Breakdown of Housley's system in dzone and neutral zone

[joshjull]

The poster said:

"It would be disingenuous to claim it was a new experience for any of last years Sabres to run a 1-2-2 forecheck in the manner illustrated in the videos / article."

...and you disagreed because and said that it was 100% new because "Bylsma didn't do it" (paraphrased).

His point was, they likely had experience with a 1-2-2 forecheck in the manner illustrated in the video before. Just not with the Sabres.

Fair enough.

I should have fleshed my point out more. That it was more about its a 180 from how they played the year before.

A combo of adjusting to the new approach + over all team talent level + rapidly dropping faith in the net minders = a not so surprising chief mistake in the neutral zone of being passive instead of aggressive when it was called for.

 

[joshjull]

A good example in the article about the talent problem is actually when things were read properly by the players. Larsson was forced to help gain control of the puck lower and wasn't able to jump into the rush to support the breakout. Our dman read it perfectly and jumped into the neutral zone to support the break out in the centers place. The problem? It was Justin Falk and nothing is likely to happen with him joining the breakout like that. Thats one area a guy like Dahlin should have a huge positive impact. There are other youngsters with potential to help there as well.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Wow. The article shows how we played a standard defensive zone formation and our centers played a standard center dzone coverage within it. There is nothing unique or more difficult in what our centers were asked to do. Its basic hockey 101 dzone coverage for centers. That you can't recognize baseline expected center play and think it is some taxing demand of a system is amazing considering the vitriol you throw at our coach over "his" stupidity.

I mean you are literally complaining that its bull**** that our coach is asking our centers to play the role of center.

Yes, its really dumb that our coach decided 3/4ths of our best offensive players should play the role with the highest defensive responsibility while surrounded by incompetence.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

In what systems are Centers not asked to have some defensive workload?

Not finding Eichel a Hecht has been a big miss for the organization.

 

[joshjull]

Yes, its really dumb that our coach decided 3/4ths of our best offensive players should play the role with the highest defensive responsibility while surrounded by incompetence.

Nice dodge of the fact that you had no clue what you were talking about as it relates to center play.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Nice dodge of the fact that you had no clue what you were talking about as it relates to center play.

What are you talking about?

My position has consistently been “Center defense 101” is too much of an ask for players you also need to carry around Pominville, recovering Okposo, Pouliot, Griffith, etc, and a wholly incompetent blueline.

 

[Montag DP]

What are you talking about?

My position has consistently been “Center defense 101” is too much of an ask for players you also need to carry around Pominville, recovering Okposo, Pouliot, Griffith, etc, and a wholly incompetent blueline.

Isn't that more of an indictment on Botterill than Housley?

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Isn't that more of an indictment on Botterill than Housley?

No, because 2/3rds of those players have experience on the wing.

There are some instances where Phil should be pissed at Botterill, how the forwards were used isn’t one of them.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Fair enough.

I should have fleshed my point out more. That it was more about its a 180 from how they played the year before.

A combo of adjusting to the new approach + over all team talent level + rapidly dropping faith in the net minders = a not so surprising chief mistake in the neutral zone of being passive instead of aggressive when it was called for.

Makes sense. The impact of confidence in goaltending seems controversial but I absolutely believe it has a big impact. I’m not a big advanced stat guy, so I may be proven wrong, but watching decades of hockey has me convinced.

 

[Icicle]

What are you talking about?

My position has consistently been “Center defense 101” is too much of an ask for players you also need to carry around Pominville, recovering Okposo, Pouliot, Griffith, etc, and a wholly incompetent blueline.

The stretch pass that Bylsma used garnered a whole 10 more points the previous season, but is an awful system with a low ceiling. Crosby/Malkin and that stacked team tried versions of it for half a decade and couldn't make it work.

At some point you have to blame the players poor ability/training/whatnot. If you really want to make the jump, you can blame the GM, but I have a hard time doing that given these NHL players were seemingly incapable of making tape to tape passes.

 

[Montag DP]

No, because 2/3rds of those players have experience on the wing.

There are some instances where Phil should be pissed at Botterill, how the forwards were used isn’t one of them.

I'm confused. The players you mentioned either did play on the wing last year, or were part of the "wholly incompetent blueline." What exactly are you suggesting should have been changed? Someone has to play center, right?

 

[joshjull]

Makes sense. The impact of confidence in goaltending seems controversial but I absolutely believe it has a big impact. I’m not a big advanced stat guy, so I may be proven wrong, but watching decades of hockey has me convinced.

I’m completely with you. I’m a fan of advanced stats but I also believe there are things hard to measure that impact things. Like the faith teams have in their goalies or in their coach, etc.

 

[jBuds]

I’m completely with you. I’m a fan of advanced stats but I also believe there are things hard to measure that impact things. Like the faith teams have in their goalies or in their coach, etc.

I can’t emphasize this enough. There are so many other things in play that you cannot quantify.

God damn, certain people here drive me f***ing mad. It’s unbelievably painful.

 

[Dingo44]

What are you talking about?

My position has consistently been “Center defense 101” is too much of an ask for players you also need to carry around Pominville, recovering Okposo, Pouliot, Griffith, etc, and a wholly incompetent blueline.

So we should move our centers to wing, then move wingers to center? It seems other than mentioning "stretch passes" you are complaining more about the players and their specific usage and the lineups than the actual system.

 

[joshjull]

I can’t emphasize this enough. There are so many other things in play that you cannot quantify.

God damn, certain people here drive me ****ing mad. It’s unbelievably painful.

Yep. The "why" of things is sometimes an elusive thing to pin down. Confidence, chemistry, faith or lack of in coach, faith or lack of in goalies, impact of a leadership group are among the many things that can impact a team in a big way both positively and negatively and are hard to quantify.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Yeah, that's what I meant. But no worries.



Agreed. Further, under Bylsma, I thought BUF consciously ceded their blue line and had their d-men collapse sooner / earlier in order to ensure less odd-man rushes.

Bottom line (or is it line up at the bottom?) - is there anything BUF did well last season (or at least at NHL average) other than lose games?

Did well..... The pre game skate and warm up? Lol!

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

What are you talking about?

My position has consistently been “Center defense 101” is too much of an ask for players you also need to carry around Pominville, recovering Okposo, Pouliot, Griffith, etc, and a wholly incompetent blueline.

Hey Struck.... You usually have some interesting perspectives on the game that I enjoy reading because it makes me question my own biases. But please stop digging on this one. You're already in too deep and over your head.

I'm honestly trying to help you here buddy....

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, that's what I meant. But no worries.



Agreed. Further, under Bylsma, I thought BUF consciously ceded their blue line and had their d-men collapse sooner / earlier in order to ensure less odd-man rushes.

Bottom line (or is it line up at the bottom?) - is there anything BUF did well last season (or at least at NHL average) other than lose games?

Game after game we were able to dress enough bodies for a game to take place. That has to count for something.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This summer on the Sabres board is an absolute mess right now. Now there is criticism for playing guys at C. Yeah, just playing players at the center position...because...because Housley sucks. Yeah that's why Housley sucks...because of stuff...

Time for a sabbatical.

 

[jc17]

This summer on the Sabres board is an absolute mess right now. Now there is criticism for playing guys at C. Yeah, just playing players at the center position...because...because Housley sucks. Yeah that's why Housley sucks...because of stuff...

Time for a sabbatical.

Is it time for a "This message message board is an absolute mess right now" thread?

 

[5 Minute Major]

This summer on the Sabres board is an absolute mess right now. Now there is criticism for playing guys at C. Yeah, just playing players at the center position...because...because Housley sucks. Yeah that's why Housley sucks...because of stuff...

Time for a sabbatical.

I said as much yesterday.

The same people complaining just to complain. It isn’t fun talking hockey.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I can’t emphasize this enough. There are so many other things in play that you cannot quantify.

God damn, certain people here drive me ****ing mad. It’s unbelievably painful.

if you cant post it in a hero chart its a fake stat

 

[tsujimoto74]

Is it time for a "This message message board is an absolute mess right now" thread?

Time to bump the "we need to be better" thread

 

[Fezzy126]

There seems to be a massive misunderstanding between controlled and uncontrolled (or pressured) zone exits in this thread. Bylsma's stretch passing 'system' was a controlled exit strategy that drove me nuts (it was seemingly his only one). Uncontrolled exits are really not unique for each coach, system, or even level of hockey. They all use very similar communication, reads, and reactions with only minor positioning variances.

Every player on our team is capable of executing basic support and zone exit strategies, the problem is consistently doing it with the limited time and space available at this level. I think it's both a talent and a youth issue, and probably amplified by poor player development over the past few years.

A good example in the article about the talent problem is actually when things were read properly by the players. Larsson was forced to help gain control of the puck lower and wasn't able to jump into the rush to support the breakout. Our dman read it perfectly and jumped into the neutral zone to support the break out in the centers place. The problem? It was Justin Falk and nothing is likely to happen with him joining the breakout like that. Thats one area a guy like Dahlin should have a huge positive impact. There are other youngsters with potential to help there as well.

That video will trigger PTSD for some fans

irst off, coaching is so much more than running systems. I recall a game in October against the Islanders, being down 1-0 in the second. We go on the PP, but surrender a quick shorty. Seconds later, we give up another shorty. Any ****ing coach worth his salt calls a timeout in that situation, settles the team down. Coach Phil? Na, **** that, timeouts are for wussies. Of course, seconds after that, after the PP ends and Buffalo struggles to execute an effective line change as the Islander score yet again. Then he calls a timeout. Nope, too late moron, game over.

Just an FYI - I don't think any coaches have used their timeout in that fashion since the inception of the coaches challenge. No coach will risk the ability to take away a goal later in the game.

 

[BuzzKillington90]

I said as much yesterday.

The same people complaining just to complain. It isn’t fun talking hockey.

Amen.