Value of: Brett Pesce

[LABound]

Kapanen on the 1st line?!!

Hyman...who the hell is that?

The lines are way worse here as is the defense.

It's late I'm a couple continents away it wasn't anything personal ....Kapanen is playing first line on the top offensive team in the league Hyman played there the last two seasons .

Not to mention he is the same core age same language as the other two guys on the canes .

Imagine ordering food a restaurant in Finland would it be easier if you spoke the language ....now imagine talking set plays or feeding each other info on the ice it would probually be easier ...probually

Hyman would make that line one of the hardest in the league to play against creating softer minutes for your inexpierenced/developing offensive players.

Kapanen is lightning fast shoots R plays his offwing Teouvo is a playmaker on his off wing it looks well thought out to me .

Nylander and Marner for what you proposed is a little lopsided and has no explanation?

It's nothing personal but at least have a counter if what I say is unfounded at least I thought it through and can justify its merit .

Nothing personal I'd love to see the canes do well why I thought about how it effects them moving forward which is clearly stated .

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Pesce is playing 16 min a night on the third Pairing

Nope. Care to try again?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

le


Just read the explanation it shows how it helps your team now and in the future
Pesce is playing 16 min a night on the third Pairing

it improves your offence , your depth your checking line
communication on the first line

Kapanen Aho Teouvo
Hyman- Staal- Williams
Foegle -Necas /Rask -Svetchnikov
Any combination of 4th line chemistry

Slavin-Hamilton/Faulk
De Haan-Faulk/Hamilton
Fluery- TVR/McKeown
Etc....

You can honestly tell me this is not a more competitive lineup maximizing minutes and skill sets?

And Pesce led the team in EV ice time opening night. Brind'Amour has the flexibility to spread the minutes around and he takes advantage of it. Jaccob Slavin got the fewest minutes at EV of the 6 defensemen against Columbus, for example. It's nice to have full faith and confidence in the 3rd pairing. That's been an issue in recent years.

That lineup is not more competitive than the one being iced right now. The team needs some size and net play from the third wheel on the 1st line. Kapanen changes the style of that unit in a way that runs counter to what the organization wanted to do this offseason (playing more between the dots.) Who cares about communication? Aho and Teravainen speak English just fine given their NA exposure. Hyman isn't much of an upgrade on McGinn.

Just because the Canes could afford to trade Pesce for that type of return doesn't mean they should or will. Hockey trade or bust. No packages. Carolina isn't hurting for more depth up front or on the blueline throughout the organization.

 

[LABound]

Yes. I'd rather have Ferland than Hyman. And I'd rather have Pesce than Kapanen. So I can "honestly" tell you the team would be better with that.

I get the Ferland thing he a favorite of mine it was purely value and to make room for Kapanen on a line with Aho and Teouvo ....as well as a need and replacement to play with Matthews. I get it .

As For Pesce he is playing 16 mins a night he should be playing 22+ thier is a log jam and TVR is too good and making to much to be in the pressbox or playing out of position
same with McKeown or Fox or numerous other guys how do they play ?

It's just asset management your lineup has zero Flow right now in regards to people understanding a set role I'm confused looking at it ...imagine what the developing players are feeling ?

Am I wrong ? Look at the lineups

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

As For Pesce he is playing 16 mins a night he should be playing 22+

Pesce has the most even strength time on ice per game out of all of Carolina’s right handed defensemen.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I get the Ferland thing he a favorite of mine it was purely value and to make room for Kapanen on a line with Aho and Teouvo ....as well as a need and replacement to play with Matthews. I get it .

As For Pesce he is playing 16 mins a night he should be playing 22+ thier is a log jam and TVR is too good and making to much to be in the pressbox or playing out of position
same with McKeown or Fox or numerous other guys how do they play ?

It's just asset management your lineup has zero Flow right now in regards to people understanding a set role I'm confused looking at it ...imagine what the developing players are feeling ?

Am I wrong ? Look at the lineups

Yes, you are wrong. Pesce is averaging 20+ min/ night. 20:14 to be accurate. And we don't need Kapanen with Aho and TT. Ferland is just fine.

But, I agree with you on McKeown and TVR.

So I propose TVR, McKeown and Julien Gauthier for Nylander. TVR is much better than Hainsey and on a good contract. McKeown, as you said, is too good to be in the AHL and is NHL ready. Those two will solidify the Leafs defense. Gauthier is a first round pick RH powerforward, something the Leafs lack in their system.

Nylander will cost too much, particularly when you have to sign Marner and Matthews.

It's just asset management. TVR and McKeown will solidify the Leafs D and Nylander isnt' even playing

Am I wrong? Look at the lineups.

 

[blinkman360]

What does the Hall Larsson deal have to do with Pesce and Nylander?

The only problem fans should have with Pesce for Nylander related to Larsson/Hall is Hurricanes fans asking why they are getting a player half as good as Hall for a defender similar to Larsson (on a better deal).

I think Pesce for Nylander is a fine trade as long as the Canes are happy with Faulk and the contract extension is reasonable ($7.5 million on the upper end).

Rock solid yet unspectacular/non-sexy d-man for the high-end scorer with potential for much bigger things. Granted Larsson at the time also had potential for much bigger things. If Pesce maintains his level while Nylander turns into a PPG winger they'll probably look back with regret. Maybe not to the point of Edmonton with Hall, especially if Pesce helps put them over the top, but still. No one wants to give up an elite offensive talent for a guy who is at his best when you least notice him, even if it does make sense on paper.

Still, I doubt they'll find a better D or a better fit for Nylander at this point in time. They already have the scoring to compensate the loss up front. I'd roll the dice if I was Toronto.

 

[LABound]

And Pesce led the team in EV ice time opening night. Brind'Amour has the flexibility to spread the minutes around and he takes advantage of it. Jaccob Slavin got the fewest minutes at EV of the 6 defensemen against Columbus, for example. It's nice to have full faith and confidence in the 3rd pairing. That's been an issue in recent years.

That lineup is not more competitive than the one being iced right now. The team needs some size and net play from the third wheel on the 1st line. Kapanen changes the style of that unit in a way that runs counter to what the organization wanted to do this offseason (playing more between the dots.) Who cares about communication? Aho and Teravainen speak English just fine given their NA exposure. Hyman isn't much of an upgrade on McGinn.

Just because the Canes could afford to trade Pesce for that type of return doesn't mean they should or will. Hockey trade or bust. No packages. Carolina isn't hurting for more depth up front or on the blueline throughout the organization.

Cheers thanks for an explanation Ferland makes sense. Still think that's too much going on on the right side but just my opinion well see how it plays out .

I love Ferland he is the kind of player that can change a playoff series good luck this year.

 

[LABound]

Yes, you are wrong. Pesce is averaging 20+ min/ night. 20:14 to be accurate. And we don't need Kapanen with Aho and TT. Ferland is just fine.

But, I agree with you on McKeown and TVR.

So I propose TVR, McKeown and Julien Gauthier for Nylander. TVR is much better than Hainsey and on a good contract. McKeown, as you said, is too good to be in the AHL and is NHL ready. Those two will solidify the Leafs defense. Gauthier is a first round pick RH powerforward, something the Leafs lack in their system.

Nylander will cost too much, particularly when you have to sign Marner and Matthews.

It's just asset management. TVR and McKeown will solidify the Leafs D and Nylander isnt' even playing

Am I wrong? Look at the lineups.

No you are not wrong it a good proposal but leafs need a Top 4 D now championship caliber ....TVR is solid but not Pesce McKeown also a great Add but the 3rd Pairing is not the concern with leafs it's the first or second and the value is missing a main piece .

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No you are not wrong it a good proposal but leafs need a Top 4 D now championship caliber ....TVR is solid but not Pesce McKeown also a great Add but the 3rd Pairing is not the concern with leafs it's the first or second and the value is missing a main piece .

Exactly!

And Canes don't need Kapanen and Hyman in place of Ferland and Pesce and value is missing the main piece as well. Glad you finally can see that.

Contrary to popular HF belief, Canes are trying to compete this year, not miss the playoffs for a 10th straight year.

 

[LABound]

Exactly!

And Canes don't need Kapanen and Hyman in place of Ferland and Pesce and value is missing the main piece as well. Glad you finally can see that.

Contrary to popular HF belief, Canes are trying to compete this year, not miss the playoffs for a 10th straight year.

That not ALL the value but kind of expected


.....The proposal was with the long term vision it would help set you up to contend in the near future ,
players that fit long term , don't interfere with development or take away ice so you can try to squeeze in a wild card .

Remove Ferland and Hyman ...... Kapanen -Liljgren - ++ are not good building blocks one that can play now anywhere in the lineup as well as other great assets to build a competitive team and develop and play guys who otherwise are being mismanaged .

I did consider the needs and big picture for you guys as well if you fail to see that .....it's okie dokie

I just hope when someone is forced out you get the right value .

 

[Puckstuff]

The leafs have two options in acquiring a RHD. There is the short term option where we can fill the void for 2-3 years; while we groom Sandin at RD. In this scenario, we can target Jeff Petry or Chris Tanev. The price will be steep but it would be 1st round pick + Johnsson, Grundstrom or Liliegren steep; not William Nylander.

Then there is the long term option. We try and acquire a Manson/Pesce type. I personally have my own bias and view that Nylander is worth more. I get Pesce is good defensively and we have a need; but Nylander is better defensively then Marner and he's versatile enough to play center. I always thought he had Seguin potential. It just has the potential to be another Larsson-Hall type scenario.

Personally my view is Nylander and Slavin are closer in value; or an addition is needed with Pesce.

While you may agree/disagree, some good discussion on the first couple of pages of this thread.

 

[Critical13]

I don't think I would want to trade a player like Nylander for Pesce. I get why Carolina wouldn't either, but I think they are underselling Nylander. Either way, the fanbases don't seem to be interested at least.

We will probably just sign Nylander and all the drama will go away.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I did consider the needs and big picture for you guys as well if you fail to see that .....it's okie dokie

Pro tip. Stop trying to tell other fan bases what is better for their team. The fans of the team know much better. If you fail to see that....it's okie dokie.

I just hope when someone is forced out you get the right value .

Agree. I hope you get the right value from Nylander.

 

[LABound]

Nope. Care to try again?

View attachment 145601

Tied for 87th in the league for TOI for defenceman

 

[LABound]

Pro tip. Stop trying to tell other fan bases what is better for their team. The fans of the team know much better. If you fail to see that....it's okie dokie.


Agree. I hope you get the right value from Nylander.

Asset management . 87th sorry tied for 87th in ice time for defenceman I guess I was bang on even if I had the wrong number okie dokie

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Tied for 87th in the league for TOI for defenceman

LOL. So that's your comeback when you were talking out of your ass about Pesce playing only 16 min / game? How weak. You are losing credibility by the post.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Asset management . 87th sorry tied for 87th in ice time for defenceman I guess I was bang on even if I had the wrong number okie dokie

What's wrong with 87th?

top 60 = Top pairing.
87th mean's a #3D (2nd pairing) at worst.

Given:
1) He missed all of training this summer and much of training camp with a lung issue.
2) The Canes have a deep blue-line so have spread out the minutes.

Your TOI comment is ridiculously irrelevant.

You started off with a bad proposal and now you are coming off as an ill informed poster. Way to go!

 

[LakeLivin]

Not commenting on the trade proposal, just adding a couple of insights on Pesce:

• Personality wise, he's the kind of guy you want on your team. I don't know how to quantitatively value that, but it will impact trade considerations.
• His offense really picked up towards the end of last season. He's looked much more dynamic so far this year, and I expect that to continue under Roddy's much more offensively loose system.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I’d honestly rather have Pesce than Nylander. If we’re gonna pay that salary I’d rather it be down the middle. I also like Marner better anyways.

There’s nothing in Carolina that gets the ball rolling on Marner.
Pesce for Nylander with small balancers on either side is fair. Nylander is definitely a C, just not in TO where they have their top 3 C set in stone

 

[Svechnicanes]

Pesce for Matthews with small add from Carolina side. By removing Mathews they will have plenty of money to re-sign Nylander. Plan the parade for both teams

 

[NotOpie]

Carolina would need to add to the deal, if Carolina was willing to deal him. Exactly what the add would be, is somewhat debatable. Above Gauthier, below Bean.... though I'm sure with a few tweaks, a deal could be done, if both sides were looking to make one.

No they wouldn't need to add. In fact the Leafs would....in the real world player compensation counts. Unless and until Nylander is signed for something akin to a reasonable deal (or at least makes assurances to whatever team trades for him that he will sign for a reasonable deal), his value is impacted negatively. Despite efforts to paint him otherwise, Pesce HAS played top pairing minutes and was damn effective as part of a shut down top pairing. He's on a terrific contract that nearly solves the Leafs salary cap issues. That add is more than a sweetner; it's a value equalizer....in the end it doesn't matter as Pesce is nearly untouchable for the Canes.

Nylander + a small add

Closer

Nylander & Holl/Leivo
for
Pesce

For the Hurricanes both Holl and Leivo are lesser versions of players they have in excess. So they're actually a negative.

 

[Fogelhund]

No they wouldn't need to add. In fact the Leafs would....in the real world player compensation counts. Unless and until Nylander is signed for something akin to a reasonable deal (or at least makes assurances to whatever team trades for him that he will sign for a reasonable deal), his value is impacted negatively. Despite efforts to paint him otherwise, Pesce HAS played top pairing minutes and was damn effective as part of a shut down top pairing. He's on a terrific contract that nearly solves the Leafs salary cap issues. That add is more than a sweetner; it's a value equalizer....in the end it doesn't matter as Pesce is nearly untouchable for the Canes.

"IF" Nylander is dealt, he will either be signed first, of the acquiring team will have talked to him, and know what it's going to take.... Of course, if he will only sign at $8.5 million, his value will be seriously impaired. My expectation, is that it will be $6.5-6.75.

Valuations are always difficult for trades, and in the end, your passionate presentation of Pesce, doesn't change that us fans don't affect trade values. Some of your fellow Hurricanes fans agree with you, some think it's fair 1:1, and a number think that the Hurricanes need to add.

Right now... Pesce is your third pairing RHD... note, I'm not calling him a third pairing RHD in the least, but that's the pairing he's being played on, at the moment.

Slavin/Hamilton
DeHaan/Faulk
TVR.Fleury/Pesce

It's a nice luxury to have, but perhaps not his best usage... I suspect Carolina was trying to move one of the RHD, probably Faulk, though who knows what they are thinking now that the season has started. But a guy on the third pairing, is probably not quite untouchable.

 

[Balthazar]

Pesce > Larsson
Hall > Nylander

Just sayin'

 

[GoldiFox]

"IF" Nylander is dealt, he will either be signed first, of the acquiring team will have talked to him, and know what it's going to take.... Of course, if he will only sign at $8.5 million, his value will be seriously impaired. My expectation, is that it will be $6.5-6.75.

Valuations are always difficult for trades, and in the end, your passionate presentation of Pesce, doesn't change that us fans don't affect trade values. Some of your fellow Hurricanes fans agree with you, some think it's fair 1:1, and a number think that the Hurricanes need to add.

Right now... Pesce is your third pairing RHD... note, I'm not calling him a third pairing RHD in the least, but that's the pairing he's being played on, at the moment.

Slavin/Hamilton
DeHaan/Faulk
TVR.Fleury/Pesce

It's a nice luxury to have, but perhaps not his best usage... I suspect Carolina was trying to move one of the RHD, probably Faulk, though who knows what they are thinking now that the season has started. But a guy on the third pairing, is probably not quite untouchable.

Guy sitting in Sweden unsigned during the regular season is not quite untouchable either.

Tough to try to devalue Pesce based on his current team situation rather than his ability when Nylander is in just about the worst team situation a player can be in.

There’s nothing in Carolina that gets the ball rolling on Marner.
Pesce for Nylander with small balancers on either side is fair. Nylander is definitely a C, just not in TO where they have their top 3 C set in stone

Marner is in no man’s land where Slavin and Aho are worth considerably more (positionally) but pieces like Pesce wouldn’t be enough. Hamilton might have similar value, but I’d keep Marner if I were the Leafs.