Bouwmeester's stock?

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Greek_physique

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IMO JayB ceiling is greater then Pitkanen. When I watch JayB play he reminds me a lot of S.Niedermayer. Very under-rated, but gets the job done (When Nieds was part of the Devils organization). Give him time, and you'll see the points there later in his career.

BTW, I dont think Pitkanen would do as well in a Florida system either.
 

Clash*

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Greek_physique69 said:
BTW, I dont think Pitkanen would do as well in a Florida system either.
And there ladies and gentlemen is the hitch. Could these other young defensemen shine like Bouwmeester, even if its is somewhat pale, on a losing, defensively bad team like Florida?
 

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ClashCitiRockr said:
And there ladies and gentlemen is the hitch. Could these other young defensemen shine like Bouwmeester, even if its is somewhat pale, on a losing, defensively bad team like Florida?

Do youself a favor and look past all the big names on the Flyers blueline. This team has really struggled with the concept of defense this year, and it's partly due to the fact that there are so many new players.
 

Greek_physique

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Panasonic Youth said:
Do youself a favor and look past all the big names on the Flyers blueline. This team has really struggled with the concept of defense this year, and it's partly due to the fact that there are so many new players.

What does that have to do with anything tho? Philly's team is one of the best in the league...who does Florida exactly have to compliment Jay?
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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Panasonic Youth said:
Do youself a favor and look past all the big names on the Flyers blueline. This team has really struggled with the concept of defense this year, and it's partly due to the fact that there are so many new players.

Pitkanen has had the luxury of playing on an NHL calibre defense corps (a good one at that sometimes). Bouwmeester has played on the worst defense in the league for nearly 3 seasons now. Pitkanen doesn't play with Sean Hill.

Bouwmeester has bigger upsides than Pitkanen IMO, because of his size, skating ability and the offensive potential just needs be tapped. He is also eite at defending already. However, Pitkanen is no doubt the better offensive player out of the two.
 

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Panasonic Youth said:
Do youself a favor and look past all the big names on the Flyers blueline. This team has really struggled with the concept of defense this year, and it's partly due to the fact that there are so many new players.
Why don't you actually compare the names on the Panthers' blue line to those on Philly's, and then do the same with the rest of the team as well. Except for in net, the Flyers are a better team overall, and with Nitty in net, its not much of a fall from Luongo (tho I'm sure GKJ will say Nitty is better as well).
 

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Rabid Ranger said:
Actually, I see quite a bit of Pitkanen and the Flyers. IMO Pitkanen (and every other young defenseman in the league) still has work to do when it comes to play in his own end. Personally, I think Bouwmeester is more advanced in that regard. You're a raging Pitkanen homer, so I don't count on you being objective though.

if pitkanen is a bit worse in his own end, well see how he is with the extra year of nhl experience. jbo is in his 3rd season, joni is in his second.

and philly's defense has been pretty much awful this year due to injuries, and incosistancey. so far this year philly has used on D pitkanen, desjardins,hatcher,rathje,johnnson, therien, meyer, jones, skolney, picard, seidenberg, gauthier. and donald brashear( he practiced as a d man, dont rememebr if he played a game after)

out of these d men pitkanen desjardins, hatcher, rathje, therien, johnnson, meyer, and seidenberg(while he was on philly) went through injuries this year. gauthier might of on PHX.
they defenseive pairings have all been shifted around so much that they never get the same partners. familarity with your partner is an important part of playing defense because you have to know how they play. pitkanen has been playing great altely paired with rathje who has a torn laburum(something like that) in his hip. grade A partner right there. id take sean hill over an injured rathje any day.
 

Rabid Ranger

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hovercraft said:
if pitkanen is a bit worse in his own end, well see how he is with the extra year of nhl experience. jbo is in his 3rd season, joni is in his second.

and philly's defense has been pretty much awful this year due to injuries, and incosistancey. so far this year philly has used on D pitkanen, desjardins,hatcher,rathje,johnnson, therien, meyer, jones, skolney, picard, seidenberg, gauthier. and donald brashear( he practiced as a d man, dont rememebr if he played a game after)

out of these d men pitkanen desjardins, hatcher, rathje, therien, johnnson, meyer, and seidenberg(while he was on philly) went through injuries this year. gauthier might of on PHX.
they defenseive pairings have all been shifted around so much that they never get the same partners. familarity with your partner is an important part of playing defense because you have to know how they play. pitkanen has been playing great altely paired with rathje who has a torn laburum(something like that) in his hip. grade A partner right there. id take sean hill over an injured rathje any day.


Let me clarify my position as it appears what I've stated has been lost in translation:

1) Pitkanen is a nice player and should be a great defenseman for a long time.
2) Pitkanen's abilities in the offensive end outweigh his abilities in the defensive end at this point.
3) Bouwmeester is a more accomplished player in his own end than Pitkanen is at this point.
4) Bouwmeester has the potential to do more offensively in the future than what he has shown.
5) Pitkanen will likely always be the better offensive player and put up more points.

I guess it comes down to style preferance. I tend to enjoy the flashier, offensive types like Pitkanen but am more than willing to acknowledge the quite effectiveness of a player like Bouwmeester. I really think Jay will go underappreciated for quite some time until being recognized, much like Lidstrom and Niedermeyer.
 
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J17 Vs Proclamation

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hovercraft said:
if pitkanen is a bit worse in his own end, well see how he is with the extra year of nhl experience. jbo is in his 3rd season, joni is in his second.

and philly's defense has been pretty much awful this year due to injuries, and incosistancey. so far this year philly has used on D pitkanen, desjardins,hatcher,rathje,johnnson, therien, meyer, jones, skolney, picard, seidenberg, gauthier. and donald brashear( he practiced as a d man, dont rememebr if he played a game after)

out of these d men pitkanen desjardins, hatcher, rathje, therien, johnnson, meyer, and seidenberg(while he was on philly) went through injuries this year. gauthier might of on PHX.
they defenseive pairings have all been shifted around so much that they never get the same partners. familarity with your partner is an important part of playing defense because you have to know how they play. pitkanen has been playing great altely paired with rathje who has a torn laburum(something like that) in his hip. grade A partner right there. id take sean hill over an injured rathje any day.

They are both the same age, and Pitkanen despite playing one less season in the NHL than JB it really has little affect on their play. One point you forget to mention is that Pitkanen has been slowly brought into the league, and been helped my his surrounding defenseman. Bouwmeester has been thrown in at the deep end, playing as a top pairing defenseman in his rookie season which he wasn't ready for.

Philly injuries or not as a better defense than Florida easily. Put Pitkanen with Hill as your top pairing for awhile and see what happens. Its not something Pitkanen will enjoy.
 

Greek_physique

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hovercraft said:
if pitkanen is a bit worse in his own end, well see how he is with the extra year of nhl experience. jbo is in his 3rd season, joni is in his second.

and philly's defense has been pretty much awful this year due to injuries, and incosistancey. so far this year philly has used on D pitkanen, desjardins,hatcher,rathje,johnnson, therien, meyer, jones, skolney, picard, seidenberg, gauthier. and donald brashear( he practiced as a d man, dont rememebr if he played a game after)

out of these d men pitkanen desjardins, hatcher, rathje, therien, johnnson, meyer, and seidenberg(while he was on philly) went through injuries this year. gauthier might of on PHX.
they defenseive pairings have all been shifted around so much that they never get the same partners. familarity with your partner is an important part of playing defense because you have to know how they play. pitkanen has been playing great altely paired with rathje who has a torn laburum(something like that) in his hip. grade A partner right there. id take sean hill over an injured rathje any day.

:nopity:
Seems to me your making a lot of excuses here. Bouwmeester has always had crap to work with, and in those 3years has gotten better each year. He plays against each teams top lines, and does a tremendous job at that.

Dont sit here and talk about injuries and how that's effected Mr.Pitkanen progression. He's still a great dman... I just think if you watch Jay B play everyday, you'll see how valuable he is...not just points wise
 

Clash*

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Want to talk about injuries. Bouwmeester's first two seasons, Florida was among the top five leaders in games lost due to injury, finishing second to the Kings I believ both of those years. And all three years, Mezei has been lost in Florida for a good majority of each year. Why is that significant? Cause it has resulted in Jay bein teamed with the like of Matthieu Biron, Lyle Odelein, and Sean Hill. When has Pitkanen played top pairing minutes for most of an entire season with that bein the best quality around him. And don't be fooled by Sean Hill. He hasn't produced when playin for a team outside the city of Raleigh, N.C. Hill benefits from bein limited to second pairing minutes and a good supporting cast around him. That isn't here in Florida, so I'd rather have an injured Rathje over Hill any day of the week, and twice a day on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays.
 

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Greek_physique69 said:
:nopity:
Seems to me your making a lot of excuses here. Bouwmeester has always had crap to work with, and in those 3years has gotten better each year. He plays against each teams top lines, and does a tremendous job at that.

Dont sit here and talk about injuries and how that's effected Mr.Pitkanen progression. He's still a great dman... I just think if you watch Jay B play everyday, you'll see how valuable he is...not just points wise

No pity??? On this very page you --and other Florida fans-- were making excuses for Bouwmeester left and right, saying that Philly's team is better and poor Bouwmeester has nothing. How sad....Luongo's on the same team, with the same players, in a more important role and some how he flourished. What's his excuse?

Anyways, Hovercraft wasn't making excuses for the Flyers star player, but rather debating your claim of Philly having the better blueline. We've had Randy Jones, and Chris Therien dressed reguarly for the better part of three quarters of a season. These two alone on the ice are the equivalent of a power play, thus why the don't see time on the PK. But we're not going to cry about who was dealt a bum deal, Pitkanen has been doing more with his skillset than Bouwmeester-who has proven only to be a more mobile Mike Rathje with an offensive flair.
 

HoverCarle*

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Greek_physique69 said:
:nopity:
Seems to me your making a lot of excuses here. Bouwmeester has always had crap to work with, and in those 3years has gotten better each year. He plays against each teams top lines, and does a tremendous job at that.

Dont sit here and talk about injuries and how that's effected Mr.Pitkanen progression. He's still a great dman... I just think if you watch Jay B play everyday, you'll see how valuable he is...not just points wise

i have never ragged on bowmeester. i realise how great he is all around. i thought he was canadas best d man in olympics and especially on the PK. im just defending pitkanen because people said his stock has Fallen which it obviosuly havent. and to answer the topic name i dont think bouwmeesters has either.
 

Greek_physique

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Panasonic Youth said:
No pity??? On this very page you --and other Florida fans-- were making excuses for Bouwmeester left and right, saying that Philly's team is better and poor Bouwmeester has nothing. How sad....Luongo's on the same team, with the same players, in a more important role and some how he flourished. What's his excuse?

Anyways, Hovercraft wasn't making excuses for the Flyers star player, but rather debating your claim of Philly having the better blueline. We've had Randy Jones, and Chris Therien dressed reguarly for the better part of three quarters of a season. These two alone on the ice are the equivalent of a power play, thus why the don't see time on the PK. But we're not going to cry about who was dealt a bum deal, Pitkanen has been doing more with his skillset than Bouwmeester-who has proven only to be a more mobile Mike Rathje with an offensive flair.


Where did I make excuses for Jay B? I believe I said he's under-rated. The only thing I said was...if Pitkanen was placed on the Panthers he wouldn't be doing as good. It wasnt a knock to say he sux as a hockey player. I'd gladly take him on any team in the nhl...as would any coach.

And yes, Philly has had a ton of injuries to there blueline, I give you that. But does Pitkanen mostly play with those rookies/rejects (therien) or does he play with a Hatcher/Rathje or Desjardin?

Also, dont compare Jay B to a more mobile Rathje..that's just laughable.
 

Greek_physique

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hovercraft said:
i have never ragged on bowmeester. i realise how great he is all around. i thought he was canadas best d man in olympics and especially on the PK. im just defending pitkanen because people said his stock has Fallen which it obviosuly havent. and to answer the topic name i dont think bouwmeesters has either.

Oh ok, maybe I shouldnt have said that to you directly. I just joined this conversation from page 3 on :sarcasm: But I do agree with you, Pitkanen's stock hasnt fallen. He's a helluva dman...screwed Boston over early in the season :biglaugh:
 

Liquidrage*

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All Haill JBo the great. If only he wasn't stuck in Florida. Cause you know, if the cross had been in Florida we'd still be killing sheep. And you know 2x that it's impossible for young players to look good on bad teams, while all young players look good on good teams.

We need to look beyond stats here. Everyone has stats.
Here's a link to JBo's highlight film showing his best of the best stuff
.

Oh, and Ranger, you've been known to make stuff up to attempt and support your pressuposed beliefs, so I don't count on you being objective either. Did you use a map to figure out which was further from the US, Canada or Finland, before forming your opinion on this one?
 

Roger's Pancreas*

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Greek_physique69 said:
Where did I make excuses for Jay B? I believe I said he's under-rated. The only thing I said was...if Pitkanen was placed on the Panthers he wouldn't be doing as good. It wasnt a knock to say he sux as a hockey player. I'd gladly take him on any team in the nhl...as would any coach.

And yes, Philly has had a ton of injuries to there blueline, I give you that. But does Pitkanen mostly play with those rookies/rejects (therien) or does he play with a Hatcher/Rathje or Desjardin?

Also, dont compare Jay B to a more mobile Rathje..that's just laughable.

A 6'4" defensive stellwart who isn't overly physical and was drafted in the top five. Sounds kinda like Rathje to me.
 

Rabid Ranger

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Liquidrage said:
All Haill JBo the great. If only he wasn't stuck in Florida. Cause you know, if the cross had been in Florida we'd still be killing sheep. And you know 2x that it's impossible for young players to look good on bad teams, while all young players look good on good teams.

We need to look beyond stats here. Everyone has stats.
Here's a link to JBo's highlight film showing his best of the best stuff
.

Oh, and Ranger, you've been known to make stuff up to attempt and support your pressuposed beliefs, so I don't count on you being objective either. Did you use a map to figure out which was further from the US, Canada or Finland, before forming your opinion on this one?



I'm not exactly sure why you feel the need to go there, but whatever makes you feel important. You're pretty immature if you have to bring up my personal beliefs. Anyway, as for the topic at hand, I think I am objective in this case since I'm neither a Flyers or a Panthers fan. I'm not even being overly critical of either player, just pointing out what I see as the strengths and opportunities of each. Like I said, I watch plenty of Flyers (and Panthers) games, at least enough to formulate an opinion. If you don't agree with it-fine, just don't resport to such childish behavior. It makes you look bad.
 
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Liquidrage*

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Rabid Ranger said:
Like I said, I watch plenty of Flyers (and Panthers) games, at least enough to formulate an opinion. If you don't agree with it-fine, just don't resport to such childish behavior. It makes you look bad.

This from the guy that told me I can't be objective about Joni.

Even though last season and the start of this year I was ripping him non-stop as his play warranted.

As far as making me look bad, don't care. Nor did I really care for what you wrote about me earlier. It wasn't honest nor right.

Let's both stick to your own advice from now on, eh?
 

Rabid Ranger

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Liquidrage said:
This from the guy that told me I can't be objective about Joni.

Even though last season and the start of this year I was ripping him non-stop as his play warranted.

As far as making me look bad, don't care. Nor did I really care for what you wrote about me earlier. It wasn't honest nor right.

Let's both stick to your own advice from now on, eh?


Sounds good to me.
 

Habsfan 32

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I think Bouwmeester is the best young defenseman in the NHL. He's playing on a poor team and playing well. He's their #1 defenseman and has been for the last 3 seasons. He's constantly covering up for Hill's mistakes and he has the potential to score 55-65 points in this new NHL.
 

Habsaku

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Habsfan 32 said:
I think Bouwmeester is the best young defenseman in the NHL. He's playing on a poor team and playing well. He's their #1 defenseman and has been for the last 3 seasons. He's constantly covering up for Hill's mistakes and he has the potential to score 55-65 points in this new NHL.
Thats what I was thinking. I really like everything about Bouwmeester and if Keenan was crazy enough to trade him, I'd be hoping Gainey would be the first in line to acquire Jay-Bo.
 

MU_Beerman

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I have seen Sean Hill Play. If JBO's a + player paired with that guy, then he's a keeper, IMO. In his prime, he was a run & gun riverboat gambler. He always pinched and got burned, and he went for the big hit so much that guys started expecting it and he crashed into the boards quite often. I think he got hurt like that, IIRC. Has to be one of the worst signings in Blues' history, right up there with Mike Keane.
 
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