the 5 Iowa teams, bring him to USHL camp and then plays well enough to stick... and then plays well enough to get an offer from an NCAA team... that option is screwed. He might have to sit out an entire year or X number games like players before him or he might get blocked out all together.

Obviously a hypothetical but I doubt he'd turn down those hypothetical offers to sign in the EPL.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I admire your optimism

 

[3 Minute Minor]

I admire your optimism

I did say a super positive hypothetical

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Sylvain Cloutier took over GM/Head Coach of Bradford Rattlers in GMHL? Hopefully Brits don't get lured into that trap

 

[Siamese Dream]

Bit of a step down that

Further proves the notion that EIHL player/coaches can't actually coach and the team just sign them because they want their playing talent

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Bit of a step down that

Further proves the notion that EIHL player/coaches can't actually coach and the team just sign them because they want their playing talent

Depends on the guy. There are quite a few guys that were player coaches in EIHL/BISL that are coaches in legit leagues, Sylvain Cloutier isn't one of them haha

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Duggan & Örebro have played their first 2 preseason games.

4-2 win vs. Djurgården yesterday
9-4 loss vs. Linköping today

no individual stats available but apparently Duggan scored in the 4-2 win