Carolinas Identity*
I'm a bad troll...
drew doughty had 10 goals and was -2 when he ws 20
erik karlsson had 6 goals and 14 points
shall i go on?
it isn't baseless homer defending it is just facts
Proposal: Boston-carolina
- Thread starter Montecristo
- Start date
drew doughty had 10 goals and was -2 when he ws 20
erik karlsson had 6 goals and 14 points
shall i go on?
it isn't baseless homer defending it is just facts
riverhawkey91
Registered User
Hanifin "declining" is obviously greatly exaggerated / flat out untrue, but agreed that Carolina would add in that case.
I know we've seen high-end forwards get traded for lesser defenseman in the past, but that was often because teams either had a forward to spare (Hall from EDM) or were in desperate need of a defenseman (also EDM here). Boston is neither of those things, so straight up value-wise, I think the player Pastrnak has become is more valuable than the player Hanifin is/will be to a team in Boston's situation.
I know we've seen high-end forwards get traded for lesser defenseman in the past, but that was often because teams either had a forward to spare (Hall from EDM) or were in desperate need of a defenseman (also EDM here). Boston is neither of those things, so straight up value-wise, I think the player Pastrnak has become is more valuable than the player Hanifin is/will be to a team in Boston's situation.
Gabe Kupari
Registered User
No. Its baseless homer defending for sure.
Pasta is worth more than Hanifin. Like it or not...
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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Do you know what the terms "regression" and "decline" means? I really don't think you do.
Now, if you want to say that Hanifin, to date, hasn't lived up to his #5 OA pick or that Hanifin hasn't adjusted to the NHL and made as much of an impact as you expected him to, that might be a fair statement. But to say that a guy, that was better in his 2nd NHL season than he was in his 1st NHL season is "regressing" or "declining" makes me think you don't have a good grasp on what those words mean.
RodTheBawd
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2013
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How dare you speak ill of perennial Norris contenders Matt Tennyson, Klas Dahlbeck, and Ryan Murphy.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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I agree Canes would have to add, which is what I said earlier in this thread, but let's keep in mind a couple of things.
First, this was a Bruins fan that proposed this trade, not a Canes fan so quit acting like Canes fans are being unreasonable here.
Secondly, Pasta is today a better player than Hanifin is today, but a team trading for Hanifin isn't trading for what he is today, but what they expect him to become. IMO, projecting a 20 year old defenseman who came straight to the NHL is well, downright silly. Victor Hedman struggled his first 2-3 years in the league when he came straight after being drafted, now look at him. Most of the best defensemen in the NHL today (guys like Letang, Subban, Weber, Suter, Keith, Burns, Shattenkirk, Josi, etc.. etc...) weren't even yet IN the NHL at the same point of their career where Hanfin is (2 years post draft) and some of the guys that were (Hedman, Jones) weren't doing any better than Hanifin. Heck, Burns wasn't even a defenseman yet at this point in his career. Guys like Doughty, and to a lesser extent Werenski are more the exception than the rule.
Without question, a forward, especially a winger, can jump to the NHL and have a much bigger impact than a defenseman at a young age. Maybe Hanifin will never reach the heights that were expected of him when he was drafted, maybe he will, but declaring what he will or won't be today is pretty short sighted.
Personally, I would have preferred to see Hanifin get another year or two in college vs. jumping right to the pros as he wasn't NHL ready last year IMO. Given how some college guys end up not signing and going UFA, I can see why Carolina wanted to get him signed right away though.
RodTheBawd
Registered User
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I forgot to ask, my friend, since you have watched enough of Hanifin to declare that he is "declining" (at 20 years old
), what are some areas he's struggling with and needs to work on?
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
You're the one who isn't providing any facts to back up any of the ridiculous stuff you're saying and keeps repeating your little catch phrase "like it or not".
Most canes fans agree Hanifin wouldn't get Pasta without adding. We didn't start this thread.
Roboturner913
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2012
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So, according to this board,
--Slavin is wildly overrated because he plays for a national media darling.
--Pesce is decent, but only because he plays with Slavin - but that doesn't mean that Slavin isn't still totes overrated, mind you.
--Faulk is terrible defensively and a #3 at best, decent PP specialist tho.
--Hanifin is regressing and in decline.
--Fleury is already a bust, and was only good in the AHL because he's overage.
--Bean has no chance at being any good because his name isn't McAvoy.
--Good thing we have Trevor Van Reimsdyk around, he's not a #1 but he'll have to do while we sort out the rest of these awful players.
And that's just the defensemen!
--Staal is overpaid, a 3C at best, and your team (Penguins, Oilers) would be happy to trade for him and relieve us of this horrible burden, but we need to retain salary.
--Skinner is one hit away from death and Couturier is a better player even thought Skinner had more goals (37) than Couturier had points (34) last year, and Skinner outpoints him at roughly a 2 to 1 ratio, but reasons and logic.
--Lindholm is a center?????????????????? wtf
--Aho is just a soft, small, one-dimensional waterbug winger who would be a 3rd liner at best on the vaunted Oilers, but needs some work in the AHL first
--Rask is way overpaid, terrible contract, just terrible, he'll never get better and $4 million for 48 points is just disgraceful
--Justin Williams only had good numbers because of the Caps offense. He'll be lucky to score 12 goals with the awful, awful Hurricanes offense.
--Marcus Kruger hasn't been any good since 1987.
--Everybody else is literal human garbage, not a good player to be found. I wouldn't trade one decent 2nd liner for the entire roster.
--Slavin is wildly overrated because he plays for a national media darling.
--Pesce is decent, but only because he plays with Slavin - but that doesn't mean that Slavin isn't still totes overrated, mind you.
--Faulk is terrible defensively and a #3 at best, decent PP specialist tho.
--Hanifin is regressing and in decline.
--Fleury is already a bust, and was only good in the AHL because he's overage.
--Bean has no chance at being any good because his name isn't McAvoy.
--Good thing we have Trevor Van Reimsdyk around, he's not a #1 but he'll have to do while we sort out the rest of these awful players.
And that's just the defensemen!
--Staal is overpaid, a 3C at best, and your team (Penguins, Oilers) would be happy to trade for him and relieve us of this horrible burden, but we need to retain salary.
--Skinner is one hit away from death and Couturier is a better player even thought Skinner had more goals (37) than Couturier had points (34) last year, and Skinner outpoints him at roughly a 2 to 1 ratio, but reasons and logic.
--Lindholm is a center?????????????????? wtf
--Aho is just a soft, small, one-dimensional waterbug winger who would be a 3rd liner at best on the vaunted Oilers, but needs some work in the AHL first
--Rask is way overpaid, terrible contract, just terrible, he'll never get better and $4 million for 48 points is just disgraceful
--Justin Williams only had good numbers because of the Caps offense. He'll be lucky to score 12 goals with the awful, awful Hurricanes offense.
--Marcus Kruger hasn't been any good since 1987.
--Everybody else is literal human garbage, not a good player to be found. I wouldn't trade one decent 2nd liner for the entire roster.
BleedBlue14
UrGeNcY
Seems like Boston has more of a need for scoring than defense but when Chara is done my god a McAvoy-Hanifin pairing has to be tempting. Only way this deal would make sense is if the Lawton runout was true and progresses to a point where Boston can't sign Pasta. Gotta say aside from getting a similar talent to Pasta this isn't a horrible idea if you can't get Pasta back.
Carolinas Identity*
I'm a bad troll...
ooohhhh. i wanna play to
cam ward's last good season was 04/05
darling was an okay back up but only cause keith seabrook and hjalmarsson masked his defensive liabilities
PatriceBergeronFan
Registered User
Well, of course nobody wants to pay the asking price. I'd love to find a way to make a move for a top-line F for the Canes without touching our D depth...but it's not realistic.
If the Canes move Hanifin, alone or as part of a package, Pasta is the exact type of player they'd demand back.
Slavin is an above average dman, Hanifin is not, doubt he e ercgets there. Fleury should make the team this year and Bean may be a year or two away. As for Skinner, people need to realize every player is one hit away from being done, people have been saying the same thing about Bergeron for some time. Canes will be fine this year Williams will bring lots to the table, they are not far off from being a solid contender.
I forgot to ask, my friend, since you have watched enough of Hanifin to declare that he is "declining" (at 20 years old
For he he has an extremely low hockey IQ for someone so highly regarded by SOME. When he came into the league he showed great promise, that didn't last long. For those that blame his partners, well, if he was so great he should be lifting the games of his d partners, not having people blame them for his ability to hold up to his high draft number. Look around the league at star young dmen, Werneski with the jackets for example, he is solid no matter who ge is with.
Same here. The Bruins need Pastrnak more than another young D unless he is a #1 D. Maybe Hanifin turns out to be that, maybe not. Right now they need Pastrnak more.
I could make a counter proposal but realistically it would not make much sense for Carolina to trade Hanifin unless they are getting exactly what they want.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
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The more you post, the worse you look.
When Hanifin came into the league, he didn't look promising. He struggled, as most 18 year olds do. Most rational hockey people knew it would take some time. He STILL shows a lot of promise.
And for your "Werenski is solid no matter who he is with". Do you realize he was almost exclusively used with Seth Jones in his 1 NHL season? So how do you know he was solid "no matter who he was with" when he wasn't really with anyone else? Sounds like you are just making stuff up to me.
https://leftwinglock.com/line-combi...olumbus-blue-jackets&strength=EV&gametype=ALL
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
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And if I was a Bruins fan, I would say the exact same thing. A couple years ago, maybe it was different, but with the depth Boston has now acquired on defense, it would not be a good move on their part, unless of course they aren't able to sign Pasta (but I don't see that being an issue). Even then, I'd say Canes would have to add.
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Jakub Nakladal, too, how can you forget that legend?
[MOD] He scored 22 points in his rookie season, and 29 in his sophomore season. Where are you from that a point increase of around 30% is regression? If he's regressing sooo hard, why did his play elevate after Ron Hainsey was traded? After Hainsey was moved he played 26 games and scored 14 points. So in the first 55 games he scored 15 points.
So in the final 1/3ish of he season, he put up almost half of his total offense for the year, while looking noticeably better playing a larger role, with a better defensive partner.
Please, please, explain to me how a guy who improved his game as the season went on is getting worse.
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His plus minus is getting worse, he had the worse plus minute on the entire team last season while three of his teammates were high plus players. Now of course that must be the fault of his d partners, and his ice time is getting less as Slbinhas passed him. Now people won't like the +/- but it is a stat, and when others have +23 and he is -19, it speaks volumes . He will never get you Pasta and the Bruins already have dmen better than him, not required.
Again, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. His total time on ice actually increased this season. Pesce and Slbin were the only two Hurricanes with a 'high plus', plus minus in general is a stupid ****ing stat anyway. Look at the leaders season by season. For every Datsyuk or Chara you have two Wade Reddens, Marek Maliks, or Jeff Schultzs. The common denominator here is they all played for top teams, and as I'm sure you're aware, Carolina wasn't a top team last year.
But back to the ice time comment. It isn't decreasing. It's increasing. Look at his game log. For this season he typically played anywhere from 15-18 minutes per game, never breaking 20. After Hainsey gets traded that jumps from basically 18-22 minutes per game. Over those 26 games he skated over 20 minutes 16 times, including 10 of the last 11 games of the season (and the one game he didn't pass 20:00 he played 19:58).
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DaveG
Noted Jerk
From the time of the Hainsey trade to the time the Canes were eliminated Hanifin was a +4.
Roboturner913
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2012
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he was -19 on the season, but +2 for the final two months of the season after being promoted to the 2nd pair.
How is that regressing? it's literally the exact opposite of that.
Also:
Zaitsev was -22
OEL was -25
Ghost was -21
Reilly was -20
Muzzin was -21
Ekblad was -23
Also, which three of his teammates were high plus players? Pesce and Slavin yes, but they played most of the season paired together. Who's the 3rd? Perhaps you are referring to Lee Stempniak and his +2, or Valentin Zykov and Lucas Wallmark who were each +1 while playing 10 games between them total. Certainly you would not be referring to the dearly departed Hand Grenade Hainsey, who needed to get a +8 in his stint with the Penguins just to end up a -8 on the season. Or the legendary wrecking crew of Matt Tennyson, Ryan Murphy, Jakub Nakladal and Klas Dahlbeck. LOL
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