Player Discussion Brandon Sutter. Defensive Center. One More Year Remaining at $4.375 AAV (w/ M-NTC).

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Sutter sucks. I recall seeing him float around during the playoffs, barely moving his feet, whenever he was on the forecheck. Maybe he could get away with this in the regular season, but these were playoff games. Unless he was injured (hard to believe after 5 months of rest), his compete level and motor seem pretty lousy.
Sutters a good btm 6 player. It's just that his groin/core is done. He was really good against Minny rested and healthy and then started to decline against St.Louis. By the Vegas series he just couldn't get away from anyone

Schaller and Fantenberg those are the guys that suck. Age related decline and injuries eventually gets everyone. Sutter's has come faster because he can't stay healthy and now has the death nail a bad groin
 
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Frankie Blueberries

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Sutters a good btm 6 player.* It's just that his groin/core is done. He was really good against Minny rested and healthy and then started to decline against St.Louis. By the Vegas series he just couldn't get away from anyone

Schaller and Fantenberg those are the guys that suck. Age related decline and injuries eventually gets everyone. Sutter's has come faster because he can't stay healthy and now has the death nail a bad groin

*For <$1.5 million, sure. Even then though, I don't think he's a player you can win with if he's getting more than minimal 4th line minutes.
 

sting101

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*For <$1.5 million, sure. Even then though, I don't think he's a player you can win with if he's getting more than minimal 4th line minutes.
Under normal circumstances players get paid 80 -110k roughly per pt once they have arbitration rights and more so if they can create a market in the unrestricted yrs.

It's unrealistic to grab on to a arbitrary number that doesn't relate to Sutter as a player when his contract was signed. How would you ever get anyone to sign a contract like that outside of Covid and a flat cap?

Sutter was given too much money ( it was ridiculous he got more than 3.5 ) and sure 1.5 would probably be fair given how much he doesn't play today but that's a pointless hypothetical and we could use a 16/17 Sutter on a decent contract
 
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Frankie Blueberries

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Under normal circumstances players get paid 80 -110k roughly per pt once they have arbitration rights and more so if they can create a market in the unrestricted yrs.

It's unrealistic to grab on to a arbitrary number that doesn't relate to Sutter as a player when his contract was signed. How would you ever get anyone to sign a contract like that outside of Covid and a flat cap?

Sutter was given too much money ( it was ridiculous he got more than 3.5 ) and sure 1.5 would probably be fair given how much he doesn't play today but that's a pointless hypothetical and we could use a 16/17 Sutter on a decent contract

Agreed on the beginning of the bold. The issue with his contract is mostly the term, that's where Benning really screwed the pooch. That's why he's so overpaid now. Doesn't help that Benning likely thought we were getting a young, elite, two-way 3rd line centre with top 6 potential. He was set to be the Bonino replacement, at least. Instead, Sutter was more an average bottom 6 with injury issues, poor use of his line mates, shoot first player. Sutter's sole 30+ point season here was when he played with the Sedins, IIRC.
 
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Canucks1096

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*For <$1.5 million, sure. Even then though, I don't think he's a player you can win with if he's getting more than minimal 4th line minutes.

I think sometimes you get confuse the difference between a bad player vs a bad contract. I think because Sutter has a bad contract, you think he is a bad player because of it. Just because you have a bad contract. It doesn't mean you're bad player. Sutter is definitely a solid bottom 6 player. Min series he was solid all 4 games. Came up big in game 4 with a goal. Sutter vs the Blues I would say he was the 4th or 5th best forward in that series for the Canucks. Game 5 and game 6 he had 4 assists, great play on Rousell, Petey and Motte goal. He led Canucks on Primary assists at ES vs the Blues. They won both series with Sutter playing third line mins. Vs Vegas Sutter was horrible like most of the Canucks.

2016/2017 Sutter did get some time with the Sedins, played on the 1st pp unit but his most frequent linemate was Eriksson and Granlund during thst season.

Have a great night.
 
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Frankie Blueberries

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I think sometimes you get confuse the difference between a bad player vs a bad contract. I think because Sutter has a bad contract, you think he is a bad player because of it. Just because you have a bad contract. It doesn't mean you're bad player. Sutter is definitely a solid bottom 6 player. Min series he was solid all 4 games. Came up big in game 4 with a goal. Sutter vs the Blues I would say he was the 4th or 5th best forward in that series for the Canucks. Game 5 and game 6 he had 4 assists, great play on Rousell, Petey and Motte goal. He led Canucks on Primary assists at ES vs the Blues. They won the series with Sutter playing important mins. Vs Vegas Sutter was horrible like most of the Canucks.

2016/2017 Sutter did get some time with the Sedins, played on the 1st pp unit but his most frequent linemate was Eriksson and Granlund during thst season.

Have a great night.

You're quoting my post, which begins with saying that Sutter would be fair value at $1.5 million or less. I think you're the one who is confused here.
 

GiveYourHeadaShake

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Apr 6, 2011
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I think sometimes you get confuse the difference between a bad player vs a bad contract. I think because Sutter has a bad contract, you think he is a bad player because of it. Just because you have a bad contract. It doesn't mean you're bad player. Sutter is definitely a solid bottom 6 player. Min series he was solid all 4 games. Came up big in game 4 with a goal. Sutter vs the Blues I would say he was the 4th or 5th best forward in that series for the Canucks. Game 5 and game 6 he had 4 assists, great play on Rousell, Petey and Motte goal. He led Canucks on Primary assists at ES vs the Blues. They won both series with Sutter playing third line mins. Vs Vegas Sutter was horrible like most of the Canucks.

2016/2017 Sutter did get some time with the Sedins, played on the 1st pp unit but his most frequent linemate was Eriksson and Granlund during thst season.

Have a great night.
Agreed. Unlike LE, he belongs in the NHL, and could make most rosters playing 10+ minutes a game. But 4 years after signing his deal, with more than $10 million in cap inflation since then, he remains the ONLY forward in the history of the NHL ever paid more than $4 million a year who never scored more than 40 points in a season in his career. Massive, obvious, overpay.
 
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Canucks1096

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You're quoting my post, which begins with saying that Sutter would be fair value at $1.5 million or less. I think you're the one who is confused here.

What did you write below that? Let me remind you. You wrote I don't think you can win with Sutter if he is getting more than min 4th line minutes. This line indicates to me that you don't think he is more than a 4th line player. 4th line players are not usually on pace for 30 points a season.

To prove you wrong Canucks won 2 rounds with Sutter on the third line.

So because you have such a bad perception of Sutter because of his salary. This actually influence your opinion of Sutter.
 

4Twenty

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Minny was glorified preseason and Sutter had a moment or two. He was far from “really good”.

He used to be a really good defensive player.
 

Hit the post

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Hiding under WTG's bed...
Under normal circumstances players get paid 80 -110k roughly per pt once they have arbitration rights and more so if they can create a market in the unrestricted yrs.

It's unrealistic to grab on to a arbitrary number that doesn't relate to Sutter as a player when his contract was signed. How would you ever get anyone to sign a contract like that outside of Covid and a flat cap?

Sutter was given too much money ( it was ridiculous he got more than 3.5 ) and sure 1.5 would probably be fair given how much he doesn't play today but that's a pointless hypothetical and we could use a 16/17 Sutter on a decent contract
We got a good year or two out of him at least. Guys like Loui & Nogoodgranson were trash from day one.
 

Frankie Blueberries

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What did you write below that? Let me remind you. You wrote I don't think you can win with Sutter if he is getting more than min 4th line minutes. This line indicates to me that you don't think he is more than a 4th line player. 4th line players are not usually on pace for 30 points a season.

To prove you wrong Canucks won 2 rounds with Sutter on the third line.

So because you have such a bad perception of Sutter because of his salary. This actually influence your opinion of Sutter.

Yes - and by "win with", I meant the Cup. The bolded does nothing to disprove my point, and a large part of why the Canucks lost to Vegas was due to a lack of scoring depth, which Sutter should help provide (it's not entirely his fault of course, though).

I don't have a bad perception of his salary. Benning shouldn't have offered him a contract (with a retroactive NTC to boot) before he ever played a game as a Canuck; five years term (on top of his one year remaining) was way too long as well (I could get behind two-three years). His injuries would have tanked his value, and the last couple of years he would be a $1-2 million player, which would allow us to sign more UFAs now.
 
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Bleach Clean

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Sutter is done as a 3rd line player. Iffy as a 4th line player.

The smart play would be to let his 1 year contract run out, but I think they're going to buy him out after Virtanen re-signs. Just guessing.
 
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Catamarca Livin

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Jul 29, 2010
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Sutter is done as a 3rd line player. Iffy as a 4th line player.

The smart play would be to let his 1 year contract run out, but I think they're going to buy him out after Virtanen re-signs. Just guessing.
Hope they retain and trade rather than buy out unless they have a value target ready to sign cheap for 2 plus years. ie Hamronic for 2 x 2.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Just about every guy that Benning has traded for or signed as a UFA, who's still with the Canucks, is basically untradeable. And I include Tyler Myers on that list with his current contract and the term left on it.

So I was never optimistic they'd be able to trade Sutter, even in the last year of his contract, unless they offered a 'sweetener' in the form of picks or prospects. That's just a sad reflection of how much his skills as a player have eroded.

You'd like to think that a GM would learn something from his disastrous forays into the UFA market. But I have the uncomfortable feeling that if it wasn't for the fact that the Canucks are in cap-hell, he'd have matched those ridiculous contracts for Markstom and Tanev.
 

Disappointed EP40

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I think sometimes you get confuse the difference between a bad player vs a bad contract. I think because Sutter has a bad contract, you think he is a bad player because of it. Just because you have a bad contract. It doesn't mean you're bad player. Sutter is definitely a solid bottom 6 player. Min series he was solid all 4 games. Came up big in game 4 with a goal. Sutter vs the Blues I would say he was the 4th or 5th best forward in that series for the Canucks. Game 5 and game 6 he had 4 assists, great play on Rousell, Petey and Motte goal. He led Canucks on Primary assists at ES vs the Blues. They won both series with Sutter playing third line mins. Vs Vegas Sutter was horrible like most of the Canucks.

2016/2017 Sutter did get some time with the Sedins, played on the 1st pp unit but his most frequent linemate was Eriksson and Granlund during thst season.

Have a great night.

Sutter is a bad player.

He's an easily replaceable 4th liner that doesn't bring the intangibles one wants a 4th liner to have. That sample size speaks nothing to his overall ability.
 

Luck 6

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Oct 17, 2008
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A 4th or 5th round pick as a sweetener plus Sutter at 2.375M (Canucks taking on 2M) might be doable, but if they can’t, then buyout coming for sure. Canucks can’t wait till the deadline and have to shed salary to finalize their roster before the season starts.

I think we have something like 6.6mil to sign Gaudette, Virtanen, another defenseman, and a depth forward. It’s doable if we can get some cheap contracts, it will definitely be tight though.

I don’t see how a buyout helps us at all. We’re tight this year, but it will be even worse next year. We can’t have another 1mil of dead space still sitting there.
 

Crabe

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Jul 28, 2011
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I think we have something like 6.6mil to sign Gaudette, Virtanen, another defenseman, and a depth forward.

Dunno where you are getting your numbers from but after signing Gaudette for 950K we have just over a million in cap space left.
 

Bankerguy

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Apr 28, 2013
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I think the perception of Sutter around the league may indicate that teams would think he's some-what useful.
If 50% retained, I would not be surprised if he could be traded to a team looking to shore up depth w/ experience in the C position as a 12th or 13th forward
 

4Twenty

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It's still so mind blowing that he got that contract. Like, why?
The thought that in Pittsburgh the things that kept him a 35ish point player was no opportunity; he was blocked from offensive minutes by Crosby and Malkin. These guys thought Sutter was a 2C and used him as such his first season (when he wasn’t playing RW with the Twins) and had 2nd year pro, Bo Horvat getting Selke level top 10 usage as a shutdown player.

They had the read wrong on this player. They couldn’t see Bo wasn’t a shutdown player nor could they see he was actually closer to being a offensive 2C sooner rather than later.

And to cap it off they could see the player was better at all the same things they thought Sutter could do but was also half the price and carried significantly more trade value at that price than Sutter ever could.

Bonino is still one of the strongest even strength goal differential players in the league. Sutter is washed.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Yep, the trade came down on July 28, 2015.....To quote from sports news reports:

"The Vancouver Canucks are counting on forward Brandon Sutter to be a big piece of their foundation moving forward in the improved Pacific Division of the Western Conference.

The Canucks acquired the 26-year old center along with a conditional third round pick in the 2016 draft from the Pittsburgh Penguins on Tuesday for center Nick Bonino, defenseman Adam Clendening and a second round draft pick in 2016."

"When the games mean something that's when he's at his best, "Canucks General Manager Jim Benning said of Sutter. "We looked at the other teams in our division and they all improved from the end of last season to now, and I think this move makes our team deeper and it gives us a better chance to compete with the teams in our division and our conference."

With the benefit of hindsight, truly cringe-worthy comments from Jimbo. Of course he soon doubled down on this faux pas by re-signing Sutter to a four year, $4.4m extension....a contract that plagues them to this day.

Meantime Bonino, who was on a cost-controlled contract of $1.6m at the time, actually proved to a far better center in his own right. A demon in the faceoff dot, he helped the Pens win at least one Stanley Cup as I recall and could always be counted on for a timely playoff goal or an assist.

But as Big Bert once observed: "It is, what it is."
 

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