Player Discussion Brandon Sutter. Defensive Center. One More Year Remaining at $4.375 AAV (w/ M-NTC).

[clay]

Assuming Sutter could be moved if the Canucks retained 2M, leaving him with a 2.375 salary, this would be better than a buyout as he would be completely off the books next year.

I doubt any teams would bite on that. Maybe at the trade deadline.

 

[F A N]

Was listening to 1040 yesterday and I think it was Sekeres and Price that pitched the idea of trading Sutter for a contract like Tyler Johnson's (not exactly Johnson). The idea is you get a better player that helps the team now but has more term left on his contract. With the cap being flat for the next two years, this may be attractive to some teams.

 

[THE Green Man]

Was listening to 1040 yesterday and I think it was Sekeres and Price that pitched the idea of trading Sutter for a contract like Tyler Johnson's (not exactly Johnson). The idea is you get a better player that helps the team now but has more term left on his contract. With the cap being flat for the next two years, this may be attractive to some teams.

This would hamper us moving forward though. No way would I make that deal unless they are somehow also taking Loui.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

I doubt any teams would bite on that. Maybe at the trade deadline.

A 4th or 5th round pick as a sweetener plus Sutter at 2.375M (Canucks taking on 2M) might be doable, but if they can’t, then buyout coming for sure. Canucks can’t wait till the deadline and have to shed salary to finalize their roster before the season starts.

 

[BB06]

Was listening to 1040 yesterday and I think it was Sekeres and Price that pitched the idea of trading Sutter for a contract like Tyler Johnson's (not exactly Johnson). The idea is you get a better player that helps the team now but has more term left on his contract. With the cap being flat for the next two years, this may be attractive to some teams.

This is a terrible idea and just prolongs the Canucks cap problems. They need all the money they can get for next off-season’s big extensions.

 

[nowhereman]

Was listening to 1040 yesterday and I think it was Sekeres and Price that pitched the idea of trading Sutter for a contract like Tyler Johnson's (not exactly Johnson). The idea is you get a better player that helps the team now but has more term left on his contract. With the cap being flat for the next two years, this may be attractive to some teams.

This is just kicking the can down the road. We need Sutter's contract to clear up, along with Baertschi and Spooner's cap hits, so we can sign Petey and Hughes. Taking on longer term contracts for slightly better players might help make the Canucks a better team today but will just end up hurting them down the line.

I understand it hurts to see useless cap on the roster but we're just going to have to suck it up or trade actual assets for relief, which Benning seems hesitant to do (most likely due to optics).

 

[F A N]

This is just kicking the can down the road. We need Sutter's contract to clear up, along with Baertschi and Spooner's cap hits, so we can sign Petey and Hughes. Taking on longer term contracts for slightly better players might help make the Canucks a better team today but will just end up hurting them down the line.

I understand it hurts to see useless cap on the roster but we're just going to have to suck it up or trade actual assets for relief, which Benning seems hesitant to do (most likely due to optics).

I think the idea has merit. Obviously I'm not talking about a slightly better player with a longer term contract. That would be a bad idea. But there may be a good young player or a 28 year old type with a longer term contract (2-3 years) who is signed at a reasonable cap hit that a team is looking to offload. Not sure who is out there and that player may not exist but it's worth exploring.

 

[Peen]

Was listening to 1040 yesterday and I think it was Sekeres and Price that pitched the idea of trading Sutter for a contract like Tyler Johnson's (not exactly Johnson). The idea is you get a better player that helps the team now but has more term left on his contract. With the cap being flat for the next two years, this may be attractive to some teams.

I'd only do that if it were a gain on cap. If we moved out $10m of cap for a $6-7m long term deal, I'm okay with that.

Hence why I wasn't opposed to the OEL deal if they retained and took Beagle and Eriksson.

 

[VanJack]

It says something, and not in a good way, that with only a year left on his deal Benning still can't find any takers around the league. Sutter has gone from being a supposed 'foundational player' when he was re-signed to a 'salary cap black hole' today....just another awful contract the Canucks will have to ride out until the bitter end unfortunately.

 

[F A N]

It says something, and not in a good way, that with only a year left on his deal Benning still can't find any takers around the league. Sutter has gone from being a supposed 'foundational player' when he was re-signed to a 'salary cap black hole' today....just another awful contract the Canucks will have to ride out until the bitter end unfortunately.

Well when you went from missing 3 games over the previous 5 seasons to missing 165 games in the past 5 seasons your value inevitably declines.

 

[elitepete]

Can we buy this guy out already? We have very little use for him and can easily replace him.

 

[Canucks1096]

I think the idea has merit. Obviously I'm not talking about a slightly better player with a longer term contract. That would be a bad idea. But there may be a good young player or a 28 year old type with a longer term contract (2-3 years) who is signed at a reasonable cap hit that a team is looking to offload. Not sure who is out there and that player may not exist but it's worth exploring.

I agree the idea has merit. Kind of Similiar to what Gillis did and traded Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth. Booth would of been a solid 2nd line winger but wasn't the same player after the knee injury

 

[F A N]

Can we buy this guy out already? We have very little use for him and can easily replace him.

If Sutter can stay healthy I think we still have a use for him. He still averaged ~15 goals and 31 points last season over 82 games. Cap hit aside, a healthy Sutter is still a capable 3rd line player (who can play both right wing and C). We just can't rely on him being healthy.

 

[elitepete]

If Sutter can stay healthy I think we still have a use for him. He still averaged ~15 goals and 31 points last season over 82 games. Cap hit aside, a healthy Sutter is still a capable 3rd line player (who can play both right wing and C). We just can't rely on him being healthy.

We can easily replace that with a younger and better ufa forward for significantly cheaper.

 

[Hit the post]

It says something, and not in a good way, that with only a year left on his deal Benning still can't find any takers around the league. Sutter has gone from being a supposed 'foundational player' when he was re-signed to a 'salary cap black hole' today....just another awful contract the Canucks will have to ride out until the bitter end unfortunately.

He should've dumped him while he had that pretty good season for us a few years ago. Nobody would want him at the current salary now (except delusional CDC).

 

[MarkMM]

I think the idea has merit. Obviously I'm not talking about a slightly better player with a longer term contract. That would be a bad idea. But there may be a good young player or a 28 year old type with a longer term contract (2-3 years) who is signed at a reasonable cap hit that a team is looking to offload. Not sure who is out there and that player may not exist but it's worth exploring.

That doesn't address the issue. Running the numbers for next year and we're still in Benning's cap hell, it's not just this year but next year we still need to figure out how to shed cap space just to ice a team. M9 had a good post in the Management thread:

I agree the idea has merit. Kind of Similiar to what Gillis did and traded Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth. Booth would of been a solid 2nd line winger but wasn't the same player after the knee injury

Except Gillis preserved cap space to add players. When you manage cap you can improve the team. Benning's done the opposite to us.

 

[nowhereman]

That doesn't address the issue. Running the numbers for next year and we're still in Benning's cap hell, it's not just this year but next year we still need to figure out how to shed cap space just to ice a team. M9 had a good post in the Management thread:

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Except Gillis preserved cap space to add players. When you manage cap you can improve the team. Benning's done the opposite to us.

Haha, I was actually just going to reference m9's post, in response to F A N, as it shows a rather bleak outlook for our cap. The reality of the situation is that we're going to have to lose valuable assets to make this all work. It's doable but we won't like what we see. The bigger issue is that the kind of assets we will lose are the sort of low-cost plug-ins that will help support the core going forward (prospects, picks, ELCs, etc.).

 

[4Twenty]

Haha, I was actually just going to reference m9's post, in response to F A N, as it shows a rather bleak outlook for our cap. The reality of the situation is that we're going to have to lose valuable assets to make this all work. It's doable but we won't like what we see. The bigger issue is that the kind of assets we will lose are the sort of low-cost plug-ins that will help support the core going forward (prospects, picks, ELCs, etc.).

I'm not sure they'll lose any valuable assets. I don't see any teams actually wanting any of the multi-year deals like Beagle, Roussel, and Eriksson. Teams are just not doing that for players that can't play. On top of that, all of them have clauses that control where they can be traded. I haven't followed Marc Staal, but defensman are more valuable than forwards.

I'm not even sure you can predict which teams will be in that position to take on dead cap in 21/22 anyways, since Detroit, LA and Ottawa and have cap space and oodles of young talent.

 

[krutovsdonut]

This is just kicking the can down the road. We need Sutter's contract to clear up, along with Baertschi and Spooner's cap hits, so we can sign Petey and Hughes. Taking on longer term contracts for slightly better players might help make the Canucks a better team today but will just end up hurting them down the line.

I understand it hurts to see useless cap on the roster but we're just going to have to suck it up or trade actual assets for relief, which Benning seems hesitant to do (most likely due to optics).

yes. eating sutter's entire cap this year and also having a serviceable player makes better sense than impatiently buying him out and only getting half the cap relief next year when we will need it. if we do a buy out sutter this year it should only be because we have to to be cap reliant and preserve assets. we should trade someone for a valuable no cap asset if we can before we do that.

and if we do trade those guys, it should not be for term unless we have other cash allocated for pettersson/hughes.

 

[nowhereman]

I'm not sure they'll lose any valuable assets. I don't see any teams actually wanting any of the multi-year deals like Beagle, Roussel, and Eriksson. Teams are just not doing that for players that can't play. On top of that, all of them have clauses that control where they can be traded. I haven't followed Marc Staal, but defensman are more valuable than forwards.

I'm not even sure you can predict which teams will be in that position to take on dead cap in 21/22 anyways, since Detroit, LA and Ottawa and have cap space and oodles of young talent.

I think there will be more options next season, as those aforementioned players will all be in the final year of their contracts. The Canucks are in a bind this season but, hopefully, things will open up next season when teams have a better sense of the financial landscape. Or it could be worse. We won't know until then.

But salary can be moved. At a price. A potentially very steep price.

Just play Myers with Hughes all season, pump up his value and hope like hell Seattle bites.

 

[rypper]

When his contract is up with the team either runs out or through buyout, does he even get another contract offer, other than league minimum? Or a candidate for PTO?

(How many other players past and current can you say that about that have played for us since 2014.)

 

[sting101]

Sign Leivo Virtanen Gaudette and a 6/7 nhl D at league minimum and have 500k in cap left.

Ferland is then LTIR'd and when/if they can move Beagle Sutter Roussel or Baertschi at the deadline, or someone with a salary 3million or above is hurt long term. You could have the flexibility to then activate Ferland.

If Ferland can't return by then he's done and you can move on from Sutter Baertschi Spooner and Ferland for good

 

[F A N]

When his contract is up with the team either runs out or through buyout, does he even get another contract offer, other than league minimum? Or a candidate for PTO?

(How many other players past and current can you say that about that have played for us since 2014.)

I think the odds are that he gets a contract offer but that depends on his health and performance. A relatively healthy season at his usual production levels should net him an over $1M deal.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Sutter sucks. I recall seeing him float around during the playoffs, barely moving his feet, whenever he was on the forecheck. Maybe he could get away with this in the regular season, but these were playoff games. Unless he was injured (hard to believe after 5 months of rest), his compete level and motor seem pretty lousy.

 

[Rumsfeld]

This guy is such a bum. Complete softie too. Nobody is ever trading for him.