Breaking the Union

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by FlyersFan10*, Dec 24, 2004.

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  1. FlyersFan10*

    FlyersFan10* Guest

    Even though I'm pro-NHLPA, I witnessed someone yesterday who could essentially break the union.....Steven Moore. While everyone seems to think that the owners will cause the players to break, I think Steven Moore is the one person who can actually topple the union and cause it to really fragment.

    If Steven does file a lawsuit against Bertuzzi, I think it's very easy to see that the NHLPA will come after Moore hard. That might be just the break the owners need. Many players at the lower end of the pay scale will probably support Steven while many players at the higher end of the scale will talk about solidarity and brotherhood in light of this.

    The fact that the NHLPA hasn't looked after one of their own either is what I find most troublesome about this. So, for those of you who want to see the union dissipate, here you go......
     
  2. Dave is a killer

    Dave is a killer Dave's a Mess

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    that's a very well thought out case for splintering the PA into two groups ... nicely done
     
  3. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    How do they look after the needs of Moore without disregarding the needs of Bertuzzi? The NHLPA must tread carefully in this issue to avoid being sued themselves. Also, you give lower end players too much credit. They're not necessarily going to support Moore because they too probably believe in "the code".
     
  4. Polydorus

    Polydorus Registered User

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    The Lock Out/Strike/Whatever would most likely be settled before a court case was finished. Even if it is fast tracked Management is going to get more than their fair share of abuse from Mr. Moore's lawyers.
     
  5. FlyersFan10*

    FlyersFan10* Guest

    The needs of Bertuzzi? C'mon, the NHLPA wrapped him up and have so looked after him during the Steven Moore incident. What do you think lower end players see when they see this? They see that if you make enough money, the NHLPA will all but go out of their way to look after you. If you don't make enough money, you're yesterday's news.

    Fact of the matter is that Moore has had to pay for his own medical bills. The Colorado organization didn't step up and help him. The union that HE pays union dues to didn't help him either. Fact of the matter is that no one helped Steven Moore other than his parents. I don't know about you, but I know that from having been a part of the union, you ALWAYS look after one of your own, no matter how far down on the totem pole they may be.

    While the NHLPA may point to Colorado and say they should have looked after him, fact of the matter is that Colorado can point to the union and say "Steven Moore paid dues to the union so that he could be protected and that his health insurance, etc...would be looked after by you. Now, you're throwing him to the wolves and refuse to look after one of your own? Is it because he doesn't make as much, therefore doesn't contribute as much as Todd? Does that mean you'll do that for all players who make less than the stars?"


    Like I said, having been a part of a union and having been around unions all my life (my mom is a union steward and my dad was one), I can honestly say first hand that unions always went out of their way to look after one of their own. The fact that they aren't even touching Moore is more than enough evidence to lend creedence to the fact they are only concerned with the higher end scale guys.

    Congrats to Bob Goodenow. He may have unknowingly caused a potential union break. Go figure. We all thought it would be over the CBA, but it might turn out to be over failure to look after one of their own.......
     
  6. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    Or a combination of the two could be the preverbial straw that broke the camel's back... That divides the bottom feaders (the majority) and the mega-rich (the minority) - with the bottom feaders being more vulnerable, and thus willing, to accept some form of salary cap...

    I knew that I could learn to like Steve Moore... and who would have thought that something so good (a potential break to get the NHL back on ice) could have come out of the Bertuzzi **** up... "There's gold in them hills, Mary... Gold..." ;)
     
  7. shveik

    shveik Registered User

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    Exactly how did the NHLPA help Bertuzzi?
     
  8. Hockeyfan02

    Hockeyfan02 Registered User

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    I'm wondering the same exact thing....
     
  9. sakicisstupid

    sakicisstupid Registered User

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    i highly doubt moore would cause a stir among NHLers if he decided to sue bertuzzi. if his career is done, he has every right to ask for compensation from bertuzzi...something any logical/rational person would understand. but, things could go very bad if moore sues the NHLPA (which is unlikely from my POV) or if he sues the NHL (plausible considering his ill feelings torwards Bettman).
     
  10. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    I may sound a bit old school here but I really cant stand the fact that ''the law'' can get involved in a sporting event .

    I strongly believe that whatever happens during the game ''on ice'' should be settled via the league office .

    Moore should have known he had to face the music for his elbow to Naslund's head sooner or later .He should have been man enough to turn around and take his medicine from Bertuzzi when he was tugging at his jersey to fight .Instead he ignored Bert and the rest is history .

    interesting how the blow to Naslund's head isnt coming up too often
     
  11. alecfromtherock

    alecfromtherock Registered User

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    Todd Bertuzzi needs to be punished harshly so it will set the president for future incidents. Hitting someone because they hit someone on your team sounds like something a kindergartener would do.

    The NHL can say until there is a hockey season, Todd Bertuzzi case will not be looked at, therefor he can’t play overseas.

    Permanent suspension is a just punishment for Bertuzzi.
     
  12. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    I absolutely agree that the nhl has the right to set whatever punishment it deems necessary towards Bert so that it becomes a deterrant for the future .

    however , you will never get rid of the eye for an eye mentality in contact sports

    like I say , Moore should have accepted the 3 or 4 tugs to the back of jersey from Bert , turn around , drop the gloves and settle it .
     
  13. Steve L*

    Steve L* Registered User

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    He already had a fight earlier in the game, whats he supposed to do, accept a fight from the whole team until theyre happy?
     
  14. I can't believe anyone has this neanderthal stance. Since when is anyone obligated to fight? Especially for a hit that was not penalized in the game and one the league said was clean? Yeah, the Canucks were pissed about Naslund getting hit, but you know what, if Naslund had his head up he would not of been hit. It was not like it was a hit from behind. It was a clean hit according to the refs and according to the league. It should have been dropped there. The NHL warned the Canucks that there would be no tom-foolery and that warning was ignored by numerous players.

    Something that is lost on those defending Bertuzzi is the premeditated action. Bertuzzi and the Canucks waited until the next home game to extract his revenge. He did not wait until the next game. Now some are going to say that it was a close game in Denver, so nothing could be done. That's a load of bull. It was a close game in Vancouver when Cooke and Moore had their spin. That excuse holds no water. The Canucks were yellow for waiting to get onto home turf where they knew the support would be there for their actions. It was dispicable and something that everyone should think long and hard about.

    As for the whole he should have fought the guy routine, remember that the next time someone follows you out of a bar, challenges you, then beats you into a coma. If you had been man enough you would have accepted the challenge it likely would not have been that bad a beating and things would have turned out okay. Nice logic.
     
  15. FlyersFan10*

    FlyersFan10* Guest

    I can't believe someone said that Moore should have faced the music. He DID face the music in the game he was injured. He fought with Matt Cooke in the first period. That should have ended everything right there.

    When you consider that Bertuzzi viciously attacked Moore after the game was well out of hand and in the third period, there is no excuse for what Bertuzzi did. And you don't think the law doesn't have a place in the sport? C'mon. What Bertuzzi did was flat out vicious and was definitely criminal.

    I don't hold Bertuzzi sorely at fault though. You can bet Marc Crawford was sitting there chirping all along that Moore was public enemy number one and he needed to be taken out. The thing is this. Steve Moore's career, for all purposes, is over. Bertuzzi will probably get to play again and will make his 7 to 8 million a year.

    I honestly hope that Moore does sue Bertuzzi and we'll begin to see where the NHLPA sides. If there is a split, you can bet that union will slowly dissipate. And at this point, I'm willing to bet that the union will split over this issue.

    And I don't think this is one issue that is going to resolve any time shortly. I'll also say this. Bertuzzi's suspension was too light. He ended a man's career and he got the rest of the season and playoffs as a suspension. The man should have forsaken his career as well.

    We can all say that Steve Moore was a third line player, but we'll never know what he possibly could have done. If the league wanted to set a precident, then Todd should have received a ban from the league for good.
     
  16. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Whose attorneys do you think represented Bertuzzi in his hearings with the league? With his appeal of the suspension? Who will represent Bertuzzi when he seeks reinstatement?
     
  17. sakicisstupid

    sakicisstupid Registered User

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    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? Moore already fought Cooke! Bertuzzi SHOULD HAVE TURNED MOORE AROUND AND FOUGHT HIM RATHER THAN HITTING HIM FROM BEHIND! :madfire:
     
  18. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

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    he tripped on his stick
     
  19. Wow, and to put that comment into perspective consider a guy that killed in a car wreck with a drunk driver. It wasn't the drunk driver that killed him, it was the steering column from his own car. The drunk driver is absolved of all actions, right?

    Bertuzzi put himself in that position with a premediated action. He viciously attacked Moore from behind. Bertuzzi deserves everything he gets and then some. I have never seen a more cowardly act in any professional sport, and I got to see Teddy Green get his head split open by Wayne Maki. Bertuzzi was a helluva player, but he has committed a trangression that deserves the ultimate punishment. Banishment from the sport. People talk about a work stoppage being bad for the game south of the border, this event was a thousand times worse.
     
  20. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    I am also heavily involved in union activity. Bertuzzi is defended by the union when it comes to a criminal case. Moore did not file the complaint, so it's not a conflict. Had Moore filed the complaint and wanted to use an NHLPA lawyer, he could have. There's more than one. If Moore chooses to file a civil suit, the same rules apply. The union must represent both sides fairly and if they don't they'll end up in litigation themselves.
     
  21. shveik

    shveik Registered User

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    And perhaps you think that government supports criminals by providing them with public defenders? This certainly is not a conflict that could split the union, and NHLPA did not take sides in it clearly either.

    A more interesting question touched on in this thread, is why Moore's health coverage is so poor? Shouldn't injuries like this be covered?
     
  22. FlyersFan10*

    FlyersFan10* Guest

    The question is WHO covers it. Should the Colorado Avalanche cover the cost of the medical expenses because Moore was a player under contract to the team at the time? Should the Vancouver Canucks cover the cost because it was their player that inflicted a vicious attack on Moore that has left him damaged? Or should it be the Player's Association who cover the cost because Steve is a member? I'd say that the onus should fall on the Canucks organization, but they won't touch it. Fact of the matter is that Moore can be considered an independent contractor and that who ever he pays dues to should be covering his expenses. That would be the union in this case.

    What's funny about all of this, is that Moore hasn't said squat about the union, so you can bet that he's getting ready to file a lawsuit and then the fur will really begin to fly. However, what I also find odd about this, was that Moore was being run all night that game and he had asked Granato to pull him out of the game. Granato denied that, saying he didn't want to out his star players. To me, it kind of seems that Granato may have led Moore to the slaughter. It's kind of sad really. The kid was playing his game and he ends up losing his career out of this.
     
  23. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    If Moore chooses to sue and he wishes to do it right, he will name the following in the suit and let them go to court to get out of the suit:
    Vancouver Canucks
    Todd Bertuzzi
    Mark Crawford
    Brian Burke
    Colorado Avalanche (unsafe working conditions)
    Tony Granato
    NHL
    The referees of the game
    The zamboni driver (bumps on ice may have caused facial lacerations)
    I'm probably missing a few
     
  24. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Please go back and re-read the posts. The question was asked "Exactly how did the NHLPA help Betuzzi." I answered the question. No one said a word about "support" until you inserted it into the issue.
     
  25. shveik

    shveik Registered User

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    Oops, I apologize. The part about support should've been directed to the thread starting post. Thanks for answering my question. :blush:
     
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