Brian Leetch: very underrated on hfboards?

Feb 27, 2002
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Even there you may be underrating Leetch. Leetch used to throw some very nice hits. Both open ice and hip checks on the boards. He was not a Stevens or Pronger hitter but if you had your head down Leetch would wake you up.
Sure. My point is the he didn't have the reputation of being a big hitter. But he was far from soft or not physical.
 
Jan 21, 2011
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I always wondered why Leech was never rated higher on any history poll. I always considered him to be an upper echelon defender over some others like Stevens and Lidstrom. Watching him play was a treat

and this is coming from someone who is a Ducks fan living in the Northeast who has family members that are big fans of the Rangers and B’s.
 

NickyFotiu

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Sep 29, 2011
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I always wondered why Leech was never rated higher on any history poll. I always considered him to be an upper echelon defender over some others like Stevens and Lidstrom. Watching him play was a treat

and this is coming from someone who is a Ducks fan living in the Northeast who has family members that are big fans of the Rangers and B’s.
The Rangers had around 5-7 years of horrible defense and inconsistent goaltending. Some people do not realize that Leetch was the only thing keeping us in some of those games. He was not to blame for the bad stuff.
 

Bryce Newman

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Jan 4, 2021
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I always wondered why Leech was never rated higher on any history poll. I always considered him to be an upper echelon defender over some others like Stevens and Lidstrom. Watching him play was a treat

and this is coming from someone who is a Ducks fan living in the Northeast who has family members that are big fans of the Rangers and B’s.

American player playing for an American team that spent money, as another poster here said. That will always get you underrated.

But back in the 90s when Leetch was playing, he was always regarded as the premiere Defenseman of the league. Him and Bourque. But somehow over the past 15 years or so, a false narrative developed that Leetch was "one-dimensional" and it started taking on a life of it's own.

People who were old enough to watch him play, however, know how special he was offensively, and how underrated he was defensively.

Lidstrom to me is so overrated. I know some will disagree and I respect that, but watching him play always left me with a "meh" feeling. Nothing about his game really ever jumped out at me. He had the good fortune of playing on great teams his entire career and didn't win any Norris Trophies until all the greats from the 90s started retiring or getting really old. He was already 30 years old before he won anything. By the time Leetch was 30 he had already won pretty much everything.
 
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Scott r

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Feb 10, 2021
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Open up minds....try to. Zubov was better then leetch and had more points in 93 94. That was a messier pushed trade to get rid of zubov. Bad bad move. Im not a big fan of smaller defenseman. Open up mind..its not scoring and goalie...its alot of in between play. Let's not diminish the effect of bigger guys like McGinnis who by size in andmof itself is a huge deterrent. In today's game
.u don't need off defenseman. To Brian leetch fans...devils have 3 cups to leetch one...by having great goalies and a 2 way team forwards and defenseman. I ran across article has leetch rated 17th...hes not top 10.
 

Bryce Newman

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Jan 4, 2021
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Open up minds....try to. Zubov was better then leetch and had more points in 93 94. That was a messier pushed trade to get rid of zubov. Bad bad move. Im not a big fan of smaller defenseman. Open up mind..its not scoring and goalie...its alot of in between play. Let's not diminish the effect of bigger guys like McGinnis who by size in andmof itself is a huge deterrent. In today's game
.u don't need off defenseman. To Brian leetch fans...devils have 3 cups to leetch one...by having great goalies and a 2 way team forwards and defenseman. I ran across article has leetch rated 17th...hes not top 10.

I loved Zubov and that was a horrible trade. Agreed on that point. But Leetch was better overall without a doubt. However, breaking up the Leetch/Zubov combo was just awful. Those guys together on the PP were unstoppable!

As far as Leetch not being Top 10, there aren't even 3 guys I'd take ahead of prime Leetch, let alone 16.
 

NickyFotiu

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I loved Zubov and that was a horrible trade. Agreed on that point. But Leetch was better overall without a doubt. However, breaking up the Leetch/Zubov combo was just awful. Those guys together on the PP were unstoppable!

As far as Leetch not being Top 10, there aren't even 3 guys I'd take ahead of prime Leetch, let alone 16.
I loved Zubov. I hated when we traded him. It made no sense to me but he was not better than Leetch. That is a bit oif a reach in my opinion. Leetch was a perennial allstar an all NHL guy. Zubov was very good but not at the top of the top like Leetch. Swap Leetch for Zubov and Dallas may win 2-4 cups instead of 1.
 
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Bryce Newman

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I loved Zubov. I hated when we traded him. It made no sense to me but he was not better than Leetch. That is a bit oif a reach in my opinion. Leetch was a perennial allstar an all NHL guy. Zubov was very good but not at the top of the top like Leetch. Swap Leetch for Zubov and Dallas may win 2-4 cups instead of 1.

Yeah there's no way he was. And Zubov is a hall of famer. Tells you how good Leetch was.
 
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Jan 21, 2011
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Lidstrom to me is so overrated. I know some will disagree and I respect that, but watching him play always left me with a "meh" feeling. Nothing about his game really ever jumped out at me. He had the good fortune of playing on great teams his entire career and didn't win any Norris Trophies until all the greats from the 90s started retiring or getting really old. He was already 30 years old before he won anything. By the time Leetch was 30 he had already won pretty much everything.

I agree with you here. Again, we may get crucified for it, but Lidstrom to me was an excellent technical defender but not much else. He was very sound positionally, did all the right things, played smart, etc. Leech had all the offensive capabilites, but was never in the spotlight like Coffey, Stevens, Bourque, Darien Hatcher* (to me was a physical dynamo with the Stars - was severly underrated! were

I feel like I always wanted Cam Fowler to be similar to a Brian Leech. Both were terrific skaters, but Cam never really achieved anything more than that. Leech really did do it all. Skate, Shoot, PPQB, strong leader.. just overshadowed by Mess, Gretzky, maybe Richter?
 
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Scott r

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Feb 10, 2021
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Leetch plus 24 career..chelios plus 340...huge huge difference. I think Brad park has to be above leetch for nyr...park was 2nd to bobby orr for many years. Leetch played entire career nyr...park didn't though. But a plus 24 is not impressive at all career...call it what u want.
 

Scott r

Registered User
Feb 10, 2021
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I loved Zubov. I hated when we traded him. It made no sense to me but he was not better than Leetch. That is a bit oif a reach in my opinion. Leetch was a perennial allstar an all NHL guy. Zubov was very good but not at the top of the top like Leetch. Swap Leetch for Zubov and Dallas may win 2-4 cups instead of 1.
Zubov hall of fame so let's not minimize this. Swapping leetch for zubov doesn't give Dallas more cups. Bobby orr who was the best or 2nd best player when he played won 2 cups..im not giving leetch more cups then orr..nicky stick to fighting. To further my point, before u tell me leetch would give Dallas cups....Gretzky didn't on kings...and gretzky is tons tons better.
 

Scott r

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Feb 10, 2021
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I agree with you here. Again, we may get crucified for it, but Lidstrom to me was an excellent technical defender but not much else. He was very sound positionally, did all the right things, played smart, etc. Leech had all the offensive capabilites, but was never in the spotlight like Coffey, Stevens, Bourque, Darien Hatcher* (to me was a physical dynamo with the Stars - was severly underrated! were

I feel like I always wanted Cam Fowler to be similar to a Brian Leech. Both were terrific skaters, but Cam never really achieved anything more than that. Leech really did do it all. Skate, Shoot, PPQB, strong leader.. just overshadowed by Mess, Gretzky, maybe Richter?
I didn't watch lidstrom play...but calling a guy who has won that many norris trophy over rated is not wise in my view.
 

Scott r

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Feb 10, 2021
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Wow looked at other defenseman career plus minus huge difference vs leetch. Nyr had richter....and still his plus minus rots.
 

NickyFotiu

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Sep 29, 2011
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Zubov hall of fame so let's not minimize this. Swapping leetch for zubov doesn't give Dallas more cups. Bobby orr who was the best or 2nd best player when he played won 2 cups..im not giving leetch more cups then orr..nicky stick to fighting. To further my point, before u tell me leetch would give Dallas cups....Gretzky didn't on kings...and gretzky is tons tons better.
You missed the point. The point was not that Leetch alone leads Dallas to 2 cups. Dallas was already a very strong cup contender. They won one vs Buf and lost the next one vs NJ. I believe Leetch would have helped them beat NJ and maybe more.
 

NickyFotiu

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I didn't watch lidstrom play...but calling a guy who has won that many norris trophy over rated is not wise in my view.
I'm in the very good but a bit over rated camp as well and the Norris trophies are what gets him there. He won them in his 30's after some of the best were past their prime.
 

Ciao

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Jul 15, 2010
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Brian Leetch was a revelation to Leafs' fans for the few games he played here in the twilight of his career.

He might well be the best defenceman to have ever played for the Leafs as well as the Rangers -- not so much for his contributions to the Leafs but on the basis of his entire career.

Even late in his career his skating was off the charts. I wouldn't say he was bad defensively -- he made some amazing defensive plays -- but he was exciting to watch. Whenever he was on the ice I always had the sense that someone would score, without necessarily knowing which team would do that.

He was always a pleasure to watch.
 

NickyFotiu

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Sep 29, 2011
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Leetch plus 24 career..chelios plus 340...huge huge difference. I think Brad park has to be above leetch for nyr...park was 2nd to bobby orr for many years. Leetch played entire career nyr...park didn't though. But a plus 24 is not impressive at all career...call it what u want.
The huge difference you are looking for is the teams they played on. Leetch went from plus 36 to minus 31 in 1 season. Did he just collapse over a summer? Or did the team decline? If Leetch was bad defensively why did ever coach play him on the PK as well as the last minutes of games?
 

Bryce Newman

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Jan 4, 2021
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Leetch plus 24 career..chelios plus 340...huge huge difference. I think Brad park has to be above leetch for nyr...park was 2nd to bobby orr for many years. Leetch played entire career nyr...park didn't though. But a plus 24 is not impressive at all career...call it what u want.

How do you not understand plus/minus is a team stat and tells you next to nothing about how good a player is defensively? After the 94 Final Pat Quinn (Canucks Coach) said Leetch was the best he's ever seen at steering the puck away and breaking up plays defensively. Better than even Orr or Potvin. Do you realize what a compliment that is?

The fact Leetch finished his career +25 is nothing short of a miracle considering the putrid teams he was saddled with the last 8 years of his career. He was very good defensively.

As far as Chelios goes? His PIM is extremely bloated while Leetch's is very, very low. That speaks to me a lot more about who the better and more responsible Defenseman was than plus/minus, which pretty much only tells you how good the team you're playing on is and not much else.
 
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Scott r

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I'm not a big fan of plus minus...it shows you goals scored to goals allowed while your on ice. But if leetch was plus 350....and others were much less then the argument would be that he has a huge plus minus as well. Why even have that statistic then?? Hes retired and has been so for many years...I guess its a moot point. As to quinns compliment...that's v good...but people say things all time. Bill Torrey said Brad dalgarno was next Bob nystrom....he was so so wrong. If quinn said better then orr..then he's a dummie.
 
Feb 27, 2002
37,882
7,942
NYC
I'm not a big fan of plus minus...it shows you goals scored to goals allowed while your on ice. But if leetch was plus 350....and others were much less then the argument would be that he has a huge plus minus as well. Why even have that statistic then?? Hes retired and has been so for many years...I guess its a moot point. As to quinns compliment...that's v good...but people say things all time. Bill Torrey said Brad dalgarno was next Bob nystrom....he was so so wrong. If quinn said better then orr..then he's a dummie.
Look—there go the goalposts!
 

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