ODAAT
Registered User
Burke and his shtick are old and tiresome but I`ll take his word before MOC 8 days a week. We can all discuss/argue about his return being stronger but ...
News Article: Brian Burke, Mike O’Connell feud over claims about Joe Thornton trade talks
- Thread starter HustleB
- Start date
I’m sure some of you know this, but did the rest of you know that Joe Thornton and Tyler Seguin had IDENTICAL 6-12-18 playoff scoring lines during their years with the Bruins?
I for one was very disappointed with Thornton while he was here. Maybe I read the papers and magazines wrong, but I expected more than six goals and twelve assists in 35 playoff games. Made it out of the first round once (1999) and had three goals (half his Boston playoff total) in 11 playoff games that season.
As I said, I expected a lot more. Wasn’t sad to see him go.
I for one was very disappointed with Thornton while he was here. Maybe I read the papers and magazines wrong, but I expected more than six goals and twelve assists in 35 playoff games. Made it out of the first round once (1999) and had three goals (half his Boston playoff total) in 11 playoff games that season.
As I said, I expected a lot more. Wasn’t sad to see him go.
I wasn't either. Thornton had everything- size, strength, speed, hockey sense. What he didn't have was the drive to win. I never got the impression from him that he was absolutely determined to win, whether it was a faceoff or a playoff game.
Trap Jesus
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2012
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Thing with Seguin is that he was always healthy. He had that gigantic start with 3 goals, 3 assists in his first 2 playoff games then had 3 goals, 9 assists in his next 40 games. So much of the blame for Thornton goes to that pointless '04 Habs series but I remember him being injured in that. It would kind of be like getting on Bergeron in 2012 when he put up 2 assists against the Caps while injured or something.
Greek_physique
Caron - Legit SNIPER
By the way... for me, Marco Sturm’s OT goal in the 2010 Winter Classic is far better than anything Joe Thornton ever did in a Bruins uniform (or anywhere else).
I say we won the trade on the strength of that one moment. No Show Joe never would have won that game for the Bruins.
I say we won the trade on the strength of that one moment. No Show Joe never would have won that game for the Bruins.
Fairly or unfairly Bergeron gets a pass from me because he plays his guts out every night and produces almost all the time. His career is liberally sprinkled with big goals in big moments. Thornton never did anything of importance here. Ever. If he had, I’d look at him differently.
As for Seguin... I’d be more than happy to discuss his massive playoff underachieving in another thread. I have lots to say about that, too.
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McGarnagle
Yes.
- Aug 5, 2017
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The organization never set up Thornton to succeed. He's not an ambitious guy, he's more of a path of least resistance kind of person, at least that's the vibe he gives off. For a lot of his career he skated by on talent alone and was never really driven to be the best. He actually played really well the year that Mike Keenan was here, and I think he needed that hardass coach to push him. Instead they fire Keenan and bring in Robbie Ftorek and a rookie Mike Sullivan, who let the inmates run the asylum. And not only did they not push him, but idiot Ftorek put the C on his chest in 2002, completely enabling his laziness. Joe picked up a clique of his guys, so that even if someone new came in and wanted to change things, they couldn't. By 2005 things were so toxic in the organization that someone had to go. It was either get rid of all his buddies like Boynton and Raycroft and risk completely alienating him altogether, or just get him out of there and rebuild. MOC getting a poor return is a separate matter, though I love Marco Sturm and Ference (a part of the deal by extension).
neelynugs
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
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don't forget that goal sturm scored late in game 6 in 2008 vs the scabs. sort of part 1 of
the bruins building toward a cup.
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
keeping thornton would have meant keeping the clique... keeping a lockerroom full of losers... keeping a dysfunctional enviroment...
keeping him wasnt the right decesion... but I still feel a little underwhelmed by the return. I dont think burke's offer is anything to get excited about. I think boston ownership didnt want joe coming back to 'haunt' the bruins so I do believe Occonnell was under orders to not deal thornton into the East and try to avoid trading him to a team that might likely make the cup finals to face boston there too.
brad stuart was a 3rd overall draft pick and was just 25-26 years old at the time of the trade. there was every good faith reason to believe he would be a top pair dman for us 5-6-7 more years after the trade. he actually was a 12 goal/43 point guy in the year of the trade. he was always pretty decent defensively too. Obviously his career sort of tanked right around this time... he would end up playing on 4 teams in just 3 years. They said his wife became a problem. Who knows exactly what that means, but it seems to me we might guess that home life got in the way of his being able to prioritize hockey?
Marco Sturm was a first round pick... very successful... he was in the middle of his 4th strait 20 goal campaign. he would score 106 goals in 302 games with the bruins over the next 5 years... thats right around a 28 goal per full 82 game season average. the worst thing you might say about sturm is he was already 27 at the time of the trade so he wasnt going to be a long term solution
wayne primeau was a character guy... and an honest warrior. boston knew their weakness was their clique in the locker room and the lack of compete those players had. primeau was around to fill a hole until he could be upgraded but boston had a plan they were changing the team. primeau served a small but useful purpose.
the deal ultimately didnt work out great but it was not nearly as bad as some want to make out... and burkes deal doesnt improve over it
keeping him wasnt the right decesion... but I still feel a little underwhelmed by the return. I dont think burke's offer is anything to get excited about. I think boston ownership didnt want joe coming back to 'haunt' the bruins so I do believe Occonnell was under orders to not deal thornton into the East and try to avoid trading him to a team that might likely make the cup finals to face boston there too.
brad stuart was a 3rd overall draft pick and was just 25-26 years old at the time of the trade. there was every good faith reason to believe he would be a top pair dman for us 5-6-7 more years after the trade. he actually was a 12 goal/43 point guy in the year of the trade. he was always pretty decent defensively too. Obviously his career sort of tanked right around this time... he would end up playing on 4 teams in just 3 years. They said his wife became a problem. Who knows exactly what that means, but it seems to me we might guess that home life got in the way of his being able to prioritize hockey?
Marco Sturm was a first round pick... very successful... he was in the middle of his 4th strait 20 goal campaign. he would score 106 goals in 302 games with the bruins over the next 5 years... thats right around a 28 goal per full 82 game season average. the worst thing you might say about sturm is he was already 27 at the time of the trade so he wasnt going to be a long term solution
wayne primeau was a character guy... and an honest warrior. boston knew their weakness was their clique in the locker room and the lack of compete those players had. primeau was around to fill a hole until he could be upgraded but boston had a plan they were changing the team. primeau served a small but useful purpose.
the deal ultimately didnt work out great but it was not nearly as bad as some want to make out... and burkes deal doesnt improve over it
Trap Jesus
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2012
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The "culture of losing" thing is tough. Like Chara was always the guy that couldn't get it done until he did, same with Ovechkin.
All in all I think the move on from Thornton benefited the Bruins, but there are so many different factors at play. If they don't trade Thornton, they don't sign Savard. If Bergeron and Savard don't have their injury issues in succession the way they did, Krejci doesn't emerge the way he does and the Bergeron/Krejci duo probably doesn't become the focal point of the offense for 10+ years.
All in all I think the move on from Thornton benefited the Bruins, but there are so many different factors at play. If they don't trade Thornton, they don't sign Savard. If Bergeron and Savard don't have their injury issues in succession the way they did, Krejci doesn't emerge the way he does and the Bergeron/Krejci duo probably doesn't become the focal point of the offense for 10+ years.
BigGoalBrad
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- Jun 3, 2012
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We got very lucky the cap was extremely low and we got not only the best defensive player of all time but a center who was just as good as Boston Joe Thornton in free agency. Savard was not as good as Joe when he cranked it up a notch in San Jose but he might have been better than a pouty Joe in Boston.
When the Cooke hit happened Savard was third in the NHL in assists since the lockout. Only Joe and Crosby had more.
Stuart was a 25 year old first pairing guy. Sturm was better than Andy McDonald or whomever the 6th best player on Anaheim was. As awful a trade as it was it’s one that might have gone through on a video game maybe you add a pick. Thornton was the best player in the NHL that year but only after the trade.
RustyBruins72
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- Jul 29, 2005
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This.
That trade led the Bruins down the path to the cup. Yeah, those years sucked, but I'm sorry. It was worth it for the cup in 2011.
McGarnagle
Yes.
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And if they don't trade him, butterfly effect, Zhamnov doesn't hit that rut in the ice and break his ankle, which means A. No space to sign Savard that summer and B. They finish a little higher in the standings and don't draft Kessel. No Kessel means no scoring winger for Krejci, no Seguin and Hamilton, etc. So the window closes a lot sooner.
BigGoalBrad
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Contract not being signed before the roll back was why he had to go.
Seguin was also traded because he was about to cost 5 mil more a year after his playoff no show and that combined with his lifestyle wrote his ticket out of town.
If Joe had been extended before the lockout he’d have been the biggest bargain in the NHL.
Kessel and Seguin ended up being 2 lopsided contracts in the teams favor that we deemed too much.
As a fan you can’t complain about this behavior when our top line is all drastically underpaid. Are we the best team in the NHL if Bergeron and Marchand are on Toews/Kane deals? No way I bet we dump Pasta like they dumped Panarin if those 2 had gotten market value.
Burke's lying through his teeth and being an ass clown as usual. If he had a legitimate offer on the table they would have rumored Thornton to go to Anaheim and he would have piped up at the time of the trade about it. Why he's even bringing this up almost a decade plus after the trade has been made baffles my mind.
I had always hoped they would have made a deal with Keenan; although, obviously wouldn't have wanted Luongo.
I just felt Keenan was a bit of an idiot and was likely to have been willing to give up far more than anyone else, but unfortunately O'Connell had a short term agenda in a situation where a long term agenda was needed.
Then again. as mentioned the butterfly effect is there, and had the Bruins made a different trade, July 2006 may unfold differently.
Yeah. IMO Burke is as you say an "ass clown.''
Some of the trades he's made should make him just keep quiet and thank God that
he's made such a great living at the sport he loves. Pointing the finger at MOC about this
is unnecessary at this point. He still was able to get Kessel from Boston in that trade (which he lost btw) a trade that he forced down the B's throats yet still came back to bite him in the ass.
On the other hand
O'Connell was a bit of a shallow thinker and was probably threatened with his job.
I could see Sinden telling him that JJ wanted to "make the playoffs (that) season" and
to not deal for futures. " You cost this team BIG with the contract you handed him and if you want to redeem yourself and keep your job MOC, get this deal done PRONTO!"
So he shit his britches, only contacted a few teams and made a deal in haste.
He probably was also afraid that Joe may fake an injury or do something crappy to ruin
a trade if word got out far and wide and reached his agent that "the Bruins are shopping Thornton."
The funny thing is how they did a similar if not worse deal with Seguin.
Seems to be a DNA thing with the Bruins organization.
If MOC etc were still in charge they probably would've traded Pasta for not being a "200 foot player" after his first year. Hopefully Don Sweeney has stopped this kind of organizational dysfunction for good.
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I always feared that if Pastrnak scored more than 20 goals when Chiarelli was GM he would have sent him to the Western Conference for another Rich Peverley type.
When Pasta was playing 3rd line in last year’s playoffs I prepared myself for the worst. Being a Bruin fan is such a fun time....
Would trust, literally, anyone's word over OC. He was terrible, terrible GM, a fraud, and front for JJ.
Brian Burke may be... Brian Burke. The same way Grapes was Grapes. I'd trust his word over many.
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