Player Discussion Brendan Gaunce (Canucks will not extend qualifying offer - Dhaliwal)

[rune74]

Isn't that a bit of an oversimplification, though? The best thing that can happen on a shift is that your team scores. It doesn't have to be the individual player pulling the trigger (though of course that helps.) The worst thing that can happen is that the other team scores.

Also, the question isn't whether to play Gaunce or Horvat, or Gaunce or one of the twins. The players he has to beat are those at the bottom of the lineup. They are those that are least effective in having their own team score compared with the other team.

This season the Canucks have scored a higher % of the goals at 5 on 5 with Gaunce on the ice (42.86%) than they do with Granlund (38.1%,) Gagner (29.17%) or Vanek (38.1%.) Of course he's also ahead of Dowd's one game (0%.) It isn't very good, but even though each of those three players score more than Gaunce, the team has done worse with them on the ice than with Gaunce on the ice. (Yes, I realize that GF% is a stat that inherently suffers from small sample size as well as differences in usage.)

Imo Gaunce deserves to play-at the bottom of this lineup. He doesn't score himself, but we don't see clips of him ignoring his man on the way to his own net to cause goals against. He doesn't need to outscore the opposition personally. He just needs to be less bad than the worst of the other forwards at the combination of avoiding goals against and having his team score. He's ok at the first and poor at the second.

Stats were from corsica.hockey. I would have looked at QOC and zone starts but the site started giving me consistent (hopefully temporary) error messages when I tried.

Your stats are flawed as Guance has not played enough games to make his stats legit.

 

[VanJack]

I'm liking that Gaunce-Granlund and Virtanan line....but damn it, would be nice if one of them could get on some kind of roll and score a frickin' goal!

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

This Gaunce phenomenon seems to be one of those distinctly Vancouver things that could only happen here. Like the outsize popularity of Keke Mortson and Ed Hatoum before him, and countless backup goaltenders tracing back as far as anyone can remember, it's always been the hapless ugly duckling that this city embraces. That's the best way I can explain it, but whatever it is, it is hard for us to resist.

 

[RobertKron]

This Gaunce phenomenon seems to be one of those distinctly Vancouver things that could only happen here. Like the outsize popularity of Keke Mortson and Ed Hatoum before him, and countless backup goaltenders tracing back as far as anyone can remember, it's always been the hapless ugly duckling that this city embraces. That's the best way I can explain it, but whatever it is, it is hard for us to resist.

Gaunce isn’t even popular. People just think he’s an NHL-caliber player because he is. What are you even on about?

 

[sting101]

Just a hopeless player.

 

[elitepete]

This Gaunce phenomenon seems to be one of those distinctly Vancouver things that could only happen here. Like the outsize popularity of Keke Mortson and Ed Hatoum before him, and countless backup goaltenders tracing back as far as anyone can remember, it's always been the hapless ugly duckling that this city embraces. That's the best way I can explain it, but whatever it is, it is hard for us to resist.

Noone thinks he's more than a 4th liner, but whatever floats your boat I guess...

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Gaunce isn’t even popular. People just think he’s an NHL-caliber player because he is. What are you even on about?

Noone thinks he's more than a 4th liner, but whatever floats your boat I guess...

Sorry guys. That post is completely out of context here. Not that I believe any of it is wrong, because I don't, but it was meant for the game thread and I guess I happened to be checking the Gaunce thread for a moment and I put it here inadvertently. I was speaking to the non believers.

 

[Verviticus]

Just a hopeless player.

"buhhhh why no goal score"

 

[Verviticus]

this thread is cool. someone puts in real effort to explain why gaunce should keep getting played and a bunch of people that clearly can't comprehend it reply with incredibly useless one liner criticisms. HE DOESNT SCORE GOAL

 

[Verviticus]

I don't mind Gaunce, his skating is looking a little better and he checks hard but I have to agree with what Ray Ferraro said.

He said it is hard to ice players who never score in today's NHL. The best thing that can happen on a shift is nothing. On a bad shift this player gets scored on. On a good shift he doesn't get scored on. But there is no upside that impacts a game. The upside is not getting score on.

ultimately the reason we pay the coach six or seven figures is to make the hard decisions like this. ya it's tough to expand past a superficial non-goal scoring but thankfully we (and green) have way more info at our disposal

 

[Cupless44]

I think Ferraro understands possession metrics but he doesn't think it is the only thing that matters in hockey like some here seem to.

In other words there are many better 4th liners in the NHL than Gaunce who can be counted on for more than just one element of the game. No reason in today's NHL that you cant check well with good possession numbers and chip in more than one goal and 6 assists in 92 games.

Virtanen starting to makes some rushes and things happen on that line but anything in the offensive zone or around the goal dies on Gaunce's stick.

 

[RobertKron]

this thread is cool. someone puts in real effort to explain why gaunce should keep getting played and a bunch of people that clearly can't comprehend it reply with incredibly useless one liner criticisms. HE DOESNT SCORE GOAL

Imagine how f***ing good he'll be once he puts a couple in, though.

 

[Cupless44]

Imagine how ****ing good he'll be once he puts a couple in, though.

Or cleans up the penalties he keeps taking.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

He was moving better than ever tonight. His line threatened in the offensive zone a couple of times. He seems to have undergone some fine tuning..

 

[sting101]

this thread is cool. someone puts in real effort to explain why gaunce should keep getting played and a bunch of people that clearly can't comprehend it reply with incredibly useless one liner criticisms. HE DOESNT SCORE GOAL

What's incredibly useless is this forwards ability to contribute on the scoresheet. He is hopeless It's not hard to comprehend.

He's 23 in the prime of his career. He knows the coach, the system. He's been even given the ice time people were pining for.

It's a results based industry. He looks like nothing but a push the puck down the ice stick slasher who can defend. These types are a dime a dozen and if he doesn't take advantage of this incredible opportunity he's been handed (tonight's benching isn't trending that way) then he will be out of the league pretty soon and rightfully so.

Sorry if it hurts the feelings of the people that thought he was better than Sutter. Forwards that can't contribute are useless in today's game.

 

[Verviticus]

I think Ferraro understands possession metrics but he doesn't think it is the only thing that matters in hockey like some here seem to.

zero people here think this, though

if gaunce was holding pettersson back or something id drop him at a moments notice, but he's not. hes getting in the way of guys like nic f***ing dowd, a journeyman we shouldnt even have

 

[Cupless44]

In

zero people here think this, though

if gaunce was holding pettersson back or something id drop him at a moments notice, but he's not. hes getting in the way of guys like nic ****ing dowd, a journeyman we shouldnt even have

I don't mind Gaunce actually. Pulling for him to improve. All Canuck fans need first round picks to become NHL players. I do see some usefulness on his game...but he has to pick it up and contribute a bit with at least the odd goal.

 

[iceburg]

I think Markstrom, and Nilsson for that matter, should sit in the press box. Neither has scored a goal in, like, forever...

 

[F A N]

What's incredibly useless is this forwards ability to contribute on the scoresheet. He is hopeless It's not hard to comprehend.

He's 23 in the prime of his career. He knows the coach, the system. He's been even given the ice time people were pining for.

It's a results based industry. He looks like nothing but a push the puck down the ice stick slasher who can defend. These types are a dime a dozen and if he doesn't take advantage of this incredible opportunity he's been handed (tonight's benching isn't trending that way) then he will be out of the league pretty soon and rightfully so.

Sorry if it hurts the feelings of the people that thought he was better than Sutter. Forwards that can't contribute are useless in today's game.

It's really hard to fathom. I posted a TSN article last season from Travis Yost about how difficult it was for Lazar to have the season he was having (when he was still in Ottawa). "It’s difficult to play hundreds of minutes at forward without having at least one puck ricochet off of your leg or something for a goal."

And I think Gaunce is a better player than Lazar. I really don't get it. He put up solid numbers in the OHL and he prove that he can produce offensively in the AHL as well. It should translate into something at the NHL level. I still expect a goal to goal in for him and then have him produce at at least a regular 4th line forward level.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think Markstrom, and Nilsson for that matter, should sit in the press box. Neither has scored a goal in, like, forever...

Good point. You don't see people constantly complaining about those two not scoring now do you.

Just looking for some basic fairness here.

 

[rune74]

So he anchored the line last night....literally.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

He's bottom 6 player on a terrible team that does not score. How many goals should he have? It's not much more than zero.

This player is a fun test of whether you understand hockey or not. He makes smart, useful plays that push possession in the right direction every time he's on the ice. His coach sees this. Many posters here see this. Other people don't look past the counting stats.

Obviously he needs to score. It will come eventually. He just needs one of those muffin shots to tip off a stick or a skate or something.

 

[m9]

I'm not really concerned with Gaunce as I feel that Travis Green has a good handle on the capabilities of the player.

When this lineup was healthy he was playing less and even got a couple of healthy scratches, showing Green sees him as more of a 12th guy on a healthy Canucks roster. On an actual good team, he's probably a 13th forward that can provide position flexibility, solid defensive play & penalty-killing.

With the injuries he's been given more of an opportunity, but it's just not happening offensively. Between the ineffective run of games with Horvat two years back, the season last year, and the start this year it's not just "bad luck" at this point. He doesn't have any traits that will lead to goals - he's not creative offensively, he doesn't have a good shot, his speed isn't great.

It would be nice if they utilized his size a bit more down low as a net-front presence - I do think whatever points he puts up in the NHL will be with him grinding in the corners and working in front of the net.

 

[Cupless44]

I'm not really concerned with Gaunce as I feel that Travis Green has a good handle on the capabilities of the player.

When this lineup was healthy he was playing less and even got a couple of healthy scratches, showing Green sees him as more of a 12th guy on a healthy Canucks roster. On an actual good team, he's probably a 13th forward that can provide position flexibility, solid defensive play & penalty-killing.

With the injuries he's been given more of an opportunity, but it's just not happening offensively. Between the ineffective run of games with Horvat two years back, the season last year, and the start this year it's not just "bad luck" at this point. He doesn't have any traits that will lead to goals - he's not creative offensively, he doesn't have a good shot, his speed isn't great.

It would be nice if they utilized his size a bit more down low as a net-front presence - I do think whatever points he puts up in the NHL will be with him grinding in the corners and working in front of the net.

You have just described a 12th, 13th, 14th forward exactly.

That is what Gaunce is, not a barometer of whether people understand hockey or not. We understand he has good possession numbers. We also understand he is a replaceable piece on any roster in the NHL that can be upgraded.

Personally I would rather have a player who provides what Gaunce does but can chip in 10 goals a year and a few assists. Yes the good teams have these players. Maybe someone who can finish a chance that Virtnanen's speed and growing confidence might create.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

You have just described a 12th, 13th, 14th forward exactly.

That is what Gaunce is, not a barometer of whether people understand hockey or not. We understand he has good possession numbers. We also understand he is a replaceable piece on any roster in the NHL that can be upgraded.

Personally I would rather have a player who provides what Gaunce does but can chip in 10 goals a year and a few assists. Yes the good teams have these players. Maybe someone who can finish a chance that Virtnanen's speed and growing confidence might create.

A few bounces, better linemates or more icetime, and this exact player, with the same skills, would have scored a couple last year, and might have 1 or 2 this year, and nobody would be hair-splitting like this.

He's spent his entire NHL career on one of the worst and lowest scoring teams in the NHL. He's played most of those games with AHL fodder for linemates. Despite this he's put up excellent results in almost every way except by the counting stats. His coach trusts him and is using him in crucial situations.

Jake Virtanen, by the way, has exactly 10 more NHL goals in the same number of career games, despite being handed many, many prime opportunities. But he's going to break out any minute right?