Botchford: Vancouver or Washington: Where would you go if you were GM-in-waiting.

[MrGone]

He really makes the Caps seem like a much better job.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Vancouver+Washington+Where+would+were+waiting/9819997/story.html

Click to read more...

 

[BobRouse]

He really makes the Caps seem like a much better job.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Vancouver+Washington+Where+would+were+waiting/9819997/story.html

Can't really disagree with much of anything he says.

Caps are a very attractive job for a multitude of reasons:

1. The GM will be playing with house money. If he succeeds he will be a genius. If he fails it won't be on him..it will be "same old Caps!"

2. Ted is very patient. Vancouver owners are the opposite. Article makes that clear.

3. The Caps have a younger core, a better salary structure, and a better group of prospects.

4. USA! USA! USA!

 

[trick9]

If he actually gets to make his decisions (hire the coach he wants, not who Ted wants etc), then Washington is almost certainly the more intriguing destination.

If he doesn't like the current Canucks team then he should have easy job picking Caps instead because literally every single one of Canucks core players have NTC/NMC's and most of them have either been there for a long time or are close to home in Vancouver so he'd have limited options about trading them. That really is a terrible situation for new GM as the team has nearly the worst prospect pool in the NHL, is currently nowhere near contending, or can't move their older main trade assets for younger pieces.

 

[Langway]

The strength of the respective divisions makes the Vancouver job much more difficult, particularly given the new playoff format.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Up to now, the Capitals haven't shown significant interest in Benning.

My takeaway.

 

[BobRouse]

The strength of the respective divisions makes the Vancouver job much more difficult, particularly given the new playoff format.

While this IS a factor it is way at the bottom of the list. Strength of divisions fluctuates over time moreso than other things.

Ownership being one of them...say what you want about Ted but he is patient and willing to give the GM time to bring his visions to life where Vancouver ownership doesn't seem to share the same patience.

Also the current state of the teams. Caps are young, have talent in the pipeline and are in far better salary cap shape than Vancouver.

The latter two factors dwarf the division consideration IMO

 

[Liberati0n*]

While this IS a factor it is way at the bottom of the list. Strength of divisions fluctuates over time moreso than other things.

Ownership being one of them...say what you want about Ted but he is patient and willing to give the GM time to bring his visions to life where Vancouver ownership doesn't seem to share the same patience.

Also the current state of the teams. Caps are young, have talent in the pipeline and are in far better salary cap shape than Vancouver.

The latter two factors dwarf the division consideration IMO

An owner who meddles in decisions as important as hiring a coach, especially if his judgment is to hire Oates because he "knows the market," should be a gigantic red flag to GM candidates. They probably aren't aware of it, but if they are I can't imagine why they would think that's someone they want to work for.

 

[Hivemind]

Maybe it's just that I'm a fan of the the wrong teams, but post-Jagr, I don't really consider Ted to be all that intrusive of an owner. Granted, we don't know what happens inside the front office, but when compared to Dan Snyder and Peter Angelos, Ted is miles ahead. Obviously, if Ted had something to do with Oates being hired instead of Cooper, it would be worrisome. But I suspect that most owners have a degree of involvement and input on major decisions in their franchise. It's not like Ted pulled the trigger to trade away the faces of the franchise, like Ed Snider did with Richards and Carter. Given his faith in his previous GM, his willingness to spend to the salary cap, and his allowance to spend on ameteur scouting, I think Ted would probably be a pretty attractive boss for a GM to work for.

With regards to the division, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a huge factor. The one concrete factor about it is that the Metro has 8 team and the Pacific only has 7. By structure, it's more difficult to reach the playoffs in the eastern conference with the two extra teams. That may push someone towards Vancouver. But otherwise the two divisions are both saddled with multiple teams that are willing to spend to the limit and established stars.

 

[BobRouse]

An owner who meddles in decisions as important as hiring a coach, especially if his judgment is to hire Oates because he "knows the market," should be a gigantic red flag to GM candidates. They probably aren't aware of it, but if they are I can't imagine why they would think that's someone they want to work for.

Are you sure it was 100% Ted and not Patrick who is rumored to being phased out?

Are we so sure that GMGM didn't simply defer to Ted/Patrick on these decisions when he could have stood firm?

RE: Oates - Its perfectly feasible that Gryma Patrick whispered the Oates-love into Ted's ear and McPhee, always the type unwilling to rock the boat, said "fine by me!"

I don't think we truly know this.

What we do know for sure is that Vancouver ownership has fired 2 GMs in the last few years and thats a pretty significant thing.

The question is - Which of the two is more desirable?

Would you rather have a somewhat meddling owner (assuming Ted is) or an owner who will fire you in 2 years if things don't go right?

 

[Devil Dancer]

The strength of the respective divisions makes the Vancouver job much more difficult, particularly given the new playoff format.

That's true right now, but the 8 team division/16 team conference should theoretically make it harder to make the playoffs in the Atlantic, all other things being equal.

 

[Langway]

That's true right now, but the 8 team division/16 team conference should theoretically make it harder to make the playoffs in the Atlantic, all other things being equal.

All things being equal, yeah. I just don't see those CA teams getting worse any time soon. San Jose is getting a little long in the tooth here and there and so is some of LA's blueline but the core of those teams and their regular season coaching is pretty elite.

While the Metro has franchises like Philly & NYR that always spend that doesn't put them on equal footing with those CA teams IMO. Again, overall the East offers a lower bar towards competitiveness. One good off-season and you're sort of in the mix at this point whereas the West is a war. It's harder to fast-track a team that can hang.

 

[Liberati0n*]

Are you sure it was 100% Ted and not Patrick who is rumored to being phased out?

No, I'm not even sure they meddled and forced Oates on McPhee, but there is evidence for it. The reason I would think it was Ted is that knowing the market ********, but I suppose that could've been suggested by Patrick. Since the Gretzky thing doesn't seem to be happening, there's no reason to believe Patrick is being phased out. If he were phased out in favor of Gretzky, I think it would be more out of the desire to get Gretzky in (for marketing reasons) than wanting to push Patrick out independently.

Maybe it's just that I'm a fan of the the wrong teams, but post-Jagr, I don't really consider Ted to be all that intrusive of an owner. Granted, we don't know what happens inside the front office, but when compared to Dan Snyder and Peter Angelos, Ted is miles ahead. Obviously, if Ted had something to do with Oates being hired instead of Cooper, it would be worrisome. But I suspect that most owners have a degree of involvement and input on major decisions in their franchise. It's not like Ted pulled the trigger to trade away the faces of the franchise, like Ed Snider did with Richards and Carter. Given his faith in his previous GM, his willingness to spend to the salary cap, and his allowance to spend on ameteur scouting, I think Ted would probably be a pretty attractive boss for a GM to work for.

That there are worse examples doesn't make it any better or more acceptable. His meddling is also way worse than Snider's because he does it for ****ing marketing reasons. Snider does it because he desperately wants to win. I don't care that his impact is bigger. The reasons matter and speak to Ted's backwards priorities as an owner. He also has a track record of being stupid, meaning that meddling in even one decision (like Oates) can be disastrous.

A while ago, Brad Tolliver (RIP) posted that he'd heard that McPhee had a Johansson/Derek Roy trade arranged and it was vetoed by Patrick. I don't know where he got that from, but he seemed confident about it. While that particular trade may have been regrettable, the fact (if true) that they/he would veto a trade because they didn't want to move a young player like Johansson is very disturbing. If true, it suggests that core-altering trades were never even on the table for GMGM, which is downright ****ed up.

 

[caps4cup]

My takeaway.

Should probably be changed to "up until now, the Caps haven't shown interest in anybody"...

 

[Ajax1995]

An owner who meddles in decisions as important as hiring a coach, especially if his judgment is to hire Oates because he "knows the market," should be a gigantic red flag to GM candidates. They probably aren't aware of it, but if they are I can't imagine why they would think that's someone they want to work for.

Can't you say this about both jobs though as it was widely reported that Gillis did not want Tortorella but their ownership did?

 

[Atlas]

Should probably be changed to "up until now, the Caps haven't shown interest in anybody"...

Nice one!

I expect Vancouver is much more of a hockey culture. DC has no hockey culture to speak of and won't until we win a few Cups. Vancouver is probably just a better city as well.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Should probably be changed to "up until now, the Caps haven't shown interest in anybody"...

 

[Acallabeth]

delete

 

[Midnight Judges]

Washington is close to Boston?!?

 

[SimplySensational]

Washington is close to Boston?!?

1.5 hour non-stop flight.

And I doubt there is a direct flights between Vancouver and Boston, so probably 8 hours...

 

[Darkproducer]

someone show this article to benning quick........... lol