Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Dubi Doo, Aug 12, 2019.
That trade happened in 2009.
Uh yes they are, that franchise is falling part at an alarming rate. They are not bottom 5 precisely because of making the playoffs, but they are are on one of the sleepest downhill trajectories
Van won the presidents trophy the next year after the finals loss.. so 2 in the decade with the finals appearance... but okay talk about recency bias, it a big sample size dude
Two years actually. But yeah, we are bottom 5.
The Devils have sucked this decade, but I think a Cup finals appearance keeps them out of the bottom 5.
Twice, 5th both times. Of course, that was part of the problem. Literally the only time they drafted top 3 the entire decade was pure dumb luck in 2018. They never really bottomed out, but problem is they never really spent enough to build a competitive team by any other means in that time frame either. If not for this past year and the existence of Edmonton they'd be the undisputed #1 to me. Last year was probably enough to drop them to 5 I guess but not out of the bottom 5 entirely.
Not to mention after that cup appearance they lost their two best players for nothing.
FWIW, bottom 10 in each category:
Wins from 2010-11 to 2018-19:
313 New Jersey
Playoff wins from 2010-11 to 2018-19:
3 Buffalo (3-4)
5 Florida (5-8)
6 Calgary (6-14)
7 Edmonton (7-6)
8 Carolina (8-7)
9 Arizona (9-11)
11 Winnipeg/Atlanta (11-16), Columbus (11-16), Toronto (11-16)
12 Colorado (12-13)
Arizona (hard to win without ownership)
And they have been a playoff team how many times in the last six seasons of this decade? That is part of that sample size.
If you are sitting in Vancouver in 2011, you are feeling pretty good about things, feeling like you've turned a corner even despite the finals loss to Boston. Then you follow up the President's Cup the next season by being barely noticeable against the Kings. Things slid downhill from there.
Which was my point: I don't consider them one of the bottom teams of the decade (any more than I consider Toronto, Montreal, or Detroit on that list), but I put them all in the group that had a disappointing decade after setting some expectations. Call it recency bias, if you like, but being on that list pretty much specifies that their recent performance didn't live up to expectations. In both their case and Detroit's, the expectation based on their past achievements. Maybe those expectations were unrealistic, but they left people feeling empty in the second half of the decade, anyway.
Florida, Buffalo, NYI, Edmonton, Carolina
It's pretty easily Edmonton, Buffalo, Carolina, Arizona, Florida IMO
Don't think NYI belongs there. AZ has a worse overall record over the 10 year stretch from 09/10 - 18/19:
AZ/PH: 803 points, 350 wins.
NYI: 843 points, 372 wins
There are 10 other teams with lower point totals and 9 other teams with lower win totals than NYI had over that stretch. The NYI also made the playoffs 4 times in that stretch vs. 3 times for PHX/AZ.
The only thing in AZ's favor is that they made it to the Conf. Finals 1 season, but that, IMO, isn't enough to make up for the overall better performance of NYI. For me, the bottom 5 teams are:
Edm and Buffalo being the worst, AZ, Car, and FLA being in the next tier.
They are very boring.
Yeah i guess I was weighing the 2012 WCF more heavily for Arizona, plus I always had a soft spot for them.
Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida, Arizona, and Dallas. Carolina and Columbus are my 6+7
Exactly my thoughts too. Great post.
I can't like posts, so consider this my like to you sir!
A lot of people forget that happened. Especially when I've seen the potential of Hall walking away being mentioned as balancing out the luck of the draft lottery. Nah, mate. Parise and Kovalchuk already did that.
Leafs should be 5th or 6th.
Their 2010-15 run was Oilers/Sabres level bad
It's close but:
Edmonton 1x playoffs/1 series win, 305 Regular Season wins
Buffalo 2x/0, 318
Florida 2x/0, 344
Carolina 1x/2, 346
Toronto 4x/0, 360
They were a bit better than the bottom five on their own minute to move up into the next group, but while a win would be different I don't think a Cup final appearance along is really that big a distinction over a 10 year span. There's room for 20 teams to earn that spot, and not to take credit away there's always a Cinderella run every once in a while. And it's not like Vancouver's appearance which happened during a top 5 year stretch which had 5 division titles and 2 Presidents trophy's, the Devils missed the playoffs before their finals appearance and they missed they playoffs again after, which ended up being a 5 year stretch.
The best case example of this would be the Florida Panthers, who somehow had an appearance in their 3rd year as a franchise but were otherwise pretty terrible for the longest time.
The Calgary mentions in the 5-10 range does make sense. We started a rebuild early in this decade and Feaster traded all our talent away in the wrong year so the draft was flubbed over and over for quite a few seasons. We also had complete crap drafting mandates until Treliving revised the mandate in 2015. We literally started our rebuild with (1st and 2nd rounders):
2011: Baertschi (injury and attitude issues), Granlund (undersized), Tyler Wotherspoon (when our head scout was super excited about Kucherov and Gaudreau)
2012: Jankowski (Super long term project), Sieloff (development derailed by illness and injury)
2013: Monahan (really good, but flawed and injury issues), Poirier (addiction issues derailed career), Klimchuk (injury issues derailed career),
2014: Bennett (Injury + ??), McDonald (Bust), Smith (Truculence bust)
2015: Andersson, Kylington + Traded 1st for Hamilton (If not Hamilton, we were supposedly interested in drafting Chabot, and we had two early 2nds in this draft too as part of the trade for Hamilton)
2016: Tkachuk, Parsons (mental illness, but should be ok?), Dube
Highest draft pick in this period (and ever) - Sam Bennett @ 4. Thank goodness our scout was given some freedom in these years and picked up some pretty damn good gems in the later rounds: Gaudreau, Fox, Ferland, Hathaway, Mangiapane etc.
We literally never tanked. Apparently it was an ownership mandate. We should have been in the mix for the Connor McDavid sweepstakes, but instead we ended up going on a playoff run. Drafting 5 times in the first 2 rounds in 2015 would have been quite interesting though.
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