Post-Game Talk: Boscosharks at the Holtbys 7pm

[Ovechkins Wodka]

He's taking up almost $8M in cap space to regularly be our worst player, criticizing for being terrible is pretty fair.

You are out to lunch if you think Kuz is our worst player

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Out of all the caps who have played at least 250 minutes kuzy is: last in cf%, ff%, sf%, xGF%, 2nd worst in hdcf%, and has a 1.030 PDO. This is not play you would expect from a player who is making top line money.

What do any of those have to do with actual hockey? Where do expected goals for go on the scoreboard?

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

You are out to lunch if you think Kuz is our worst player

He is an empty calorie scorer who cant play defense, control possession or drive play at a high level. I dont think the Caps have any true bad players but Kuzy is absolutely not close to being one of the best.

 

[ViD]

Out of all the caps who have played at least 250 minutes kuzy is: last in cf%, ff%, sf%, xGF%, 2nd worst in hdcf%, and has a 1.030 PDO. This is not play you would expect from a player who is making top line money.

Who cares about this ? He’s PPG

 

[Kuznetsnow]

He is an empty calorie scorer who cant play defense, control possession or drive play at a high level. I dont think the Caps have any true bad players but Kuzy is absolutely not close to being one of the best.

Yes his ecpf% (empty calorie points for) is absurdly high. Jesus Christ when did this stathead epidemic take off? The only thing those numbers show is that a lot of people don't understand that correlation does not imply causation

 

[kicksavedave]

no one here cares

Right... Because we actually have eyeballs.

 

[txpd]

 

[Sam Spade]

I wonder whether this would be a registered hit.

In Pittsburgh it would be. Apparently they count it as a hit when you slam the bench door.

From lasts nights game in the 'Burgh:

 

[txpd]

After tonight I am thinking of getting the wife to order me some Warroad gear from TJ Oshie

 

[kicksavedave]

He is an empty calorie scorer who cant play defense, control possession or drive play at a high level. I dont think the Caps have any true bad players but Kuzy is absolutely not close to being one of the best.

Except, you know, when he's nearly winning the Conn Smythe on his way to leading the Caps to a Stanley Cup. Apart from that he sucks at hockey.

Rolleyes

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

Right... Because we actually have eyeballs.

He looks bad even to the eye test, do you watch him when he doesnt have the puck? The only player on the team more disengaged in the defensive zone is Ovechkin. Kuzy is lazy, yeah might have like 2 or 3 good rushes and some fancy passes in a game but that doesnt mean his overall contribution to the game is a net positive.

 

[Sam Spade]

 

[txpd]

He looks bad even to the eye test, do you watch him when he doesnt have the puck? The only player on the team more disengaged in the defensive zone is Ovechkin. Kuzy is lazy, yeah might have like 2 or 3 good rushes and some fancy passes in a game but that doesnt mean his overall contribution to the game is a net positive.

 

[895]

Maaco isn't a person. It's a spirit. It can never ever leave. It just finds a different host.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

He looks bad even to the eye test, do you watch him when he doesnt have the puck? The only player on the team more disengaged in the defensive zone is Ovechkin. Kuzy is lazy, yeah might have like 2 or 3 good rushes and some fancy passes in a game but that doesnt mean his overall contribution to the game is a net positive.

Well his role in the defensive zone is to be a lightning rod for transition to offense. He doesn't get scored on much and his "2 or 3 good rushes" (more like 7 or 8) regularly translate to goals so... he's literally very much a net positive

 

[kicksavedave]

Maaco isn't a person. It's a spirit. It can never ever leave. It just finds a different host.

It's like Azazel from the movie Fallen.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Maaco is Stephenson

 

[twabby]

Encouraging effort from the D after a dreadful performance against CBJ. Really good team.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Except, you know, when he's nearly winning the Conn Smythe on his way to leading the Caps to a Stanley Cup. Apart from that he sucks at hockey.

Rolleyes

I believe that was the same year the advanced stats had the Caps as one of the worst teams...you know that year we won the Cup

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

Well his role in the defensive zone is to be a lightning rod for transition to offense. He doesn't get scored on much and his "2 or 3 good rushes" (more like 7 or 8) regularly translate to goals so... he's literally very much a net positive

Just because he is supposed to be good doesnt excuse him being terrible defensively. There are tons of high end centers who can drive play well offensively while at least break even defensively. He has the worst net xG rates out of all the main Caps fowards and ranks 11th worst in the entire NHL in net xG rates. Now I don't think he is that bad because hes always been able to bend PDO in his favor but hes not worth his cap hit and hes not one of the better caps forwards.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Just because he is supposed to be good doesnt excuse him being terrible defensively. There are tons of high end centers who can drive play well offensively while at least break even defensively. He has the worst net xG rates out of all the main Caps fowards and ranks 11th worst in the entire NHL in net xG rates. Now I don't think he is that bad because hes always been able to bend PDO in his favor but hes not worth his cap hit and hes not one of the better caps forwards.

Those numbers don't make him terrible defensively. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone randomly decided that shots for/against with some additional contextual variables thrown in and put through a stat 101 blender can be used as an ironclad statistical model for what constitutes good and bad hockey does not make it so. "Expected" stats are by and large garbage and can lead you to believe things like Nick Jensen being better "defensively" than John Carlson.

 

[kicksavedave]

Just because he is supposed to be good doesnt excuse him being terrible defensively. There are tons of high end centers who can drive play well offensively while at least break even defensively. He has the worst net xG rates out of all the main Caps fowards and ranks 11th worst in the entire NHL in net xG rates. Now I don't think he is that bad because hes always been able to bend PDO in his favor but hes not worth his cap hit and hes not one of the better caps forwards.

I've never put anyone on ignore but this line just might make me consider it.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Just because he is supposed to be good doesnt excuse him being terrible defensively. There are tons of high end centers who can drive play well offensively while at least break even defensively. He has the worst net xG rates out of all the main Caps fowards and ranks 11th worst in the entire NHL in net xG rates. Now I don't think he is that bad because hes always been able to bend PDO in his favor but hes not worth his cap hit and hes not one of the better caps forwards.

Having two centers that can put up PPG is almost a must in the NHL and not many teams have it. We do and so do the Pens and together we have won 3 of the last 4 cups. Kuzy could be better in his end but he puts up points and opens up lanes for players like Vrana and Oshie to score too.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

I believe that was the same year the advanced stats had the Caps as one of the worst teams...you know that year we won the Cup

Yeah well guess what, they may have won a "real" cup *yawn* but statistically they still have 0 expected cups per year. Don't feel so smart now do you?

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

Those numbers don't make him terrible defensively. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone randomly decided that shots for/against with some additional contextual variables thrown in and put through a stat 101 blender can be used as an ironclad statistical model for what constitutes good and bad hockey does not make it so. "Expected" stats are by and large garbage and can lead you to believe things like Nick Jensen being better "defensively" than John Carlson.[/QUOTE]

So his one ice analytics and eye test show both Carlson and Kuznetsov are poor defensively but theyre not because you say so? Look these heat maps of their defense, heat maps arent analytics they just show shots allowed when a player is on the ice, these literally prove that Carlson and Kuznetsov are not good defensively and Jensen is good defensively. I think that John Carlson is a great player and is better than Nick Jensen but Jensen is better at defense.