Bring the NHL to Houston!!!

[kdb209]

No, it only takes the disapproval of two teams whose market you are physically in.

Not if the League wants to play hardball.

A relocation requires only a simple majority vote, with no team having a veto.

Link? Because the NHL has constantly denied this.

Not only have they denied it - they have denied it in court filings in Phoenix and before the CCB.

The League's position is that the restrictions under Article 4.2 are unlawful and unenforceable - and that they are superseded by the provisions of By-Law 36.4, which require only a simple majority vote of the BoG to consent to a relocation.

Note that MLSE has publicly opposed that position.

And who is paying that massive 1.5 billion fee?

There is no requirement under the NHL Constitution and By-Laws that territorial rights fees must be paid - however they do allow for consent to a relocation be made conditional on the payment of relocation and/or territorial indemnification fees.

If the League decides that it wants a team in Hamilton (or a second team in the GTA), and the Leafs refuse to negotiate a reasonable territorial fee, the League has the authority to dictate one for them.

MLSE could challenge the NHL in court if they chose - but they would likely fail, with the result possibly being both Article 4.2 and and By-Law 36 invalidated and a team being allowed to move and pay NO indemnification fee to the Leafs.

 

[Space Herpe]

Not to hijack the thread...

But...


If there is no buyer found for the Coyotes, and the city isn't willing to put up another $ Xamount of millions...where does that leave us? Where does that leave the team?

Could Houston be an option?

 

[dronald]

Not to hijack the thread...

But...


If there is no buyer found for the Coyotes, and the city isn't willing to put up another $ Xamount of millions...where does that leave us? Where does that leave the team?

Could Houston be an option?

Actually, that little Hamilton discussion we just had was the derailing, I think you put the tracks back in place though. However it only started because I mentioned that QC and Hamilton would be ahead of Houston ever getting a team, which I hold strongly to.

This is because those willing to purchase a team and move it anywhere are looking to the places they know they will make money, both long term and short term. QC is probably next in line and always has been next after Winnipeg, but I believe the WPG ticket drive makes QC's chances way more enhanced. After that, it's Hamilton unless someone is actually willing to risk losing money investing in the south. Not to say that Houston, Seattle, Portland, and hell, even Atlanta can't be viable, but I think people with big bucks are through risking their money when they can take the sure thing somewhere else.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Not if the League wants to play hardball.

A relocation requires only a simple majority vote, with no team having a veto.



Not only have they denied it - they have denied it in court filings in Phoenix and before the CCB.

The League's position is that the restrictions under Article 4.2 are unlawful and unenforceable - and that they are superseded by the provisions of By-Law 36.4, which require only a simple majority vote of the BoG to consent to a relocation.

Note that MLSE has publicly opposed that position.



There is no requirement under the NHL Constitution and By-Laws that territorial rights fees must be paid - however they do allow for consent to a relocation be made conditional on the payment of relocation and/or territorial indemnification fees.

If the League decides that it wants a team in Hamilton (or a second team in the GTA), and the Leafs refuse to negotiate a reasonable territorial fee, the League has the authority to dictate one for them.

MLSE could challenge the NHL in court if they chose - but they would likely fail, with the result possibly being both Article 4.2 and and By-Law 36 invalidated and a team being allowed to move and pay NO indemnification fee to the Leafs.

So if The Coyotes move to Ancaster, and then the Leafs refuse to accept say 400 million and The Sabres 300 million. Then it could go to court and they could end up with nothing.

If I am the Leafs I take 300 million and run IMO. No need to damage the brand.

 

[KevFu]

I personally think Houston would be a good for the NHL.

How would they support the team when they have MLB, NBA, NFL, MLS and college sports to support? The same way Boston, Philadelphia, Denver, Washington DC, and Dallas do.

The fans in Houston represent for their sports quite well. And they love going toe-to-toe with Dallas. In anything.

Also, from the TV ratings angle, their TV market size is really, really, big. I got Astros games on Fox Sports Southwest in New Orleans. Their TV broadcasts are going to out to about 10 million people, conservatively. That means advertising revenue.

The obviously have corporate support, and they probably wouldn't qualify for revenue sharing with their number of households and a 26% growth in their market over the last 10 years.

 

[puckguy11]

If potential ownership are looking to QC or Hamilton, that's where a team is going next. Sorry Houston.

I respectfully disagree. Houston has the leg up on QC and Hamilton/Toronto2. Not only does Houston have an arena ready to go, but it's been well documented the block the Leafs (and Sabres to a point) would put on the move. In QC, I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs pull the block so they can keep Quebec for themselves.

 

[uhlaw97]

To the Houston doubter.

It's true that the WHA Aeros folded the year before the NHL took in four other teams.

HOWEVER, it did not fold due to lack of fan support.

As I mentioned before, WHA hockey used to draw THOUSANDS MORE PER GAME than NBA basketball did in Houston back in the 1970s.

That's why some of us are nostaglic for a return of hockey at the major league level to Houston, and believe that it could work.

If NHL hockey works in smaller Sun Belt markets like Carolina and Tampa Bay (recent Stanley Cup winners), and it works in Dallas, then it should work in Houston.

Hell, adding a team in Houston would create a natural Houston v. Dallas rivalry; and regional rivalries are always a GOOD thing.

In my view, Les Alexander needs to be at least contacted about purchasing the Coyotes; hopefully they'd relocate.

If not that, then perhaps he could buy the NY Islanders, or Columbus.

 

[Killion]

Hell, adding a team in Houston would create a natural Houston v. Dallas rivalry; and regional rivalries are always a GOOD thing.
In my view, Les Alexander needs to be at least contacted about purchasing the Coyotes; hopefully they'd relocate.

I agree that Houston would be an excellent market, even without a team in Dallas, however the fact that the Stars are already there & been successful just makes Houston all the more attractive. Im sure the NHL & the rest of the clubs feel the same way. As Alexander did express interest & apparently was very close to buying & moving the Oilers to Houston back in 96, since then of course, he could have applied for an Expansion Franchise or bid on a couple of teams that were in trouble & amenable to relo. He didnt, hasnt, doesnt appear to be interested in doing so. Charles Wang may be forced to move in 2015; God forbid the Coyotes sale doesnt close within the next 30-60 days because otherwise they'll be marching through Pergatory on their way out of town next spring, and where to is an open question. Its hard to say, but Im sure the NHL has kept in contact with parties interested in Houston & will continue to do so. Im guessing here, but I think its just a matter of time before it happens.

 

[worstfaceoffmanever]

I could get down with a team in Houston. Put the Coyotes in Houston, and Panthers in QC, and call it a day.

If the NHL ever does expansion again, than you can look at Hamilton/Toronto2 and KC.

Florida is locked into its lease for the next twenty years, so they won't be moving, but Quebec City has to get its arena in order before they can even think about an NHL team.The Colisée is more than six decades old.

Kansas City needs an owner, and Hamilton needs an owner willing to shell out big bucks for renovations. Neither is looking good for the foreseeable future.

Houston would be great for the NHL. They have a strong history of supporting their teams - including both iterations of the Aeros - plus an arena that is just about the right size for the NHL. If push comes to shove, I'd like to see the Coyotes end up there. It works for their affiliate relations and doesn't just totally screw with the geographic alignment of the league. It's also the fourth-largest media market in the United States and, if Alexander is still interested in owning a team, a billionaire owner with a solid venue. Some of the pieces are a bit helter skelter at the moment, but just like with QC, they could all fall into alignment in a fairly short time.

 

[ScubaSteve*]

TV would be behind this. Fox Sports Houston recently lost the Astros to Comcast Sports. They'll be looking to fill the void. There are rumors that the Stars are planning an exhibition game in Houston next season to drum up some interest as FS Houston will be picking up most Stars games next year.

 

[GopherState]

As a disappointed Houston Aeros fan (yeah, we just lost the Calder Cup), I would like to make the case that Houston, TX be the first choice for any relocation.

Consider this:

the original Houston Aeros of the WHA with Gordie Howe and his sons used to outdrew the NBA Houston Rockets in the Summit during the 1970s. Strangely, despite two WHA championships, and a third finals appearance, they were passed over for the NHL.

Just yesterday, the new AHL Houston Aeros had over 10,000 people at the Toyota Center to watch the Calder Cup finals. And that's for MINOR LEAGUE hockey!!!! Imagine what the NHL would draw!

The Toyota Center is a ready made venue for the NHL, seating almost 18,000 for hockey! Houston's media market would also be a plus.

In short, someone in the NHL needs to figure out that they need to move one of the struggling franchises out there such as the Phoenix Coyotes or NY Islanders to Houston. It's almost criminal that America's fourth-largest city doesn't have major league hockey in town.

Comments?

First of all, welcome!

And I agree. I've thought for a while that Houston would be the best American market for expansion or relocation in terms of corporate money, population size, interest, arena and general geography. Besides that, Houston's a great sports town and aren't as transplant-laden as Miami or Atlanta. Now if only they could get a good ownership group.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

Nobody in their right mind would put $100 million or more up to bring an NHL club to Houston. Same deal with all the southern disasters. You might pack the house for a while, but for an average ticket price of $30 or so. The NHL is just not considered a real major-league pro sport in most of the US, so consumers won't pay top dollar for seats.

Really, I don't know how people here haven't clued into this by now. The money men certainly have, given that nobody was interested in Atlanta, the Phoenix situation is a joke, the Stars will sell for pretty much nothing, and Vinik bought the Lightning for the same. No US-based team is moving within the US for the peanuts a team is worth there, when there are markets in Canada that people will pay north of $200 million for.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I think that Bettman and the rest of the NHL would be interested in plopping a team down there in Houston, and I get the feeling that the Stars would be on board too as they'd finally have a rival relatively close and they wouldn't be so damn isolated from the rest of the league (though, knowing the NHL, they'd find a way to screw it up by putting Dallas and Houston in different divisions).

Only question is if there's a notable enough potential ownership group in place. I'll claim ignorance on the subject, so I don't know if there is one or not, but the fact that Houston hasn't gotten a team yet in spite of it's size and in spite of having, as you say it, "a ready made venue for the NHL" makes me somewhat doubt that there is one.

Les Alexander tried twice in late 90's to bring a team to Houston

He almost got Oilers but last second group from Edmonton saved franchise (With help from Bettman I would add)

Then he submitted a bid for Houston in last round of expansion. Now if I recall there was a seperate bid put in for Houston that weakened both bids in comparision to the single bids from other cities.

After that he stopped trying.

Les Alexander owns Rockets and arena so he is only real option. NHL could always approach him and see if he has interest in franchise still but he hasn't been involved in any attempts to bring NHL to Houston since those efforts failed

 

[King Woodballs]

Does Houston have an owner, and a rink ready for a team?

It appears to me that, this market could work fairly well.

 

[Seanconn*]

Les Alexander tried twice in late 90's to bring a team to Houston

He almost got Oilers but last second group from Edmonton saved franchise (With help from Bettman I would add)

Then he submitted a bid for Houston in last round of expansion. Now if I recall there was a seperate bid put in for Houston that weakened both bids in comparision to the single bids from other cities.

After that he stopped trying.

Les Alexander owns Rockets and arena so he is only real option. NHL could always approach him and see if he has interest in franchise still but he hasn't been involved in any attempts to bring NHL to Houston since those efforts failed

If the price is right for him, why not? It's always puzzled me that there is only one team in Texas, not exactly hockey central, but still the second biggest US state.

Personally, I'd like to see Coyotes move to Pacific Northwest, with an eventual team in Quebec. Solves the whole splitting up Calgary Edmonton and Vancouver, because they'd never have to split up if it's really that important.

Also, could Victoria ever support an NHL team? It's not exactly hard to get there from Vancouver, and there are quite a few people on the southern half of Vancouver island anyways, right?

I'll take an alternative to the Canucks anyday. (hope I wouldn't hate them more though )

 

[uhlaw97]

Does Houston have an owner, and a rink ready for a team?QUOTE]

To answer your question about whether Houston has a rink ready for a team.......the answer is....................HELL YES!!!!

The Toyota Center is a state of the art arena that seats nearly 18,000 for hockey. The AHL Houston Aeros already play there. The arena was completed in 2003, and as such, is still relatively new. The NBA Houston Rockets also play there.

As for a potential owner, the situation is a bit more complicated.

The owner will HAVE to be billionaire Les Alexander, current owner of the NBA Houston Rockets, simply because when the Toyota Center was built, Alexander pitched in funds and ensured that the contract wording would allow ONLY him to own any NHL team that might play there.

It's just a matter of Alexander forking over the money to buy an NHL franchise, and move it there.

I wish he'd do that with the Coyotes or perhaps some other struggling franchise.

 

[Andy6]

It's true that the WHA Aeros folded the year before the NHL took in four other teams.

HOWEVER, it did not fold due to lack of fan support.

As I mentioned before, WHA hockey used to draw THOUSANDS MORE PER GAME than NBA basketball did in Houston back in the 1970s.

That's why some of us are nostaglic for a return of hockey at the major league level to Houston, and believe that it could work.

If NHL hockey works in smaller Sun Belt markets like Carolina and Tampa Bay (recent Stanley Cup winners), and it works in Dallas, then it should work in Houston.

Hell, adding a team in Houston would create a natural Houston v. Dallas rivalry; and regional rivalries are always a GOOD thing.

In my view, Les Alexander needs to be at least contacted about purchasing the Coyotes; hopefully they'd relocate.

If not that, then perhaps he could buy the NY Islanders, or Columbus.

The Aeros drew around 8,500 per game, which put them at or near the top of the WHA, and was more than some NHL clubs managed at the time. They sold out fairly often in the playoffs. They were the best team in the WHA, which helped. It always has surprised me that Houston doesn't get discussed more as a possible NHL site.

 

[Blue Dragon]

Then he submitted a bid for Houston in last round of expansion. Now if I recall there was a seperate bid put in for Houston that weakened both bids in comparision to the single bids from other cities.

Yes, if I recall correctly from another thread on a similar issue the Maloofs were involved in that other bid.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

To mention that blocking by the Leafs and Sabres in Hamilton....why should Buffalo even be involved? Different country. Would they really lose a lot of "attendees" if Hamilton got a team? How many from Hamilton really go to a Sabres game? If they do it's only because Leafs tickets are hard to come by anyways.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

...because the Houston Aeros folded the year before this happened. They couldn't even get to the last WHA season.

You Houston guys are dreamin'

From a guy from Winnipeg this is certainly worth a chuckle or 2. Apparently the Sun reported how a move back to Winnipeg was a step back for the NHL.

 

[Kanata Senators]

To mention that blocking by the Leafs and Sabres in Hamilton....why should Buffalo even be involved? Different country. Would they really lose a lot of "attendees" if Hamilton got a team? How many from Hamilton really go to a Sabres game? If they do it's only because Leafs tickets are hard to come by anyways.

So many Canadian fans go to Sabres games that they sing the Canadian NationalAnthem, even if they are playing another American team. It would destroy them to have a team in Hamilton, and the Sabres were just sold to a guy the BOG loves as an owner.

 

[cheswick]

With still no owner for the Dallas Stars a team in Houston is an absolute non-starter imo. If the Coyotes are relocated I think Quebec City is at the very top of the list. They are getting a brand new arena built and have an ownership group in place.

In the US, Seattle and Kansas City rank higher than Houston I think.

As for Hamilton, MLSE pulls a lot of weight in the league. While they may not have a veto vote they're opinion matters more than any other. If you think the rest of the owners would strong arm the Leafs and force a team into Hamilton without their blessing you're dreaming.

 

[piqued]

It's also the fourth-largest media market in the United States and, if Alexander is still interested in owning a team, a billionaire owner with a solid venue.

Where are you getting that from? They're listed as 10th by Nielsen.

 

[dronald]

I respectfully disagree. Houston has the leg up on QC and Hamilton/Toronto2. Not only does Houston have an arena ready to go, but it's been well documented the block the Leafs (and Sabres to a point) would put on the move. In QC, I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs pull the block so they can keep Quebec for themselves.

As seen above, there is no such evidance of a block by either Franchise, just a relocation fee. Any rumor of a block is just that, as stated above, it was even denied in court that Toronto could stop a team in Hamilton.

As for Hamilton, MLSE pulls a lot of weight in the league. While they may not have a veto vote they're opinion matters more than any other. If you think the rest of the owners would strong arm the Leafs and force a team into Hamilton without their blessing you're dreaming.

If an owner with Billions wants to move a franchise to Hamilton that is destined to move, then it will happen and no such veto will exist.

 

[cheswick]

As seen above, there is no such evidance of a block by either Franchise, just a relocation fee. Any rumor of a block is just that, as stated above, it was even denied in court that Toronto could stop a team in Hamilton.



If an owner with Billions wants to move a franchise to Hamilton that is destined to move, then it will happen and no such veto will exist.

I guess if that's true you would just need someone like Jim Bailsille to come forward wanting to move a team to Hamilton..... Oh wait.