Player Discussion Brandon Sutter. Defensive Center. One More Year Remaining at $4.375 AAV (w/ M-NTC).

[Canucks1096]

I appreciate your trying to support your argument but here's where I see it falling short:

1. In 2015 (when the picks were exchanged) there was very limited knowledge of the projection of 2nd and 3rd round picks. This is true a year in advance of the any draft including 2019. Sure there are early favorites and a lot of prognosticating. But there is no material different in one year vs the next in the likelihood of success of a particular draft class, especially once you get out of the top 10 picks. When they gave up the pick in 2015, the only value they could calculate would be based on general projections of draft success across years. In 2019 Hoglander was available at 40. And, to further challenge the conclusions that moving down 10 spots didn't mater, there are at least 3 NHLers that went in the next 10 after the 2nd rounder in 2016.

2. Absolutely agree with the bolded. Sutter was just one of the bad contracts that has resulted in the loss of significant assets. That doesn't strengthen the argument for Sutter. It reinforces the fact that management made a bad trade and doubled down when they gave Sutter an high $$ long term extension.

3. If the point is that they could have moved the contract at 50% retention then your argument already fails. I never said Sutter at $1.5M or even $2M was a bad contract. I said his contract was untradeable until now, with weeks left, maybe. They still might have to retain salary. Again, that confirms the poor decision to extend him on those terms.

As a general comment, it isn't strong to say "they could have ("have" not "of"...sorry, a pet peeve of mine) if they wanted to". That assumes you were in the room and knew all the terms of the proposal. If we've learned anything, reports in the press only know part of the story. Sure, they "could have" traded Sutter for a 1st round pick if they added Pettersson to the deal...

1 I have no idea how this defend your they could of got a Hoglander type of a pick statement. The fact is there were no Hoglander available at that range. It's kind of like this. Baer got traded for a 2nd, people like to link Andersson into that trade because he was available at that range. 2016, around that range there are no Hoglander so it's fair to say they wouldn't of gotten a Hoglander. If you want to judge what could happened. Sure go ahead.

It really depends on what your definition of NHL player is. All 3 of those players never played a full season yet. Two of them were healthy scratches this year. 2016 draft, the players are about 23/24 now. At that point you're pretty much close to what you're. Sure they missed out on those players but those three don't really move the needle. If you want to use fringe NHL player as argument. Sure go ahead. Fringe nhl player is better than no NHL player.

2/3 sure it doesn't strengthen the Sutter bad contract. But you were indicating because of Sutter bad contract and others. They couldn't resign Markstrom Tanev Toffoli. I am saying it didn't have any impact .

Are you telling me Jim Benning said to himself. Because Sutter had only 1 year on a his contract, I can't sign long term contracts to Tanev and Markstrom? Schmidt and Holtby = around the same salary as Markstrom and Tanev. It had to do with term and not salary.

If you don't like to go with reports. Well I do. It was reported on The athletic that they could of move Sutter at 50% and trade Virtanen and resign Toffoli but they decided not too. It's just silly saying because of this bad contract, we couldn't keep that player and that. Sure you can give a general statement like Sutter cap could put better use.

Have a great night

 

[4Twenty]

Love Hoglander but how is he not in the same class as Dube? Pretty ridiculous. Grundstrom picked up a point tonight too.

Sutter’s contract had impact. Maybe it’s an ESL thing but arguing it didn’t have any impact is just wrong.

Because Sutter was still under contract for this season and next it limited the Canucks ability to sign players.

The athletic was speculation.

 

[Canucks1096]

I just want Sutter to go away. Beagle's contract sucks, but he's a better player for the #4 C role and I don't hate him and it doesn't annoy me that he's on my team, as a person.

Not sure why I am asking since me and you we speak two different hockey languages. I know I am going to disagree with 100% of your answer.

How in the world is Beagle a better player in the 4c role than Sutter?

Beagle will be 36 year old next year You think hockey players are like red wine. Older the better? or maybe bigger the better?

I am very curious to hear this one.

 

[Canucks1096]

Love Hoglander but how is he not in the same class as Dube? Pretty ridiculous. Grundstrom picked up a point tonight too.

Sutter’s contract had impact. Maybe it’s an ESL thing but arguing it didn’t have any impact is just wrong.

Because Sutter was still under contract for this season and next it limited the Canucks ability to sign players.

The athletic was speculation.

I am talking to someone that think Jarnkrok is close to a 4th line player. Lol

It was really funny you were trying so hard to convince yourself that Bonino regular linemates in Nash were 4th line players to win that part of your argument. Lol

Maybe do some research or learn how to argue.

Btw Hoglander made the NHL draft+2. Dube draft +4 still bouncing around the nhl/ahl. All 3 players hasn't played a full season yet.

I believe you might just be a casual fan. Don't follow hockey that much

Have a great night.

 

[iceburg]

1 I have no idea how this defend your they could of got a Hoglander type of a pick statement. The fact is there were no Hoglander available at that range. It's kind of like this. Baer got traded for a 2nd, people like to link Andersson into that trade because he was available at that range. 2016, around that range there are no Hoglander so it's fair to say they wouldn't of gotten a Hoglander. If you want to judge what could happened. Sure go ahead.

It really depends on what your definition of NHL player is. All 3 of those players never played a full season yet. Two of them were healthy scratches this year. 2016 draft, the players are about 23/24 now. At that point you're pretty much close to what you're. Sure they missed out on those players but those three don't really move the needle. If you want to use fringe NHL player as argument. Sure go ahead. Fringe nhl player is better than no NHL player.

2/3 sure it doesn't strengthen the Sutter bad contract. But you were indicating because of Sutter bad contract and others. They couldn't resign Markstrom Tanev Toffoli. I am saying it didn't have any impact .

Are you telling me Jim Benning said to himself. Because Sutter had only 1 year on a his contract, I can't sign long term contracts to Tanev and Markstrom? Schmidt and Holtby = around the same salary as Markstrom and Tanev. It had to do with term and not salary.

If you don't like to go with reports. Well I do. It was reported on The athletic that they could of move Sutter at 50% and trade Virtanen and resign Toffoli but they decided not too. It's just silly saying because of this bad contract, we couldn't keep that player and that. Sure you can give a general statement like Sutter cap could put better use.

Have a great night

I will only address one point, which I thought was clear. I would just be repeating myself to restate the others.
How do you know there was no Hoglander available? Only because it’s 4 years later. You don’t have the luxury of clairvoyance (at least I don’t think you do...). I wish I had held my Apple stock...I could HAVE retired early.

 

[Canucks1096]

I will only address one point, which I thought was clear. I would just be repeating myself to restate the others.
How do you know there was no Hoglander available? Only because it’s 4 years later. You don’t have the luxury of clairvoyance (at least I don’t think you do...). I wish I had held my Apple stock...I could HAVE retired early.

You're right, I guess we won't know what kind of player Lockwood is as well. Lockwood might become the next Geoff Courtnall. I guess we can't really judge the trade until another 10 years or so. See you in 10 years.

Btw I did keep my apple stocks and I will probably be semi retire in about 5 years

 

[Nucker101]

Having a mediocre/slow, skinny player on your 4th line is not what you want. I don’t want him back.

 

[53or8]

Surely there are other fourth line centres that could be signed instead?

This is kind of like resigning Eriksson to a $800,000 contract...sure maybe it's not the worst option for a bottom 6 winger, but why?

I'd take him at 800,000 he owes us

 

[iceburg]

Nvm

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Nah. Don't think we can really draw any conclusions. But he tends to be much more productive when his team wins. This season, his possession stats suggest that he's better when the game is close or when his team is tied or behind than when his team has the lead. His career regular season average over 82 games is 16 goals and 31 points. His career playoff average over 82 games (smallish sample size) is 15 goals 30 points with some good playoff performances in the past. When healthy, his overall offensive production is also rather consistent. He is what he is. No need to twist the narrative to make him seem like a player who is noticeably better during garbage time.

No narrative. Just thinking out loud.

Maybe its just the loud instances of him turning in to a pretty decent player once we are out of the playoffs these past years.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

1 I have no idea how this defend your they could of got a Hoglander type of a pick statement. The fact is there were no Hoglander available at that range. It's kind of like this. Baer got traded for a 2nd, people like to link Andersson into that trade because he was available at that range. 2016, around that range there are no Hoglander so it's fair to say they wouldn't of gotten a Hoglander. If you want to judge what could happened. Sure go ahead.

It really depends on what your definition of NHL player is. All 3 of those players never played a full season yet. Two of them were healthy scratches this year. 2016 draft, the players are about 23/24 now. At that point you're pretty much close to what you're. Sure they missed out on those players but those three don't really move the needle. If you want to use fringe NHL player as argument. Sure go ahead. Fringe nhl player is better than no NHL player.

2/3 sure it doesn't strengthen the Sutter bad contract. But you were indicating because of Sutter bad contract and others. They couldn't resign Markstrom Tanev Toffoli. I am saying it didn't have any impact .

Are you telling me Jim Benning said to himself. Because Sutter had only 1 year on a his contract, I can't sign long term contracts to Tanev and Markstrom? Schmidt and Holtby = around the same salary as Markstrom and Tanev. It had to do with term and not salary.

If you don't like to go with reports. Well I do. It was reported on The athletic that they could of move Sutter at 50% and trade Virtanen and resign Toffoli but they decided not too. It's just silly saying because of this bad contract, we couldn't keep that player and that. Sure you can give a general statement like Sutter cap could put better use.

Have a great night

stopped reading here.

it absolutely had an impact.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Not sure why I am asking since me and you we speak two different hockey languages. I know I am going to disagree with 100% of your answer.

How in the world is Beagle a better player in the 4c role than Sutter?

Beagle will be 36 year old next year You think hockey players are like red wine. Older the better? or maybe bigger the better?

I am very curious to hear this one.

no matter how good sutter is, (and he isn't really) it doesn't make up for how bad he makes his line-mates.

 

[M2Beezy]

I wonder when they will announce the re signing of Sutter? Surely before the TDL

 

[iceburg]

This thread has a parallel universe feel to it. A place where anti-logic reigns, where up is down and down is up.
Reminds me of a Red Dwarf episode where everything went in reverse...

 

[M2Beezy]

This thread has a parallel universe feel to it. A place where anti-logic reigns, where up is down and down is up.
Reminds me of a Red Dwarf episode where everything went in reverse...

Brock Boeser

 

[Breakers]

10,000% NO on resigning.

32 years old. This is his last real value contract.
Plus he is represented by Newport.
Guy has been here 6 seasons and nobody can tell me anything he has done since being here.

My only memory of Sutter was when he went point per game in the final 10 games of the season and ruined our draft spot.
That's it. I believe it was 2018

 

[F A N]

No narrative. Just thinking out loud.

Maybe its just the loud instances of him turning in to a pretty decent player once we are out of the playoffs these past years.

Except that Sutter's offensive production doesn't reflect those loud instances you're referring to. Last season, Sutter's most productive months were in October and February. Previous season it was in October and then he got injured and barely played afterwards. The only season as a Canuck where he was most productive when the team was out of the playoffs was in 17-18. If anything, Sutter seems to have decent starts to his seasons.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Except that Sutter's offensive production doesn't reflect those loud instances you're referring to. Last season, Sutter's most productive months were in October and February. Previous season it was in October and then he got injured and barely played afterwards. The only season as a Canuck where he was most productive when the team was out of the playoffs was in 17-18. If anything, Sutter seems to have decent starts to his seasons.

I stand corrected then.

Im going to be brutally honest... This current iteration of Canucks has me utterly disinterested to the point where I cant be arsed to do due diligence anymore before I post. Im sorry about this.

 

[David71]

time to trade him to a playoff team. salary retention? for a pick

 

[M2Beezy]

time to trade him to a playoff team. salary retention? for a pick

Sutter at 50% for a 7th?

 

[Hit the post]

This thread has a parallel universe feel to it. A place where anti-logic reigns, where up is down and down is up.
Reminds me of a Red Dwarf episode where everything went in reverse...

Mr C.....your agonizer please...

 

[ginner classic]

I'd be happy to get a legitimate project like Juulsen and a late pick. Ecstatic in fact.

 

[Hit the post]

I'd be happy to get a legitimate project like Juulsen and a late pick. Ecstatic in fact.

Corrado (Uncle Junior) Soprano: "I'd like to **** Angie Dickson; let's see who gets lucky first".

 

[iceburg]

Mr C.....your agonizer please...

Perfect

 

[David71]

Sutter at 50% for a 7th?

3rd