Boston Vs Florida - Who's the better team?

[Spirit of 67]

Injuries not withstanding, I don't see how this isn't Boston.

 

[Tweed]

Last time I checked, Boston was better than Toronto.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I got Florida 2nd in the Atlantic. I don't know which of the big bad 3 finishes 1st, 3rd, and 4th, but since very few things remain perfectly static in the NHL from year to year, someone will upset the consensus.

 

[easton117]

I’d say Florida has closed the gap signicantly on all three of last years top Atlantic teams.

Whoever gets nailed hardest with the injury bug will be in a dogfight for that last WC spot. After that just toss a coin for 1,2 and 3.

If it’s one of their goalies the only one I’d have faith in still making the playoffs is Boston oddly enough.

 

[IceManCat]

Panthers have a depth problem on offense and defense if they can fix it they can certainly be better than Boston. I would say that both teams have an equal amount of top end talent.

 

[hambone1818]

Everyone is saying Boston here and I agree, but in regards to the general idea of Boston regressing (which is what this partly about): Bergeron is coming into the year banged up and at 33 he's not far from starting to slow down, imo, given how hard he pushes himself every year. Krug is hurt, their PP will be less effective without him to start the year.

Besides that this team is on the upswing. Marchand and Rask are in their prime, Pasta is just reaching his potential, young guys like Carlo, Debrusk, Donato, Heinen should all improve and at the least provide solid depth, McAvoy is turning into a stud, and they have a boatload of quality prospects in JFK, Senyshyn, Bjork, Frederick, Vaakanainen, Zboril who may contribute this year. The only age they have is Chara - who's getting reduced minutes with the emergence of some of the kids. Backes and Krejci are what they are at this point: quality 2nd/3rd line forwards.

This is a 112 point team that had half a dozen rookies + Pasta and Carlo skating regular minutes last season, they had 7 points on Toronto and 16 on Florida. I don't think they cede ground to either, and they'll again battle Tampa for the top spot in the conference.

 

[pb1300]

As a Florida fan, Im picking Florida, assuming both teams are relatively healthy. Florida's top two lines overall are one of the best top 6s in the league. Its a pretty good problem to have when your worst top six player is capable of 25g/50p. Boston's top line is elite, but Florida's top line, once Bjugstad was added, was one of the better producing lines in the league as well. Hoffman added to the 2nd line gives them an advantage IMO, and they have better depth, than in the past, in the bottom six, with a lot of capable scorers. It will all come down to if Luongo can stay healthy. If he gives the team 45-50 games, with .920 save%, then we should contend for a top 3 spot in the Atlantic.

I can see why Boston would be considered the choice in this thread, but comments that include "quite easily, not even close" etc., are pretty ridiculous IMO.

 

[hambone1818]

Boston lost their #3 C and have no good bottom 6 C's. Bergeron already missed games last year and missed games this year already. Krejci has been declining for a few years now. Tampa and Toronto are unquestionably better teams this year, so I think it's a fair question.

Toronto is UNQUESTIONABLY better? How has Bergeron missed games this year, the season starts tomorrow for them?

They have a bunch of kids who can center that 3rd line and Kuraly is a perfectly acceptable 3rd unit center until they find a better option. I'd bet this 4th line, whoever rotates through this season, is far better than most teams given the depth of talent the Bruins have.

Mostly I just love the 'Toronto is unquestionably better' comment, after the Bruins beat them in the standings last year and had just as young a roster as Toronto with more kids on the way.

 

[Legionnaire]

Boston still.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Boston has the better goaltending, defense, and offense. The margins vary but the Bruins should again be better barring injury issues.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think it's Florida and I have all summer and now Torrey Krug is hurt I think Florida finishes higher

 

[The Podium]

Toronto is UNQUESTIONABLY better? How has Bergeron missed games this year, the season starts tomorrow for them?

They have a bunch of kids who can center that 3rd line and Kuraly is a perfectly acceptable 3rd unit center until they find a better option. I'd bet this 4th line, whoever rotates through this season, is far better than most teams given the depth of talent the Bruins have.

Mostly I just love the 'Toronto is unquestionably better' comment, after the Bruins beat them in the standings last year and had just as young a roster as Toronto with more kids on the way.

I agree that Toronto is definitely not unquestionably better, but the bolded is a bit misleading. There is a difference between complimentary young, and leading the team young. Boston's age comes from Chara, Bergeron, Marchand. Leafs from Marleau, Hainsey, Polak. Although all credit to Pasta and McAvoy.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Boston is overrated AF for some reason, they barely got through the Leafs who made major blunders in the series, disappearances from Andersen, Matthews, Nylander, God awful coaching decisions from Babcock and Naz being Naz and getting suspended, still needed the final 10 minutes of game 7 to close it out. They then got rekt by Tampa.

Would not be surprised if Florida surpassed them this year, Boston is not in the Toronto or Tampa tier anymore, both teams got better and Boston is relying on a 42 year old to anchor their D and yes Boston has good young players and a stud in Mac, but that's not enough to compete with the primed-prime talent in Toronto and Tampa while they only have effectively one line that can really produce for them.

Also ignoring that they had a 112pt season, good enough for 3rd in the NHL...?

Let's also ignore that they had terrible play from Rask/Krejci at times (who also happened to be injured) as well as injures to Carlo/Nash/Bergeron.

Also funny that Matthews/Nylander just "played bad" no credit is given to the Bergeron line for shutting them down.

 

[The Podium]

Boston has the better goaltending, defense, and offense. The margins vary but the Bruins should again be better barring injury issues.

Id say both O and D are arguable, G is a clear win for Boston assuming Luongo misses significant parts of the season again.

Barkov, Trochek, Huberdeau are only slightly worse than Marchand, Bergeron and Pasta. Depth isnt that far off.

Ekblad ~ McAvoy
Yandle ~ Krug
I like Matheson and Pysyk better than Miller and Grzelcyk

Chara is the only real X factor on D.

 

[The Podium]

Also ignoring that they had a 112pt season, good enough for 3rd in the NHL...?

Let's also ignore that they had terrible play from Rask/Krejci at times (who also happened to be injured) as well as injures to Carlo/Nash/Bergeron.

Also funny that Matthews/Nylander just "played bad" no credit is given to the Bergeron line for shutting them down.

The Bergeron line didnt really shut them down, Chara did. Leafs had Kadri/Plekanec matched to Bergeron both home and away after game 2.

 

[bobholly39]

It really bugs me how much everyone is taking for granted who the top 4 in the Atlantic are this year. Things ALWAYS change from year to year.

NO ONE really saw Boston as a top team at start of last season - more a bubble playoff team. And they had a fantastic season. FLA was so-so most year till they turned it on towards end.

Teams like Mtl, Buffalo Det and even Ottawa could put together a run.

I'll be shocked if the top 4 this year is Tampa, Tor, Boston and FLA in some order. I guarantee at least 1 other team breaks it up.

As to the actual question - I think i'll say Boston. But I could see both teams struggling this year.

 

[The Podium]

It really bugs me how much everyone is taking for granted who the top 4 in the Atlantic are this year. Things ALWAYS change from year to year.

NO ONE really saw Boston as a top team at start of last season - more a bubble playoff team. And they had a fantastic season. FLA was so-so most year till they turned it on towards end.

Teams like Mtl, Buffalo Det and even Ottawa could put together a run.

I'll be shocked if the top 4 this year is Tampa, Tor, Boston and FLA in some order. I guarantee at least 1 other team breaks it up.

As to the actual question - I think i'll say Boston. But I could see both teams struggling this year.

Even with that mentality, Buffalo is the only one that has a realistic shot of doing that. Montreal if Price goes god mode, but even than a goalie can only carry a team for so long without D or F support.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

Panthers fan voting Boston. 5 wins better.

Boston deserves love similar to 2000's red wings. I don't know how they've been able to supplant an aging core with young guys as well as they have...De Brusk, Krug, Pasrnak, Donato, Heinen, McAvoy.

 

[bobholly39]

Even with that mentality, Buffalo is the only one that has a realistic shot of doing that. Montreal if Price goes god mode, but even than a goalie can only carry a team for so long without D or F support.

I think Price is due to go God mode - and carrying a team to the playoffs isn't all that far (not the same as carrying a team to the cup). I think with a Price at the top of his ability making the playoffs isn't that huge of a bar to reach.

Buffalo - yes it seems they're due to finally put something together. So much talented pieces there they could very well come together.

I'm less sure about Detroit - but they seem to always contend early in the season before dropping off after past few years.

I do feel Ottawa could cause a surprise. So much drama and adversity there - it wouldn't be the craziest thing to see the players band together and try to compete

 

[hambone1818]

I agree that Toronto is definitely not unquestionably better, but the bolded is a bit misleading. There is a difference between complimentary young, and leading the team young. Boston's age comes from Chara, Bergeron, Marchand. Leafs from Marleau, Hainsey, Polak. Although all credit to Pasta and McAvoy.

Pasta and McAvoy, but also Carlo, Donato, Heinen, DeBrusk. More on the way. The MAJORITY of talent on this team is sub-24 and improving or just starting to contribute. Chara, Krejci, Backes are all on the decline but their roles have all been minimized/picked up by the kids. Marchand is 30, he's like 18 months older than Tavares. I conceded Bergeron, I do think he starts to slow down over the next few years but for this season, it's more than made up for by improvements by the kids imo.

 

[The Podium]

Pasta and McAvoy, but also Carlo, Donato, Heinen, DeBrusk. More on the way. The MAJORITY of talent on this team is sub-24 and improving or just starting to contribute. Chara, Krejci, Backes are all on the decline but their roles have all been minimized/picked up by the kids. Marchand is 30, he's like 18 months older than Tavares. I conceded Bergeron, I do think he starts to slow down over the next few years but for this season, it's more than made up for by improvements by the kids imo.

As much as I respect the talent of Carlo, Donato, Heinen and DeBrusk, they dont have franchise potential. I'd argue some dont even have top line potential. As a Leaf fan I can start naming off young contributors too, but it would be pretty insignficant.

You name the core and look at the ages.

Tavares 28
Matthews 21
Marner 21
Nylander 22
Rielly 24
Andersen 29
Average age: 24.2

vs.

Bergeron 33
Marchand 30
Pastarnak 22
add someone here?
McAvoy 20
Rask 31
Average age: 27.2*
*Only using 5 players skews the average age

Carlo, Donato, Heinen, Debrusk vs. Dermott, Kapanen, Johnson, Brown is more or less a wash with the slight edge going to Boston's players for being more proven.

 

[hambone1818]

As much as I respect the talent of Carlo, Donato, Heinen and DeBrusk, they dont have franchise potential. I'd argue some dont even have top line potential. As a Leaf fan I can start naming off young contributors too, but it would be pretty insignficant.

You name the core and look at the ages.

Tavares 28
Matthews 21
Marner 21
Nylander 22
Rielly 24
Andersen 29
Average age: 24.2

vs.

Bergeron 33
Marchand 30
Pastarnak 22
add someone here?
McAvoy 20
Rask 31
Average age: 27.2*
*Only using 5 players skews the average age

Carlo, Donato, Heinen, Debrusk vs. Dermott, Kapanen, Johnson, Brown is more or less a wash with the slight edge going to Boston's players for being more proven.

That's all fair, I'm fine admitting the Leafs top sub-25 talent trumps the B's. That doesn't mean Bergeron, Marchand etc will stop contributing because they're 30+ though...maybe their long-term outlook isn't as rosy, I'll grant that, but for this season do you really expect a drop-off from those key guys? That's what we're talking about here, isn't it?

On another note, don't sleep on Donato. 5 G, 4 A in 12 NHL games, 5 G, 1 A in five OLY games, almost a goal per game and 1.48 PPG in his junior year at Harvard, the kid just scores. He probably won't be an elite talent but he could be a core piece for the Bruins if he keeps scoring the way he has everywhere he's gone. Again: the Leafs surely have the better sub-25 core, but for this season is there really a reason to expect a regression from a Bruins team with as much depth and young talent as they have?

 

[The Podium]

That's all fair, I'm fine admitting the Leafs top sub-25 talent trumps the B's. That doesn't mean Bergeron, Marchand etc will stop contributing because they're 30+ though...maybe their long-term outlook isn't as rosy, I'll grant that, but for this season do you really expect a drop-off from those key guys? That's what we're talking about here, isn't it?

On another note, don't sleep on Donato. 5 G, 4 A in 12 NHL games, 5 G, 1 A in five OLY games, almost a goal per game and 1.48 PPG in his junior year at Harvard, the kid just scores. He probably won't be an elite talent but he could be a core piece for the Bruins if he keeps scoring the way he has everywhere he's gone. Again: the Leafs surely have the better sub-25 core, but for this season is there really a reason to expect a regression from a Bruins team with as much depth and young talent as they have?

Well the original argument was about how Boston was as young as Toronto, which i corrected to say was misleading.

I personally feel itll be a three team race between Boston, Tampa and Toronto with any of the 3 capable of winning the division (Florida as a dark horse here as long as Lou stays healthy). Also full disclosure, I think Bergeron is among the top 5 best players of his generation, so I'm not sleeping on him.

As for Donato, he has a good chance to end up a top line player, or even an elite player, but doesnt strike me as a blue chip cant miss prospect. However, with that said, I have learned not to sleep on any of Boston's late 1st/2nd round picks.

 

[pb1300]

Here we go...lets turn this it to another Leafs thread.

 

[MMANumminen]

I'm gonna say Florida because Barkov and no one else will