Book Feature Brighton Tigers: A Story of Sporting Passion (by Stewart Roberts & Kevin Wilsher)

[Stewart]

The letter by Tommy Robertson also gives some insight into the international league I've mentioned.

In 1934-35, clubs from England (Streatham, Richmond, both Wembley clubs), France (two clubs from Paris), Germany (Berlin, Riessersee), Italy (Milano) and Czechoslovakia (Prague) took part in two groups/pools. Attendances Richmond Hawks drew on their trip to the Continent according to Robertson: Paris 12,000 – Prague 9,000 – Berlin 10,000.

Here's some footage from the November 1934 international league game between Riessersee (Germany, playing at Munich here) and Stade Français (one of the two clubs from Paris):



In 1935-36, only the clubs from England and France returned to participate in the international league again. The other countries dropped out – perhaps because the LIHG (IIHF) had spoken out against it? The international federation, championing amateurism, was concerned about "professional tendencies" and it's not hard to see why when you think back of what Canadian players in England earned. How did the English league manage to keep its official amateur status? The clubs restored to "shamateurism" and created well-paid jobs the players were nominally hired for.

Which letter by Tommy Robertson?
Bunny Ahearne was at pains to ensure 'his players' were always designated as 'independents'. Don't ask me how although it's all in 'Lion in Winter'. Suffice to say here, he was a shrewd man, to put it politely.

 

[Theokritos]

Which letter by Tommy Robertson?

Sorry for being unclear. Yesterday I was referring to a 1935 Montreal Gazette article featuring a lengthy quote of something Tommy Robertson had written them from London. That's the "letter by Tommy Robertson" I meant:

A Canadian player, Tommy Robertson, wrote:

"The Empire pool, Wembley, is as fine a hockey arena as exists anywhere in the world. In the recent test match Canada vs. England, a crowd of ten thousand was present. But the weekly league games average between 5,000 and 8,000."​

Source: Montreal Gazette, February 14th 1935 (link)

 

[Theokritos]

Bunny Ahearne was at pains to ensure 'his players' were always designated as 'independents'. Don't ask me how although it's all in 'Lion in Winter'. Suffice to say here, he was a shrewd man, to put it politely.

By the way, CAHA president Gilroy in 1936 went as far as stating that "hockey in Great Britain, as conducted by the British Ice Hockey Association, is a racket". The CAHA tried to regulate the exodus of Canadian amateur players to England, but without much success.

As early as 1936, lines of conflict that would accompany hockey well into the 1970s are visible. You have:

1. ambitious individual clubs and federations in Europe, circumventing the principle of amateurism and working towards professionalism,
2. champions of amateurism like the IOC and other bodies governing amateur sports, thwarting attempts at a liberalization,
3. the CAHA, more strictly bound to the amateur principle than e.g. the British federation and set up to compete on uneven terms with European shamateurism,
4. the LIHG/IIHF, trying to manoeuvre through everything without making a definite commitment that could cost them either Canada or Europe or Olympic eligibility.

Ahearne himself was part of 1) in the 1930s and later became part of 4) when he was IIHF president.

 

[Theokritos]

Speaking of professional tendencies: let's take a look at the NHL's foray into Europe in the 1930s.

The idea of an NHL exhibition overseas was pursued by parties on both side of the Atlantic. Certainly the European tours of Canadian amateur teams since 1927 (Montreal Victorias played exhibition games in Sweden, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and England) had made an impression. In the 1930s, the Montreal Canadiens were trying to organize a similiar tour for themselves on several occasions (1933, 1935 and 1936). Montreal hockey promoter Armand Vincent and former Canadiens owner/GM Leo Dandurand travelled to England in 1935 respectively 1936. So did Toronto Maple Leafs owner Conn Symthe in 1935. On the European side, a hockey promoter based in Paris, Jeff Dickson, was very eager to bring the NHL to town. He was also one of the key figures behind the International League mentioned in post 25 and criticized by the LIHG/IIHF president for its "professional tendencies". And indeed, Dickson is quoted in a Canadian newspaper as saying that exposing Europe to NHL hockey "would be the finish of amateur hockey", which he was looking forward to. In London, "a group of sportsmen" had similiar ideas. They wanted to create an openly professional league based in London. Vincent reported that in Europe the economic "depression is now unknown" and Dandurand felt that London was in a league of its own: "There is an air of confidence about the British capital that is not in evidence on this side or on the Continent." Dandurand even suggested a working agreement between the English league and the NHL and that "big names of hockey here – Howie Morenz, King Clancy, the Cook brothers, Sylvio Mantha and others" should be enlisted to play in England and be distributed "as the nucleus of the various clubs" there.

King Clancy or Bill Cook in the English league, perhaps in a Brighton Tigers jersey at some point? I guess that's a chapter Stewart Roberts would have loved to include in his book, if it only became reality! It didn't come to pass, but in 1938 Armand Vincent was again involved when the Montreal Canadiens and Detroit Red Wings finally set foot in Europe and played a series of exhibition games against each other in London, Brighton and Paris.

@Stewart, what else can you tell us about those talks and the background of the appearance of Canadiens & Red Wings in Brighton?

 

[Stewart]

Speaking of professional tendencies: let's take a look at the NHL's foray into Europe in the 1930s.

The idea of an NHL exhibition overseas was pursued by parties on both side of the Atlantic. Certainly the European tours of Canadian amateur teams since 1927 (Montreal Victorias played exhibition games in Sweden, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and England) had made an impression. In the 1930s, the Montreal Canadiens were trying to organize a similiar tour for themselves on several occasions (1933, 1935 and 1936). Montreal hockey promoter Armand Vincent and former Canadiens owner/GM Leo Dandurand travelled to England in 1935 respectively 1936. So did Toronto Maple Leafs owner Conn Symthe in 1935. On the European side, a hockey promoter based in Paris, Jeff Dickson, was very eager to bring the NHL to town. He was also one of the key figures behind the International League mentioned in post 25 and criticized by the LIHG/IIHF president for its "professional tendencies". And indeed, Dickson is quoted in a Canadian newspaper as saying that exposing Europe to NHL hockey "would be the finish of amateur hockey", which he was looking forward to. In London, "a group of sportsmen" had similiar ideas. They wanted to create an openly professional league based in London. Vincent reported that in Europe the economic "depression is now unknown" and Dandurand felt that London was in a league of its own: "There is an air of confidence about the British capital that is not in evidence on this side or on the Continent." Dandurand even suggested a working agreement between the English league and the NHL and that "big names of hockey here – Howie Morenz, King Clancy, the Cook brothers, Sylvio Mantha and others" should be enlisted to play in England and be distributed "as the nucleus of the various clubs" there.

King Clancy or Bill Cook in the English league, perhaps in a Brighton Tigers jersey at some point? I guess that's a chapter Stewart Roberts would have loved to include in his book, if it only became reality! It didn't come to pass, but in 1938 Armand Vincent was again involved when the Montreal Canadiens and Detroit Red Wings finally set foot in Europe and played a series of exhibition games against each other in London, Brighton and Paris.

@Stewart, what else can you tell us about those talks and the background of the appearance of Canadiens & Red Wings in Brighton?

I don't have lot of information about this topic but Martin Harris does so I've passed this post to him (he's not on this site). I'll let you know if he can contribute anything but I suspect the Canadian papers would have been more excited about this than the London ones.

 

[Theokritos]

I don't have lot of information about this topic but Martin Harris does so I've passed this post to him (he's not on this site). I'll let you know if he can contribute anything but I suspect the Canadian papers would have been more excited about this than the London ones.

That would make sense. Regardless, it's pretty obvious just how promising things looked for English hockey in the 1930s. And then WW2 happened. After WW2, there was still a kind of afterglow into the 1950s, but not quite the same air of confidence, it seems to me?

 

[Stewart]

That would make sense. Regardless, it's pretty obvious just how promising things looked for English hockey in the 1930s. And then WW2 happened. After WW2, there was still a kind of afterglow into the 1950s, but not quite the same air of confidence, it seems to me?

The simple answer is the difference between the economies in Britain and North America. Before the war, we didn't suffer as much from the Depression as Canadians/Americans. During the war, the North American economy, producing war materiel, remained comparatively buoyant while the Nazis bombed the whatsit out of us over here. After the war North America's economy recovered swiftly and Canadians were paid more to stay at home, the reverse of the pre-war era. I just wish I'd been around in those days!

 

[Theokritos]

The simple answer is the difference between the economies in Britain and North America. Before the war, we didn't suffer as much from the Depression as Canadians/Americans. During the war, the North American economy, producing war materiel, remained comparatively buoyant while the Nazis bombed the whatsit out of us over here. After the war North America's economy recovered swiftly and Canadians were paid more to stay at home, the reverse of the pre-war era.

That makes a lot of sense.

Some of the last moments in the spotlight that British hockey enjoyed after WW2 came in the second half of the 1950s, after the Soviet Union had entered the international hockey scene. Of particular historic interest is the 1955-56 season when the Soviet national team played several British clubs. @Stewart himself has written about that tour a few months ago in a SIHR blog entry that I can only recommend. At that time, British hockey was still dominated by Canadian players and since the Soviets did not yet have more than two encounters with Canadian clubs on their record (1954 and 1955 World Championships), playing against British clubs was a valuable experience for them.

And, of course, in 1957-58 Brighton Tigers themselves won a game against the Soviets as mentioned in the opening post of this thread, albeit it should be mentioned that it was the Soviet second or "B" national team the Tigers faced: by December 1957, the Soviet national team proper was touring the motherland of hockey for the very first time.

 

[Stewart]

Martin, as the number one authority on British hockey, I was wondering if you by any chance have the roster for Brighton when they played against Princes (a 4-2 Brighton win) at the Real ice Skating Rink in Brighton (Middle Street) on January 4, 1899.

Did you ever research this in the local papers? I think that you used to live in Brighton (maybe you still do). I think it is intriguing that they were able to win against Princes. I reckon they were short-lived as a club, but I have never seen a roster for them.

It seems that you and David Gordon only covered the years from 1910 and forward in the book, but I know you've done research for the years before that (domestic British hockey).

Hello, Stewart here. Reading this thread with great interest. As Martin has said, in the book on Brighton Tigers (reviewed on another thread here) my co-author did some research on games played at the Real Ice Skating Rink but couldn't find as much as we'd have liked. We published what we found. When this pandemic is over, I shall be spending quite a bit of time in the Brighton archives. If I find anything of interest, rest assured SIHR will be told!

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

...I have not researched hockey at the first Brighton rink but a co-author of my friend and fellow scribe Stewart Roberts (also a member of SIHR) has with limited success via the local newspapers for their recently published book Brighton Tigers. No details of the game v Princes were discovered but the Brighton Gazette had a description of a game in January 1900 v Henglers ( also a circular rink but in London). At Henglers a game more akin to Bandy using a ball was played with teams of five players. This newspaper named the Brighton five as F.Formie; Duncan Turner; M C Cumberlodge,K.Northern, Captain Blake. Nothing is known about them or their abilities on skates.

Hello, Stewart here. Reading this thread with great interest. As Martin has said, in the book on Brighton Tigers (reviewed on another thread here) my co-author did some research on games played at the Real Ice Skating Rink but couldn't find as much as we'd have liked. We published what we found. When this pandemic is over, I shall be spending quite a bit of time in the Brighton archives. If I find anything of interest, rest assured SIHR will be told!

Thank you gentlemen for the reply. Brighton is one of the teams that I am little curious about, because there's not much background to be found on the players. Were they all locals? some Londoners? North Americans?

The five mentioned above are difficult to research. I think that K.Northern might be either Ernest Northen (different spelling) [1877-1942] or one of his brothers. He was a Brighton native who studied at Cambridge and played in the 1900 Varsity game against Oxford. He later served in the Boer War and WW I. His brothers Frank and Harold also studied at Cambridge.

There was no one named Cumberlodge in the 1901 UK census that could be a match. There was a Millicent Cumberledge, born in 1870 who lived in Staffordshire, but that is quite far away from Sussex.

Also, no one named Formie could be found in the 1901 UK census.
There were about four Duncan Turners in the census, three of them lived way up North, and one in Suffolk.
Captain Blake is not much to go on. Aside from the fact that he was in the Military with that rank.
Any more info on these gentlemen?

As London was the main hub for hockey activities (with a puck) at the turn of the century, it would be interesting to see who the players in Brighton were. The hockey activities must have been shortlived at the rink, as it closed in 1900 (?). The use of a ball indicates that they were not influenced yet by Londoners or Canadians.

 

[Stewart]

Thank you gentlemen for the reply. Brighton is one of the teams that I am little curious about, because there's not much background to be found on the players. Were they all locals? some Londoners? North Americans?

The five mentioned above are difficult to research. I think that K.Northern might be either Ernest Northen (different spelling) [1877-1942] or one of his brothers. He was a Brighton native who studied at Cambridge and played in the 1900 Varsity game against Oxford. He later served in the Boer War and WW I. His brothers Frank and Harold also studied at Cambridge.

There was no one named Cumberlodge in the 1901 UK census that could be a match. There was a Millicent Cumberledge, born in 1870 who lived in Staffordshire, but that is quite far away from Sussex.

Also, no one named Formie could be found in the 1901 UK census.
There were about four Duncan Turners in the census, three of them lived way up North, and one in Suffolk.
Captain Blake is not much to go on. Aside from the fact that he was in the Military with that rank.
Any more info on these gentlemen?

As London was the main hub for hockey activities (with a puck) at the turn of the century, it would be interesting to see who the players in Brighton were. The hockey activities must have been shortlived at the rink, as it closed in 1900 (?). The use of a ball indicates that they were not influenced yet by Londoners or Canadians.

First of all, I would urge you to buy my book as I'm sure it will answer some of your queries.

For now, I will briefly explain that the games played in Brighton and Hove in the early decades of the 20th century were not connected in any way with Brighton Tigers. The latter were mostly Canadians who played in 1935-65. All that Kevin and I know about the former is in the book, though from reading your post above you probably know more about those players than we do!