Speculation: Borgstrom viewing his options, signs with HIFK (Finnish league), contract includes NHL out-clause

TheImpatientPanther

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My guess is that he wants a 1-way contract and is just using this as leverage.

I'm not sure what kind of money he's looking for, but he hasn't really proven himself to warrant much. Maybe 1-2 years at 900K-1M?

Ya good point on him leveraging for the 1 way deal, he wants the big boy money and half a million after taxes is a lot better than 40-50k in Springfield.

You add up his 2 partial AHL seasons and it's not hopeless (16g-45pt in 73 games), that's basically a full AHL season and most would be happy with a .61 ppg pace. I get his point totals stalled a bit but he was deployed as a 2 way guy this year.

Just think if he can't cut it as a C, give him a shot on the wing before trading or letting him go overseas.

Maybe Borgstrom - Wallmark/Acciari - Connolly as a 3rd line?
 

violaswallet

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Ya good point on him leveraging for the 1 way deal, he wants the big boy money and half a million after taxes is a lot better than 40-50k in Springfield.

You add up his 2 partial AHL seasons and it's not hopeless (16g-45pt in 73 games), that's basically a full AHL season and most would be happy with a .61 ppg pace. I get his point totals stalled a bit but he was deployed as a 2 way guy this year.

Just think if he can't cut it as a C, give him a shot on the wing before trading or letting him go overseas.

Maybe Borgstrom - Wallmark/Acciari - Connolly as a 3rd line?
Let's wait to see with him. On the bright side, we gave him some more time to develop than prospects of the past: Drew Shore and Nick Bjugstad were both players that we thrust into key roles perhaps too early. (Although with Bjugy it was probably due to injuries)

From the GR article, I expect only one of Hoff, Dady, and Haula to be back. I don't know which one: I think Hoffman and Dady thrived here a lot more than expected.

Clearly we have our 1c/3C in Barky and Wally, 1LW in Huby, and 2/3W in Vatty and Connolly. I think we're definitely playing Tippett next season.

I've got to think that Borgy gets a chance. I like the idea of pairing Borg with Acciari: in my many ways, it would be good: let Acciari take the faceoffs and give some Borgy some grit.
 

TheImpatientPanther

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Let's wait to see with him. On the bright side, we gave him some more time to develop than prospects of the past: Drew Shore and Nick Bjugstad were both players that we thrust into key roles perhaps too early. (Although with Bjugy it was probably due to injuries)

From the GR article, I expect only one of Hoff, Dady, and Haula to be back. I don't know which one: I think Hoffman and Dady thrived here a lot more than expected.

Clearly we have our 1c/3C in Barky and Wally, 1LW in Huby, and 2/3W in Vatty and Connolly. I think we're definitely playing Tippett next season.

I've got to think that Borgy gets a chance. I like the idea of pairing Borg with Acciari: in my many ways, it would be good: let Acciari take the faceoffs and give some Borgy some grit.

Totally agree. Great post amigo.
Remember Borg was a "reach" when we selected him and he went undrafted the year prior so he was really happy to be a 1st round pick.

It'd be pretty shitty of him to fold up shop and leave us hanging when we really didn't block him or jerk him around at all, he got some NHL games in, made some coin and needed some more time in AHL, nothing wrong with that. The door is open for him to nab a spot now so I think it was just a bargaining tactic as MintyFresh had alluded to.
 

Lempo

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Hold everything!

He doesn't qualify for RFA. Having burned the first year of his ELC by playing only a couple of games, that season doesn't qualify for a professional season needed for him to qualify for a RFA.

(Normally the length of ELC corresponds exactly to the seasons required for RFA status, but there's this trickery in the CBA that causes the ELC expediters get bitten by it.)

He's in this weird limbo where only FLA can at this point sign him to an NHL SPC. No wonder he needs leverage from KHL, because he can't be offersheeted.

CBA10.2 (c) said:
Players With Fewer Than Three Years of Professional Experience. Any Player with fewer than the required years of professional experience set forth in Section 10.2 shall have no right to Free Agency except as provided in this section. Upon expiration of such a Player's SPC, the Club to whom the Player was last under SPC shall be entitled to make that Player a Qualifying Offer under the terms and conditions set forth in Section 10.2(a)(ii) above. A Club which makes this Qualifying Offer will have the exclusive right to negotiate with any such Player. In the event no such Qualifying Offer is made, the Player shall immediately become an Unrestricted Free Agent pursuant to Section 10.2(a)(iv) above

You can verify this from his Expiry Status on CapFriendly:

Henrik Borgström - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I assume if he's not signed he will be on FLA's exclusive reserve list until 2025 when he qualifies for UFA courtesy of his age.
 
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FinlandPanther

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Borg sucks. I held out hope for him but the fact he still looked like the same soft, slow, disinterested player he was when he was first drafted shows he could care less about being the best he can be.

Gettem outta here!
Posts like this make me shake my head after he’s developed amazingly every year except this one. He run over your dog? Next year is telling, getting rid of a player just Becuase of that is stupid.
 

TheWhiskeyThief

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Not an RFA, but if he went to a league with a transfer agreement they would retain his rights until 2023 under Group 6, but his NHL career would likely be over considering he’s a bottom 6 player.
 

panthersfan751

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Even considering him a project, the fact he couldn't play well enough to earn an NHL spot was a big disappointment.

The 2019-20 season was his 4th season after being drafted so I don't think it was unfair to expect he could make it. He absolutely needs to be able to earn a spot on the opening night roster next season. If he can't, I would question how much further he will actually develop. Obviously there are players that develop very late but those are exceptions and not the rule.
 

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Not an RFA, but if he went to a league with a transfer agreement they would retain his rights until 2023 under Group 6, but his NHL career would likely be over considering he’s a bottom 6 player.
I don't think the league he goes to play factors into it. For the purposes of Group 6, he does already have the three professional seasons needed (different rules than for RFA; one game is enough for him for a season to count).

Though I question his qualifying for Group 6 if he now goes to overseas until 25. The wording in the CBA says:

"Any Group 6 Player shall, at the expiration of his SPC, become an Unrestricted Free Agent"

I think this means that to become UFA his SPC should expire while he already qualifies for a Group 6 Player, so when he has already turned 25 at the time of expiration.

This type of UFA is for guys who have been signed to NHL but been kept (mostly) in the minors for their prime and could use a scenery change before hitting the regular UFA age of 27 (and who is given a chance to try find a team that would actually play him in the big league), not for guys who ditched the NHL after their ELC was up because they weren't "happy" with their drafting team.
 
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violaswallet

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Totally agree. Great post amigo.
Remember Borg was a "reach" when we selected him and he went undrafted the year prior so he was really happy to be a 1st round pick.

It'd be pretty shitty of him to fold up shop and leave us hanging when we really didn't block him or jerk him around at all, he got some NHL games in, made some coin and needed some more time in AHL, nothing wrong with that. The door is open for him to nab a spot now so I think it was just a bargaining tactic as MintyFresh had alluded to.
Yep. Plus with him being expansion draft eligible, I think we need to give him the chance, otherwise I think we'd use lose him...
 
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TheWhiskeyThief

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Yep. Plus with him being expansion draft eligible, I think we need to give him the chance, otherwise I think we'd use lose him...
Gonna cover a couple of things from different posts here.

1: Unless he signs and plays basically the whole year in Florida, he won’t be expansion eligible.

2: for retaining rights, the league you play in matters. With the Swiss signing a transfer agreement, only the KHL stays outside any transfer agreement, so rights stay frozen until age 27(like what happened with Nicklas Jensen & NYR.) Under the CBA, he has completed 3 pro seasons and is out of contract.

An expired contract is an expired contract; under CBA 10.2(b)(I)(C) he would not be a defected player. The Panthers could retain his rights by making successive qualifying offers only if he played in Liiga and not KHL.
 

pb1300

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Let's wait to see with him. On the bright side, we gave him some more time to develop than prospects of the past: Drew Shore and Nick Bjugstad were both players that we thrust into key roles perhaps too early. (Although with Bjugy it was probably due to injuries)

From the GR article, I expect only one of Hoff, Dady, and Haula to be back. I don't know which one: I think Hoffman and Dady thrived here a lot more than expected.

Clearly we have our 1c/3C in Barky and Wally, 1LW in Huby, and 2/3W in Vatty and Connolly. I think we're definitely playing Tippett next season.

I've got to think that Borgy gets a chance. I like the idea of pairing Borg with Acciari: in my many ways, it would be good: let Acciari take the faceoffs and give some Borgy some grit.

From what Tallon said, there has been no discussions with anyone.

[MOD EDIT: The Athletic is behind a paywall and we can't copy things directly from there]

it’s all going to depend on what the cap looks like. It might help us if the cap doesn’t go up that much. There would be less suitors for their services, unless they are just looking for money, and are willing to go to a bad team.
 
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KW

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Yep. Plus with him being expansion draft eligible, I think we need to give him the chance, otherwise I think we'd use lose him...
My reading is that those of us who have called Borg a bust or said that he should step up, are ALSO totally on board with “giving him a chance”. I doubt that anyone feels any animosity towards him whatsoever. If he suddenly starts practicing and playing like a guy who’s likely to have some success in the NHL, that would be awesome. Give him all the chances in the world to show he belongs.

But the point some doubters are making is, he’s been given chances already. Sure, give him more chances, but when is he going to start impressing a little? When is he going to really work on his physique and speed and determination? That’s what we’re waiting for, and sure hope he’ll make it happen!

It’s ridiculous that we get called out for being “mean”. It’s not about being mean, it’s about being a fan who wants his/her team to win the friggin Stanley Cup, or at least get in the playoffs. It’s about wanting a highly skilled and tough team on the ice. Can Borg be one of the guys? Sure, I think he’s ABLE to. When’s he gonna start DOING it?
 

Lempo

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2: for retaining rights, the league you play in matters. With the Swiss signing a transfer agreement, only the KHL stays outside any transfer agreement, so rights stay frozen until age 27(like what happened with Nicklas Jensen & NYR.) Under the CBA, he has completed 3 pro seasons and is out of contract.

An expired contract is an expired contract; under CBA 10.2(b)(I)(C) he would not be a defected player. The Panthers could retain his rights by making successive qualifying offers only if he played in Liiga and not KHL.

I wouldn't bet on you being right here: Jensen's rights stay with Rangers courtesy of him being an RFA. Like Borgy, Jensen wasn't signed to NHL, so there's really no "transfer" happening under transfer agreement or anything.

Here's a CapFriendly tweet from a couple of years back listing all Group 6 Players at the time. Everyone listed have a cap hit which means every one of them were signed to a NHL SPC at the time. I'm fairly certain that to qualify for Group 6 UFA the player needs to fulfill the criteria (=to be 25 and not have played 80 NHL games) at the time when his free agency begins.



CapFriendly defines Group 6 UFA as player whose contract is expiring (so, didn't already expire three years ago):

What is a Group 6 UFA?

A player whose contract is expiring and meets all of the following conditions will become an unrestricted free agent (UFA):

NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CapFriendly lists just one guy not currently under SPC to be a Group 6 UFA this year: Nicolas Kerdiles, whose latest SPC ended after season 2018-19 at the age of 25 (and who got his UFA 6 status at that time):

Nicolas Kerdiles - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Yet there must be any amount of guys who served a three year ELC, didn't much get to sniff the NHL airs and didn't get re-signed to an SPC but went back to Europe or wherever. These guys don't get to return to knock the doors of NHL teams at 25 as Group 6 UFA (but might already have become UFA courtesy of not having been even tendered the QO when their ELC was up; these are the "UFA no QO" guys on the CapFriendly listing that can be found behind the "Browse" link).

Case study: Max Friberg played 5 seasons under NHL contract and 6 NHL games until leaving for SHL after 2016-2017. He was 26 on last July 1st, didn't qualify for UFA, didn't qualify for Group 6 UFA, is currently a RFA for Canadiens until July 1 this year when he qualifies for UFA.

Max Friberg - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


In any case, Panthers don't need to make successive QOs to Borg to retain his rights:

CBA 10.2 (a)(ii) said:
In order to receive a Right of First Refusal or Draft Choice Compensation (at the Prior Club's option) with respect to a Restricted Free Agent, the Prior Club of a Restricted Free Agent must tender to the Player, no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time on the later of June 25 or the first Monday after the Entry Draft of the final year of the Player's SPC, a "Qualifying Offer", which shall be an offer of an SPC, for one League Year, which is subject to salary arbitration if such Player is otherwise eligible for salary --

They need only give him the QO, in his case $874,125 (105 percent of his last year base salary $832,000) just once, this year as his SPC expires. If Borgy now chooses to pass that and won't sign a SPC with FLA, FLA will retain his rights until UFA and can negotiate with him for a league minimum SPC if they like.

The standard expiration date for the QO is July 15, 5 p.m. NY time, but the team can extend it if they so choose, and anyway this year for obvious reasons there's bound to be some arrangements for the off season dates, so there's no hurry to get anything done right now.
 
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batting1k

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I like Borgström as a prospect just as much as the next person but I do not believe he is deserving of a 1-way deal yet. If he’s gonna walk if we don’t give him a 1-way, then let him do it. Just my opinion.

Maybe we should’ve traded him for McDonagh+ or whoever it was back when we had the chance.
 

airbud

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Posts like this make me shake my head after he’s developed amazingly every year except this one. He run over your dog? Next year is telling, getting rid of a player just Becuase of that is stupid.
I remember when people used to get banned for saying something about another posters mom being run over by a car, but dog is way worse , have you no decency?
 

TheWhiskeyThief

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I wouldn't bet on you being right here: Jensen's rights stay with Rangers courtesy of him being an RFA. Like Borgy, Jensen wasn't signed to NHL, so there's really no "transfer" happening under transfer agreement or anything.

Here's a CapFriendly tweet from a couple of years back listing all Group 6 Players at the time. Everyone listed have a cap hit which means every one of them were signed to a NHL SPC at the time. I'm fairly certain that to qualify for Group 6 UFA the player needs to fulfill the criteria (=to be 25 and not have played 80 NHL games) at the time when his free agency begins.



CapFriendly defines Group 6 UFA as player whose contract is expiring (so, didn't already expire three years ago):



NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CapFriendly lists just one guy not currently under SPC to be a Group 6 UFA this year: Nicolas Kerdiles, whose latest SPC ended after season 2018-19 at the age of 25 (and who got his UFA 6 status at that time):

Nicolas Kerdiles - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Yet there must be any amount of guys who served a three year ELC, didn't much get to sniff the NHL airs and didn't get re-signed to an SPC but went back to Europe or wherever. These guys don't get to return to knock the doors of NHL teams at 25 as Group 6 UFA (but might already have become UFA courtesy of not having been even tendered the QO when their ELC was up; these are the "UFA no QO" guys on the CapFriendly listing that can be found behind the "Browse" link).

Case study: Max Friberg played 5 seasons under NHL contract and 6 NHL games until leaving for SHL after 2016-2017. He was 26 on last July 1st, didn't qualify for UFA, didn't qualify for Group 6 UFA, is currently a RFA for Canadiens until July 1 this year when he qualifies for UFA.

Max Friberg - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


In any case, Panthers don't need to make successive QOs to Borg to retain his rights:



They need only give him the QO, in his case $874,125 (105 percent of his last year base salary $832,000) just once, this year as his SPC expires. If Borgy now chooses to pass that and won't sign a SPC with FLA, FLA will retain his rights until UFA and can negotiate with him for a league minimum SPC if they like.

The standard expiration date for the QO is July 15, 5 p.m. NY time, but the team can extend it if they so choose, and anyway this year for obvious reasons there's bound to be some arrangements for the off season dates, so there's no hurry to get anything done right now.


You have to do multiple QOs because the QO is a 1yr only deal under the CBA: it doesn’t automatically roll over
 

Lempo

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You have to do multiple QOs because the QO is a 1yr only deal under the CBA: it doesn’t automatically roll over
Read the wording of the CBA: QO is to be tendered in the "final year of the SPC".

The QO doesn't need to roll over or be renewed because it's meant to be a "better minimum" contract offer which is on the table for the RFA only for a short while, at the time when his previous SPC is up.

Having to mandatorily tender the QO to the player will force the team to sign the player at the end of his previous SPC on
the final year's terms (or little better, 100 to 110 percent of the final year salary) for one more year (or else let the player walk away as UFA).

The player can opt to accept the QO (and do it again the next year) to have his current NHL SPC renewed one year at a time until he's UFA (or to kick the can after the ELC until he's eligible to Salary Arbitration).

If the player chooses to pass the QO and instead push for a raise in the salary or longer contract term or a one-way contract or whatever, he does it with the risk that after that the team isn't forced to sign him on any terms but will still be holding his player rights. The QO train has left the station for good until he signs a new SPC. The team may at this point offer him contract on worse terms than the QO was.

An RFA can obviously try to get better terms from other teams through an offer sheet, to which his righs-holder team has the right of first refusal, but the collegiality between the GMs is a practical hurdle to that theoretical possibility. Borgy is even worse off, because he doesn't qualify for RFA due to his expedited ELC shenanigans that saw the first year burned by a couple of games and thusly he can only negotiate with FLA. But we'll see if he can remedy that by getting better terms than the third year of his ELC would've been.

It's very unfair to the player, but it is what it is. So is the whole Entry Draft and exclusive negotiation rights setup to begin with. The NHL and the NHLPA doesn't want these young guys to get too uppity in the contract business.
 
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Android 16

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From what Tallon said, there has been no discussions with anyone.

View attachment 346082

it’s all going to depend on what the cap looks like. It might help us if the cap doesn’t go up that much. There would be less suitors for their services, unless they are just looking for money, and are willing to go to a bad team.

[MOD EDIT: The Athletic is behind a paywall and we can't copy things directly from there]

Realize this was back at the deadline, but these comments are pretty clear, "I want to stay, I want to make that happen". Yet Tallon doesn't know. No one said anything yet. Yeah
 
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pb1300

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pb1300

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[MOD EDIT: The Athletic is behind a paywall and we can't copy things directly from there]


Realize this was back at the deadline, but these comments are pretty clear, "I want to stay, I want to make that happen". Yet Tallon doesn't know. No one said anything yet. Yeah

I remember that article. I’m not naive enough to think that their agents haven’t spoken to Dale, I’m just going by what was the latest as of a few days ago, not February. I can’t even imagine numbers being thrown around by either side at the moment, given the uncertainty of the season, and what next years cap number will be.
 
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