Breaking down the Amateur Scout staff

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Ziostilon, Oct 16, 2013.

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  1. Ziostilon

    Ziostilon Registered User

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    [​IMG]
    Sergei Chibisov- Have been with the Canucks since 1995

    [​IMG]
    Frank Kollar- When Gillis took over in 2008

    [​IMG]
    Tim Lenardon- Have been with the Canucks since 2000

    [​IMG]
    Darryl Young- When Gillis took over in 2008, only two years of prior experience with Tampa

    [​IMG]
    Ted Hampson- Age 76, recently joined Canucks, was Dir. of Amateur Scouting with the Blues for practically two decades

    [​IMG]
    Dan Palango- Joined in 2009

    [​IMG]
    Richard Rose- Joined in 2005, 6 years of prior experience with 2 different NHL franchises

    [​IMG]
    Inge Hammarstrom- When Gillis took over in 2008, two decades of prior experience with the Flyers organization

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    Judd Brackett- When Gillis took over in 2008

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    Brian Chapman- When Gillis took over in 2008

    [​IMG]
    Ken Cook

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    Harold Snepsts- Joined in 2005

    [​IMG]
    Thomas Gradin- Have been with the Canucks since 1994

    [​IMG].
    Ron Delorme- Have been with the Canucks since 1986

    -------------------------

    Mike Gillis has been here since 2008.

    Utica appears to have little to no top six forward talent. We already know there's not enough skill on the big club either.

    I've always wondered if the Canucks have enough scouts, or quality scouts for that matter.
    Most of the scouts on that staff directory have been homegrown.
    Last I checked, the homegrown talent in this organization have not been up to par.
     
  2. LolClarkson*

    LolClarkson* Guest

    Ron Delorme

    Does he do pro scouting too ?

    Amature scouting has been ok. Just ask New Jersey, Buffalo and the Island.. :cry:
     
  3. vanuck

    vanuck #Gaunce4GM

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    I can't remember in what article or thread I saw this before but it seems there is little to no correlation between the number of scouts and drafting success. Conversely Buffalo have had a small scouting staff IIRC and they've churned out talent purely through video scouting for the most part.

    As to which ones are good or not I wouldn't know as it's hard to say who recommended whom individually. Though Palango has done very well since we brought him on board.

    --------

    On the topic of Utica's top 6 prospects, I would argue there are a few (theoretically). Not many, but that's because we've just graduated two of them in Schroeder and Kassian.

    Rodin was never the same after his shoulder and head injuries. But Jensen and Grenier are two that are going to get big minutes this year. There was also the 1st-rounder we traded away for Ballard, so there's that.
     
  4. BoHorvatFan

    BoHorvatFan Registered User

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    Fire anyone who has been here since before 1990.
     
  5. canuck4life16

    canuck4life16 It what it is-mccann

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    most of the talent are in junior and if the AHL allow 19 years in the AHL then both Shinkriak and Gaunce would be there already
     
  6. Betamax*

    Betamax* Guest

    I think their Pro Scouting has had more "issues" recently than their Amateur Scouting.
     
  7. Tiranis

    Tiranis Registered User

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    The 2007 and 2008 drafts hurt. 08 was scouted by Nonis' staff given that most of Gillis' guys weren't hired until later and given that he didn't revamp the scouting focus until that summer.

    Then 09 and 10, Canucks went pretty heavy on D and goaltending. Those were both organizational weaknesses at the time and the depth at those positions is looking pretty nice these days. (Not to mention the lack of picks.)

    So really, we've drafted majority of our forwards in the last 3 drafts and the guys from '11 are only now eligible for the AHL. Yet, a guy like LaBate who would be a Top 6 guy in the AHL is still in college.

    So, the situation in Utica is not particularly surprising to me.
     
  8. Ziostilon

    Ziostilon Registered User

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    that's why i mentioned quality of scouts too

    Just like how this organization is framed to attract players to come here. Should it not be the same with scouts too. It doesn't hurt that the Canucks can and probably willing to pay

    Who the *bleep* recommends: Stefan Schneider, Kellan Tochkin, Bill Sweatt, Eric Walsky, Evan Oberg... and the list goes on

    Don't give me the excuse of "they're still in juniors". Gillis & his bandit of scouts have had four drafts to work with + all the undrafted signings.
    And there's more than one round in a draft. What happened to Alex Mallet being Gillis' Andrew Shaw. Yann Sauve got beat out by Ryan Stanton for at least a sixth d-man slot.

    It's management's fault for trading away all these picks. If you're gonna do that, then that's fine. We have money and scout man-power. There's 50 contract slots + the ones that can slide.
    Go out there and find some talent. Don't come back and be like, we traded away our third rounder, but here's Bill Sweatt in return
     
  9. Ziostilon

    Ziostilon Registered User

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    In retrospect, do you think it was a good organizational decision.

    Now knowing that we have trouble scoring and just much of any form of offensive talent
     
  10. Tiranis

    Tiranis Registered User

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    I don't see what's wrong with most of those free agent signings (Stefan Schneider being the exception). It's like playing lottery. You see a guy that does well in college or junior and you sign them. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. They've hit big-time on Tanev and smaller on Archibald and McEneny.

    I think you need to keep this in perspective and look at some of the big time misses by other organizations around the league. There are many of them.

    Yes, I do. Offensive talent develops much quicker generally than defensive talent. Guys like Shinkaruk and Horvat might already be ready next year. Defensemen take a long time to mature.
     
  11. Virtanen2Horvat

    Virtanen2Horvat BoHorvat53

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    I do think we need to change up some of the scouting staff.
     
  12. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Start with the pro scouting staff. They are killing us.
     
  13. ProstheticConscience

    ProstheticConscience Happy Thoughts

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    Scouting has gone from abysmal to not entirely terrible under MG's regime, but clearly there needs to be a massive overhaul. I'd sit down and have a long, hard look at each guy's record when it comes to recommendations and the results those players have generated. Player development is a lot better now that it was in the dark, long-ago days, but yeah. Scouting has been an obvious sore point for far too long and I'm sick of the organization hanging on to people who just plain and simple haven't got the job done.
     
  14. canuck4life16

    canuck4life16 It what it is-mccann

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    just demote Delmore or fire him and replace him with Gradin
     
  15. Tiranis

    Tiranis Registered User

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    They did that last summer. Hell, they evaluate results all the time. I don't know why people think they don't.

    I mean, just look at the list on top and half those guys weren't even here before Gillis. Not to mention the extent of the reshuffling that has gone on.

    ---

    One of the quotes from January:

     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  16. canuck4life16

    canuck4life16 It what it is-mccann

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    I believe scouting budget has increased since MG came.....and probably continue to go up...I sure the owner will do anything to improve the scouting for prospect and all
     
  17. Upoil

    Upoil Zaboomafoo

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    I'd be interested in knowing which scouts have hit a 'homerun'.

    For example it was Gradin (correct me if I'm wrong) that scouted and recommended Edler. Does anybody else have examples of any of these scouts finding a gem? To be honest I'm almost completely in the dark when it comes to our scouting staff.
     
  18. Tiranis

    Tiranis Registered User

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    Dan Palango scouted Corrado. Dave Gagner scouted Tanev. I think Hansen was also a Gradin find.
     
  19. Upoil

    Upoil Zaboomafoo

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    Ah. I remember hearing about Gagner and Tanev.

    Thank you for this.

    I also hope that Palango has more under his belt than just Corrado in his 27 year tenure.
     
  20. Tiranis

    Tiranis Registered User

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    Hmm? He joined the team at the end of 09. Before Gillis was a GM, Palango worked with him as an agent (as far as I understand he worked for Gillis).
     
  21. biturbo19

    biturbo19 Registered User

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    While 2007/08 drafts did hurt our pipeline, i think it's now well beyond the point where you can point to that as the root of our problems in having quality top-6 players on the AHL squad this year.

    Players from the 2007/08 drafts who are worth their salt are already playing in the NHL. Guys from those drafts who are still playing in the AHL...will probably be playing there for the rest of their careers (or alternatively, in Europe). But those aren't exactly the sort of prospects who really add huge value for the AHL segment of the pipeline.

    At the end of the day, it's just hard to keep quality talent stocked at the AHL level, as the combination of the CHL transfer agreement setting the min age, and pressure to incorporate youth on ELCs into NHL rosters and the waiver situation for many players, makes it so the truly skilled prospective AHL talents often don't spend very long on the 'farm team' at all these days.

    Combine that with the fact that we still have a number of players taking longer development paths in college, and the fact that Gillis' 2nd and 3rd round picks have by and large been pretty awful, and the fact that we punted a 1st rounder off in the Ballard trade (along with the first half of that draft)...and that's how we get a hole there in the pipeline.

    And while next year is more promising where we could potentially have Jensen, Gaunce and Shinkaruk there...odds seem good that at least one of those guys will be graduating to the NHL.

    Having guys like Rodin and Honzik bust out completely, Connauton not really pan out, Grenier not really looking like anything, and Mallet being ahead of his draft peers in terms of jumping straight to the AHL are the sort of things that cause a real gap in our pipeline. And the extremely D-heavy emphasis in the later rounds probably doesn't help.

    Basically, it's the extremely poor performance in rounds 2-3 with bizarre off the board busts and poor value picks, combined with the missing half of the 2010 draft, and the investment in prospects with a longer development curve that's really created the current hole in the Utica team in terms of top-6 talent.
     
  22. B-rock

    B-rock Registered User

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    No kidding! Garrisson is a complete and utter bust! What a ****show that was......wait, what?
    -For some reason pro scouting gets no credit for this one even though they staked their reputation on it by signing him to a long term contract before he even played a game here.

    Higgins - what a mess....uh, wait, nope

    Lapierre...

    Malhotra...

    Booth was as advertised before he broke himself

    Ballard was bad, but i'd be curious to see how he would have done under a dift. coach

    Who else has pro scouting just "killed" us with?
     
  23. Upoil

    Upoil Zaboomafoo

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    Haha. My bad. I scrolled up to see how long he was with the Nucks and mistook Palango for Delorme. Which is really weird because they aren't even remotely the same. Guess it's been a long day.
     
  24. FloydTheBarber

    FloydTheBarber Registered User

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    If they had any say in this, this is a huge red flag. His contract is bad.
     
  25. David71

    David71 Registered User

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    fire all of them except snepts and gradin
     

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