Brian Little moving forward

[JetsUK]

Every time I see this thread title I run a mental filmstrip of Little, in full gear, inching forwards in slo-mo as the rest of the Jets power-skate in circles around him. Is it just me?

I thought he was fine to good, all things considered, in terms of his 200-foot game this year. He got stronger through the playoffs and was often our best player against Vegas (I know...). I expect him to be good to very good in 2018-19. I do think he's a player who is steady rather than improvisatory, and works best with others whose game he understands. Any line that includes him, someone who isn't Laine or Hendricks, and Ehlers, should be a line that carries the puck, scores some and is defensively decent. I don't see him as a hugely worse option overall than Stas or Brassard, especially when age, injuries and contract are taken into account.

I also feel like the line between "criminally under-rated" and "overpaid, over-the-hill team anchor" is surprisingly finer than I'd thought. Almost as fine as the one between "Next Ovechkin/perennial Rocket challenger" and "beardy team anchor/playoff choker." Go figure.

 

[Jets2point0]

Little was our best forward for most of 2.0's existence, one off year and off to the salt mines!

He looked a lot better as the playoffs went on which suggests he was playing through something that got better.

I expect a refreshed Little next year.

People have to realize that players roles'change, especially as the team gets deeper and the player ages. Little might be a bit overpaid, but he can be a good 2C again, and if not, and excellent 3C.

We should be worried about Lowry, who looked like **** the entire playoffs.

I think it’s not just solely his play this year, but mostly his contract attached to that. Both things considered are concerning. Without a doubt Little has been a rock since 2.0 and one of our most consistent contributors, but that contract could really bite us if the decline continues. If he bounces back, then good for him (and Chevy!)

 

[buggs]

I agree. Little went from perhaps overrated to greatly underrated in my opinion. I would be shocked if he is anything other than #2 C next year.

I'm in the same boat in terms of Little. There's certainly not much love lost for him around here in certain camps, but I think it was an off year more than anything else. His P/60 numbers were down certainly but he still largely performed at a 2C level even looking at those numbers (lower end of spectrum). What he didn't do was perform like we had been accustomed to, or well with Laine/Ehlers and that was indeed disappointing. But I'm not convinced that's entirely on Little. I think Laine and Ehlers burdened Little with a very heavy defensive load, something that didn't happen when Little was playing 1C as his wingers were far more effective defensively (Wheeler+). And while Laine definitely struggled with Little as his C, I very clearly remember early in the season when Laine himself was talking about how he didn't feel the same as the previous season. I recall watching Laine early in the season and his movements seemed off as well - not as fluid, a little lost on the ice at times. So I'm ok with the notion of there not being much chemistry between Laine/Little but at least the front end of that isn't on Little.

Perhaps he's on his way out and his decline has already started and it will be precipitous but I'd bet against that. I expect he has 2-3 more years that will be easily categorized as 2C level and will trend down as he ages but I don't think it's happened yet.

I do think we should be working Roslovic in as center next season but I do expect rough patches there in terms of who his linemates should be. I think he needs a scoring role and playing with grinder/defensive wings would hurt his development. But I don't think he's physically mature enough to shoulder a 2C role just yet either. So it's a bit of a conundrum. Perreault is likely a very good fit as a winger for him and maybe Armia on the other side (sorry, off-season mode can't remember which wings they play).

I'd love to see Statsny stay but I simply don't see it happening. We don't have the room for him. I've seen people's well thought out calculations but I remain unconvinced the Jets want to move all of Mason (shouldn't and likely won't get a good return)/Myers (should and would get a good return)/Perreault (could and should generate a decent return and you could play Roslo on wing but that won't help his C development). The Jets are, to a fault I believe, loyal to their players. In a small, "undesirable" (not my perception) market the Jets I think are overcompensating for perceptions outside the team. Good idea? Maybe, not sure, it is still a business.

 

[Inflict]

Little is still a good 2C who does well on the PP. I wasn't happy with the term he received, but he is paid fairly. That being said, I see him doing slightly better next season if he continues to play with Laine/Ehlers. Laine killed a lot of offensive zone entries last year by not moving his feet as much when receiving a pass (which he has since changed just before the Stastny deal) and by trying to stickhandle and deke his way by defenders. Ehlers would also kill a lot of rushes by trying to force the puck to Laine a little too much, but was otherwise good with zone entries or forcing the defenders to play deep in their zone to handle his speed.

All in all, Little's offense dropped a bit due to our young players learning the game last season. I foresee a 45-55 point campaign for him next year if Stastny is not resigned and he continues to play with Laine/Ehlers. Keep playing him in a 2C role on the PP until his game regresses to the point where he is a 30 point 3rd line player.

 

[The Russian Rocket]

Little is still a good 2C who does well on the PP. I wasn't happy with the term he received, but he is paid fairly. That being said, I see him doing slightly better next season if he continues to play with Laine/Ehlers. Laine killed a lot of offensive zone entries last year by not moving his feet as much when receiving a pass (which he has since changed just before the Stastny deal) and by trying to stickhandle and deke his way by defenders. Ehlers would also kill a lot of rushes by trying to force the puck to Laine a little too much, but was otherwise good with zone entries or forcing the defenders to play deep in their zone to handle his speed.

All in all, Little's offense dropped a bit due to our young players learning the game last season. I foresee a 45-55 point campaign for him next year if Stastny is not resigned and he continues to play with Laine/Ehlers. Keep playing him in a 2C role on the PP until his game regresses to the point where he is a 30 point 3rd line player.

For all the Jets fans I truly hope that Little never plays with Laine and Ehlers again; there is a reason why Stastny was acquired and Little demoted to 3rd line. And can we cut the pretending that Little's offensive numbers were affected by Ehlers' and Laine's defensive ability the guy is just not producing, 43 points in 82 games is not a good 2C level. The fact that the wingers he played with most of the season put up 60-70 points makes it even worse; a good playmaking center always gets extra assist points compared to wingers since the puck moves through the centers stick the most.

Does it really take another season or even more before some Jets fans can see that ELL was one of the worst 2nd lines in the whole league last season. Little should be the 3rd line center, max.

 

[mattihp]

He doesn't really work with Laine, which makes it hard as Maurice doesn't like Laine enough for him to be on the first line. Third line or trade bait.

 

[Inflict]

For all the Jets fans I truly hope that Little never plays with Laine and Ehlers again; there is a reason why Stastny was acquired and Little demoted to 3rd line. And can we cut the pretending that Little's offensive numbers were affected by Ehlers' and Laine's defensive ability the guy is just not producing, 43 points in 82 games is not a good 2C level. The fact that the wingers he played with most of the season put up 60-70 points makes it even worse; a good playmaking center always gets extra assist points compared to wingers since the puck moves through the centers stick the most.

Does it really take another season or even more before some Jets fans can see that ELL was one of the worst 2nd lines in the whole league last season. Little should be the 3rd line center, max.

Well for one thing you are objectively wrong about Little not being a good 2c. Average production for a 2nd liner is between 40-48 points in which Little had 43 (well below his normal average too, BTW). And you also pull out a strawman argument. I never once stated anything about Ehlers/Laine's defensive ability but only Laine's inability to carry the puck into the offensive zone in the first half of the season and Ehlers' tendency to overpass to Laine on the rush. The proof is in the pudding. Ehlers had 55 giveaways last year, Laine had 51 and Little with only 20.

 

[mattihp]

Little is a second liner for sure, but as Wheeler and Scheifele will have their jerseys stitched together and Little isn't a good match for neither Ehlers nor Laine.

 

[kelsier]

Well for one thing you are objectively wrong about Little not being a good 2c. Average production for a 2nd liner is between 40-48 points in which Little had 43 (well below his normal average too, BTW). And you also pull out a strawman argument. I never once stated anything about Ehlers/Laine's defensive ability but only Laine's inability to carry the puck into the offensive zone in the first half of the season and Ehlers' tendency to overpass to Laine on the rush. The proof is in the pudding. Ehlers had 55 giveaways last year, Laine had 51 and Little with only 20.

Yeah Laine definitely had trouble in the early season and they exposed him fully. He had just finished with the first full properly coordinated heavy summer program since... maybe ever? He has been injured at the end of basically every other recent year. So when finally getting to really work on the lower body/core strength you could now say it was kind of expected (although personally since not being a pro athlete I didn't have a clue it'd take that long for the exercise to carry fruit). Also it didn't help having to play RW for a player who had been LW basically his entire career before NHL and even today he doesn't have the similar tools to break in from the right wall when comparing to making entries from his natural wing and even though he got better at it, those dekes often just look clumsy.

The line depended a lot on the Ehler's ability to make the zone entries, but what he wasn't ever really good at was slowing down the pace for his line mates to catch up and that caused problems (if he didn't just drop down on the stone wall). However, Little certainly was not able to provide the kind of offensive support the two of them needed despite of being solid at his own zone. In a way his game reminded me a bit of Granlund's first NHL season(s), where he simply didn't have the gas in the tank to play high level two-way game. Didn't have the speed and was tossed around on his arse a lot. Little didn't have balance related issues but he killed a fair share of offence by not being able to win puck battles at the other end (similarly to Laine especially at the beginning of the year) and he was often a step or two behind the game offensively. I've said it before but 29 yo veteran should be able to be the go-to-guy while anchoring two youngsters on his wings, not the other way around - experience does matter. When you compile all these things together you get one of the worst second lines in the league. I doubt it would have looked much different in the second half of the season either. Lets just hope it's not something we need to witness ever again.

With that said, Ehlers and Laine do not share their irl chemistry on the ice either and when narrowing down at the two of them, it explains a lot of up and down hills. Anyway, I don't blame Little, Laine or Ehlers for the shortcomings of the ELL. The management should have interfered as opposed to just sitting still doing pretty much nothing (apart from maybe benching Laine and Ehlers) for ~half a season, and that's on them fully.

I don't agree about the 43 points being good enough production for a 2nd line player who's playing in one of the most potent offensive teams in the league and having one of the league's top scores by his side (who scored more goals than he had total points). Not by a long shot. Maybe he didn't do the necessary homework coming into the 17-18 and that resulted into above mediocre season. I don't really know, but players at their 29 do not normally start a downhill as deep as this. He needs to do a lot better next year and really work his arse o** to prolong these early signs of decline this summer. For someone making 5m per year in a contending team, that's where it all begins and the least what you can expect. I'm hoping for a bounce but not really sure what to expect.

 

[Aggie204]

I hope he bounces back, we need him. Hopefully he can recapture his magic again when he is reunited with the Captain.

Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Little-Wheelers
Perrault-Roslovic-Armia
Copp-Lowry-Tanev
Petan

 

[csk]

Little was underrated before, but wow this thread

 

[LowLefty]

I hope he bounces back, we need him. Hopefully he can recapture his magic again when he is reunited with the Captain.

Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Little-Wheelers
Perrault-Roslovic-Armia
Copp-Lowry-Tanev
Petan

If that line up were ever to happen, I could see the 2nd line out performing the 1st - at least in the short term.

 

[Moon Man]

I hope he bounces back, we need him. Hopefully he can recapture his magic again when he is reunited with the Captain.

Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Little-Wheelers
Perrault-Roslovic-Armia
Copp-Lowry-Tanev
Petan

Ladd-Little-Wheeler use to be our best line for a long time. They had great chemistry together. I’d for sure like to see them paired up again next season, at least to try them out for a bit. Conner seems like a great complimentary piece for them. Good N/S driver.

 

[JetsFan815]

We might have to convince him to waive to Seattle in 2020

We don't need him to. His NMC turns into a NTC after the next 2 seasons before the Seattle XD. He would have to continue being a 40-50 point player for Seattle to take him though without the Jets having to throw in an huge sweetner like some other teams did this XD to get rid of certain contracts.

 

[Tommigun]

I’ll just drop this here: Every NHL Team's Most Overpaid Player In 2018

I really am not a fan of this deal, especially if it costs us a Wheeler.

 

[puck stoppa]

I’ll just drop this here: Every NHL Team's Most Overpaid Player In 2018

I really am not a fan of this deal, especially if it costs us a Wheeler.

He will have a bounce back year. 20 goals at least.

 

[DashingDane]

Litts will be fine imo. Just play him with at least one player that plays a north/south game like himself.

 

[Tommigun]

He will have a bounce back year. 20 goals at least.

It may be so, but we are stuck with that contract until Little is 36. I get Ladd contract on steroids vibes from that. And I’d rather keep Wheeler than Little, even if he has a bounce-back year.

 

[surixon]

I’ll just drop this here: Every NHL Team's Most Overpaid Player In 2018

I really am not a fan of this deal, especially if it costs us a Wheeler.

If he goes back to being a 50 plus point player he will be very good value for his deal. Especially when you add in his defense and face offs.

Edit:

He has the 43rd highest cap hit among centers which would indicate his compensation is that of an average 2C. Even if he only puts up another 43 to 45 points he is being compensated fairly and is in no way an overpay compared to other contracts on the market. If he gets back to the level if play he showed consistently prior to last year he will be a darn good deal.

 

[Ares]

Bad contract. Prove me wrong.

Doesn't matter if Little is 2C and that line stinks as bad as it did last season, since we still have our 1st line to carry us to the promised land.

 

[Jets2point0]

If he goes back to being a 50 plus point player he will be very good value for his deal. Especially when you add in his defense and face offs.

Edit:

He has the 43rd highest cap hit among centers which would indicate his compensation is that of an average 2C. Even if he only puts up another 43 to 45 points he is being compensated fairly and is in no way an overpay compared to other contracts on the market. If he gets back to the level if play he showed consistently prior to last year he will be a darn good deal.

The problem is that a lot of players could put up 43 to 45 points between Ehlers and Laine, and cost much less

 

[Jets2point0]

He will have a bounce back year. 20 goals at least.

He had 16 last year. I’d hope if he continues to see pp time and play with elite wingers he’s pushing 55-60 points with 25 goals

 

[Board Bard]

I’ll just drop this here: Every NHL Team's Most Overpaid Player In 2018

I really am not a fan of this deal, especially if it costs us a Wheeler.

The writer demonstrated he doesn't understand the salary cap when he wrote of Little's deal that "The cap hit doesn't get lower over time, either, so the Jets didn't even structure this deal properly."

Of course the cap hit doen't get lower over time because the cap hit is an average of all years of the contract. If the guy doesn't understand the most rudimentary element of the cap, his opinion of who's the most overpaid isn't worth much.

 

[puck stoppa]

Any chance we can change his name in title to correct spelling? Then he'll play better.

 

[LowLefty]

It may be so, but we are stuck with that contract until Little is 36. I get Ladd contract on steroids vibes from that. And I’d rather keep Wheeler than Little, even if he has a bounce-back year.

This contract, as a % of cap, will disappear in a couple of years.
What we end of paying Wheeler (for his twilight years) could be truly frightening and may impact our draft / develop approach (which is what we do here in Wpg)

I have no problem with this contract - Little will rebound this year, especially if they keep him away from Laine (which is assumed)