Brandon Saad 2018-19 expectations

Brandon Saad 2018-19 expectations


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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
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You're not wrong, lol. Some are so disgruntled with Toews' performance over the last few seasons that they're grasping for straws. Hawks have only one solution, short term anyway, and that's Toews lifting his game.

I never said he’s wrong.

I’m saying you have two options:

1. Keep Toews role the same, and expect 2nd line center production. Saying “Toews needs to raise his game.” and not adding a Hossa replacement (which is damn near impossible) has gotten us nowhere in three years.

2. Change Toews’ role to be more offensively focused, and expect 60 point+ 1C production.
 
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piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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You're not wrong, lol. Some are so disgruntled with Toews' performance over the last few seasons that they're grasping for straws. Hawks have only one solution, short term anyway, and that's Toews lifting his game.
In evaluating Toews, you can't just look at his performance in a vacuum. If that was the case, of course the Hawks would keep him. However, in a hard capped sport, you have to also look at his $10.5mn hit. You have to look at the opportunity costs.

IF you can trade Toews' contract, who can you get for that $10.5mn? Panarin? Who else will sign for $10.5mn?

What you say is right ... with his NMC and $10.5mn cap hit, there's only one solution: Toews needs to play better. HOWEVER, Jonathan Toews deserves all the criticism. I don't blame him for taking the money ... but with that contract comes higher expectations. Toews underperformed massively and the Hawks struggled because of it. Due to the hard cap, it's not like the Hawks easily "replace" the production.

It's understandable Toews will be the ire of many fans and deservedly so.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
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London, Ont.
Washington had Jay Beagle do it, Boston had Schaller/Riley Nash do it (not the Selke winner), and the Hawks used to have Marcus Kruger to do it.

Defensive faceoff specificalists aren’t as rare as a good two-way center.

You either go get a new specialist, or let Kampf develop into that role.

Also, don’t get this confused with me saying they’re better defensive players than Toews. I’m saying you need Toews’ offense more than you need Toews to limit his game and act like a grinder. Schaller and Nash obviously aren’t better defensively than Bergeron, but they still played that role.
Yes, I know other teams have really good defensive players that handle that role instead of the Backstroms, Bergerons, etc.

That's kind of what I am getting at here. the Hawks do not have ANYONE who can do it effectively to push this team over the top and to open Toews up to more of an offensive role.
You want Kampf to develop into that role? That's fine, but expect a lot of goals against and another shot at the lottery next year.
 
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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
Yes, I know other teams have really good defensive players that handle that role instead of the Backstroms, Bergerons, etc.

That's kind of what I am getting at here. the Hawks do not have ANYONE who can do it effectively to push this team over the top and to open Toews up to more of an offensive role.
You want Kampf to develop into that role? That's fine, but expect a lot of goals against and another shot at the lottery next year.

Kampf wouldn’t be stepping into that role ice cold, he got a taste of it last year, and played it full blast (according to people who watched) during the IceHogs’ playoff run.

If the Hawks don’t have a player to take on that role next season, it’s fully on Bowman.

Toews shouldn’t be shouldering that load just because Bowman failed to find that specialist.

This team needs more out of Toews in order to succeed, and part of that is removing him from being the prime shutdown guy. His line should be attacking and scoring against top competition, not just sitting back and grinding. If he needs Kane to make that happen, so be it.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
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London, Ont.
Kampf wouldn’t be stepping into that role ice cold, he got a taste of it last year, and played it full blast (according to people who watched) during the IceHogs’ playoff run.

If the Hawks don’t have a player to take on that role next season, it’s fully on Bowman.

Toews shouldn’t be shouldering that load just because Bowman failed to find that specialist.

This team needs more out of Toews in order to succeed, and part of that is removing him from being the prime shutdown guy. His line should be attacking and scoring against top competition, not just sitting back and grinding. If he needs Kane to make that happen, so be it.
Now we agree. I don't think Kampf can handle it, personally. But, if the organization is planning a small rebuild here, no better time to find out if he can. But Q is in this to win games, not retool a roster, so he may have different plans.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
Now we agree. I don't think Kampf can handle it, personally. But, if the organization is planning a small rebuild here, no better time to find out if he can. But Q is in this to win games, not retool a roster, so he may have different plans.

Agree, he could totally fail at it, but Bowman needs to find someone to be the guy one way or another, and I’m fine loading up Toews’ line the way Boston loads up Bergeron and Philly loads up Couturier.

I think Schmaltz, Saad, and Anisimov provide a decent foundation for secondary scoring on second and third lines
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
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London, Ont.
Agree, he could totally fail at it, but Bowman needs to find someone to be the guy one way or another, and I’m fine loading up Toews’ line the way Boston loads up Bergeron and Philly loads up Couturier.

I think Schmaltz, Saad, and Anisimov provide a decent foundation for secondary scoring on second and third lines
Loading up ion a line is fine, but you aren't winning anything by doing it. Just helping individuals better their seasons.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
Loading up ion a line is fine, but you aren't winning anything by doing it. Just helping individuals better their seasons.

If your second and third lines score more than the average second and third line, you could absolutely win like that.

If Schmaltz and Saad are 60 and 50 point players respectively on your second line, and Anisimov goes for 35+ on your third, you’re getting secondary scoring.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,475
10,804
London, Ont.
If your second and third lines score more than the average second and third line, you could absolutely win like that.

If Schmaltz and Saad are 60 and 50 point players respectively on your second line, and Anisimov goes for 35+ on your third, you’re getting secondary scoring.
Well, yeah. In theory. I just don't see our 2nd and third lines out scoring other top teams 2nd and third lines if Toews and Kane are on Line 1.
 

bwana63

carter blanche
Jul 11, 2014
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Chi western burbs
In evaluating Toews, you can't just look at his performance in a vacuum. If that was the case, of course the Hawks would keep him. However, in a hard capped sport, you have to also look at his $10.5mn hit. You have to look at the opportunity costs.

IF you can trade Toews' contract, who can you get for that $10.5mn? Panarin? Who else will sign for $10.5mn?

What you say is right ... with his NMC and $10.5mn cap hit, there's only one solution: Toews needs to play better. HOWEVER, Jonathan Toews deserves all the criticism. I don't blame him for taking the money ... but with that contract comes higher expectations. Toews underperformed massively and the Hawks struggled because of it. Due to the hard cap, it's not like the Hawks easily "replace" the production.

It's understandable Toews will be the ire of many fans and deservedly so.

99% of us here understand the NHL has a hard cap and ~90% have a darn good understanding of the ramifications of that.

As to moving Toews, sure his $10.5 would come in handy. But who would we be getting in return and are we prepared to retain or add sweeteners? And what about the massive void at center?

The solution is simple: Toews needs to up his game, plain and simple. Even simpler, his O. I believe that Toews would be the first one to acknowledge this.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
99% of us here understand the NHL has a hard cap and ~90% have a darn good understanding of the ramifications of that.

As to moving Toews, sure his $10.5 would come in handy. But who would we be getting in return and are we prepared to retain or add sweeteners? And what about the massive void at center?

The solution is simple: Toews needs to up his game, plain and simple. Even simpler, his O. I believe that Toews would be the first one to acknowledge this.

That’s not happening by just saying it though, something needs to change. Toews is still being used like he has Hossa on his wing, and he doesn’t.

Toews can’t produce like a 1C while carrying a prime shutdown line. So something needs to adjust, either the way he’s used or our expectations of him.
 
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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
Well, yeah. In theory. I just don't see our 2nd and third lines out scoring other top teams 2nd and third lines if Toews and Kane are on Line 1.

A Schmaltz and Saad second line at the very least should be better than what Boston had for a second line last year. Depending on where you put DeBrincat, that line could be among the better second lines in the league.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
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London, Ont.
A Schmaltz and Saad second line at the very least should be better than what Boston had for a second line last year. Depending on where you put DeBrincat, that line could be among the better second lines in the league.
And Boston ended up losing in the 2nd round.
Not exactly a model to be following.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
And Boston ended up losing in the 2nd round.
Not exactly a model to be following.

If the Hawks have better secondary scoring, it’s improving on the model.

Also, you can’t discount Boston’s chances.
They looked like a damn strong team.

We should be thrilled if this team gets to the level of where Boston was last season. It was a team that got into the playoffs and gave themselves a shot. They’re the closest model because they have similar players and went through the same type of rebuilding on the fly process.
 
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Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
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10,804
London, Ont.
If the Hawks have better secondary scoring, it’s improving on the model.

Also, you can’t discount Boston’s chances.
They looked like a damn strong team.

We should be thrilled if this team gets to the level of where Boston was last season. It was a team that got into the playoffs and gave themselves a shot. They’re the closest model because they have similar players and went through the same type of rebuilding on the fly process.
Similar players, except when it comes to Defense and Goaltending (with no healthy Crow). Then it becomes a major gap.
 

Rolo

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
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Boston's defense is vastly superior:

Chara - Top 4 shutdown D-man
McAvoy - Top pairing dman
Krug - #1 OFD
Carlo - Top 4 shutdown D-man
Moore - Solid #5 TWD
K.Miller - Solid #4-5 DFD
McQuaid - Solid #5-6 DFD
Gryzelcyk - Solid #5-6 OFD
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
Similar players, except when it comes to Defense and Goaltending (with no healthy Crow). Then it becomes a major gap.
Boston's defense is vastly superior:

Chara - Top 4 shutdown D-man
McAvoy - Top pairing dman
Krug - #1 OFD
Carlo - Top 4 shutdown D-man
Moore - Solid #5 TWD
K.Miller - Solid #4-5 DFD
McQuaid - Solid #5-6 DFD
Gryzelcyk - Solid #5-6 OFD

To quote my own post, “We should be thrilled if this team gets to the level of where Boston was last season.“
 

Rolo

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
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1,324
I don't think there is any doubt about that ... but the summer is not over; hopefully Stan is spending plenty of time on the phone. Hawks need help in the back end to make the playoffs, IMO.

Unless...

Keith bounces back to a legit #1
Murphy, Rutta, Forsling play like solid #3-4s
Seabrook plays like a solid #4-5
Gus/Manning/Oesterle don't play like AHL scrubs.
Jokiharju surprises, and bolsters our PP unit, and comes in as a sheltered #5

Keith-Murphy (Keith bounces back, Murphy plays a steady solid game)
Forsling-Rutta (play like they did in December for most of the year)
Jokiharju-Seabrook (Seabs plays a solid effective game, Jokiharju provides much needed offense).
Manning
 
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piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
12,115
3,356
NYC
99% of us here understand the NHL has a hard cap and ~90% have a darn good understanding of the ramifications of that.

As to moving Toews, sure his $10.5 would come in handy. But who would we be getting in return and are we prepared to retain or add sweeteners? And what about the massive void at center?

The solution is simple: Toews needs to up his game, plain and simple. Even simpler, his O. I believe that Toews would be the first one to acknowledge this.
Here's the question: would you trade Toews' $10.5mn contract for nothing in order to get cap flexibility? If it means getting an opportunity to sign an Erik Karlsson, Artemi Panarin, or another star center ... I would.

Here's the bigger dilemma: other teams would rather sign Karlsson, Tavares, Panarin, or another star center rather than trading for Toews. That's the issue. For $10.5mn, you can fill the void at center. Heck, Anisimov was playing like a 1C with Kane and Panarin as his wingers.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
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Chicago 'Burbs
Here's the question: would you trade Toews' $10.5mn contract for nothing in order to get cap flexibility? If it means getting an opportunity to sign an Erik Karlsson, Artemi Panarin, or another star center ... I would.

Here's the bigger dilemma: other teams would rather sign Karlsson, Tavares, Panarin, or another star center rather than trading for Toews. That's the issue. For $10.5mn, you can fill the void at center. Heck, Anisimov was playing like a 1C with Kane and Panarin as his wingers.

No. For one, the Hawks have plenty of cap flexibility at this point in time. For two, Toews is still a 1C, and those aren't easy to come by. For all his offensive flaws/issues the past few years, Toews still is one of the best two-way players in the game.
 

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