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Prospect Info: Bolts pool

VoluntaryDom

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
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93LEAFS said:
Thing is, even without injuries the floors listed were extremely high and closer to the expected return.
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Ok maybe 'bust' wasn't the right word, maybe 'realistic floor' was. I'm not saying that is the bare minimum. I am just saying that is the lowest they could likely end up.

McDavid could never score another NHL point, does that make it likely?
 
Daximus

Daximus

Wow, what a terrific audience.
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Oct 11, 2014
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Typically if you are going to do a Boom vs Bust type rating of your pool you would go for the lowest possible floor on bust, which for most guys would be never making the NHL. That's why I go more for realistic potential, without the bust. I use my own scale for forwards, defencemen and goaltenders. I typically throw in what kind of style of player I think they will be too.

For instance for the Jets I have Kyle Connor as having top 6 goalscorer potential. Which I think is a realistic expectation of him. I'm implying anything less than that would likely be a bust.
 

HoseEmDown

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Mar 25, 2012
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DominicBoltsFan said:
He had a higher ppg than our actual #2 Stralman. (As well as Lindholm and Ekblad)

IMO he is RN a #3/4. A 2nd pair D. Which is why I put that as his floor.
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He had 11 assists with 8 of them being secondary. He's a secondary player, put him on his own pairing and he will get eaten alive. He needs to be carried right now, if you need to be carried you aren't a top pair defender and at best a 4.
 

McNurse

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Sep 2, 2015
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I'm pretty the homer glasses are a bit blinding. Every prospect has a chance of completely failing, Serg, albeit a great prospect, definitely isn't safe enough to be considered to be at least a second pair defencemen, the guy has a lot of risk in his game.

Cirelli I mean come on, I love the kid but he doesn't have the offensive tools to be 1b center, he can definitely turn out to be a great 3c but that's about it. And regarding Dotchin, if he was easily going to be at least a second pair defencemen what was the point of having in the AHL for the playoffs? And if he was already good enough to be a second pair defencemen wouldn't that make him the best defencemen in the AHL?

I mean really man you can love your teams prospects but you have view them for objectively, like another poster said if all of Tampas prospects busted by your standards it would still be a whole other team, which isn't realistic
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
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Bevans said:
I don't get what you don't get about this. You can't conceive of a universe wherein Sanheim is any worse than one of the 125 best defencemen in the world?
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You obviously don't know The Dom, he has 125 lightning D prospects alone with a higher ceiling than Sanheim. A #4 defender doesn't even crack The Dom's top 300 lightning prospects. He has future Hart trophy winners outside his top 25.
 
DFC

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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DominicBoltsFan said:
Literally don't listen to Hose, I think Dotchin killed his dog. Also 90% sure Hose is married to Andrej Sustr.
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You're overrating Dotchin insanely. He happens to work really well with Hedman. But that's like his one true ticket to the NHL. The guy is 23 and wasn't even on the radar until we got decimated by injuries. There's a reason for this. He doesn't have a great skillset. He just has a super safe, generic game. If not for the chemistry with Hedman, he'd be a bottom pairing guy at best right now, with a very, very generous ceiling of a top-4 D.
 
VoluntaryDom

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
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HoseEmDown said:
You obviously don't know The Dom, he has 125 lightning D prospects alone with a higher ceiling than Sanheim. A #4 defender doesn't even crack The Dom's top 300 lightning prospects. He has future Hart trophy winners outside his top 25.
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No

Also don't call me Dom
 
MattM92

MattM92

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Dec 8, 2010
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DFC said:
You're overrating Dotchin insanely. He happens to work really well with Hedman. But that's like his one true ticket to the NHL. The guy is 23 and wasn't even on the radar until we got decimated by injuries. There's a reason for this. He doesn't have a great skillset. He just has a super safe, generic game. If not for the chemistry with Hedman, he'd be a bottom pairing guy at best right now, with a very, very generous ceiling of a top-4 D.
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Exactly this. Playing #2 minutes doesn't make you a #2 and playing with a #1 doesn't make you a #2. And I honestly think his chemistry with Hedman is so overblown. Hedman is a top 5 defenseman in the world who just had a Norris worthy season. I could suit up and look decent next to him. We can do much better than Jake Dotchin, and honestly, not much worse than him either. Before he got called up he wasn't even one of the top guys in Syracuse. He was 2nd on the depth chart at best. Even after his Cinderella stint in Tampa he looked average for Syracuse in the playoffs. I fully expect him to crash hard next season.
 
DFC

DFC

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MattM92 said:
Exactly this. Playing #2 minutes doesn't make you a #2 and playing with a #1 doesn't make you a #2. And I honestly think his chemistry with Hedman is so overblown. Hedman is a top 5 defenseman in the world who just had a Norris worthy season. I could suit up and look decent next to him. We can do much better than Jake Dotchin, and honestly, not much worse than him either. Before he got called up he wasn't even one of the top guys in Syracuse. He was 2nd on the depth chart at best. Even after his Cinderella stint in Tampa he looked average for Syracuse in the playoffs. I fully expect him to crash hard next season.
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Yeah, but there's no doubt Hedman's season, at least defensively, turned around once he was paired with Dotchin. I believe it was Macho who posted a thread, about midway through the year, that questioned whether or not Hedman was even having a good season, despite big offensive production, because his possession stats were pretty bad.

But that turned around after Hedman-Dotchin became a thing. And you might be right that it might not have been Dotchin that switched Hedhuman over into Hedmonster mode. That might have happened regardless. But because it did coincide pretty directly with Hedman-Dotchin, I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to Dotchin, until he proves otherwise. Which, as you say, he might well do.

Either way, he's not a great defenseman. He's just in a really good situation.
 
MattM92

MattM92

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DFC said:
Yeah, but there's no doubt Hedman's season, at least defensively, turned around once he was paired with Dotchin. I believe it was Macho who posted a thread, about midway through the year, that questioned whether or not Hedman was even having a good season, despite big offensive production, because his possession stats were pretty bad.

But that turned around after Hedman-Dotchin became a thing. And you might be right that it might not have been Dotchin that switched Hedhuman over into Hedmonster mode. That might have happened regardless. But because it did coincide pretty directly with Hedman-Dotchin, I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to Dotchin, until he proves otherwise. Which, as you say, he might well do.

Either way, he's not a great defenseman. He's just in a really good situation.
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Hedman's numbers without Dotchin were pretty great actually. Got marginally better with Dotchin (<1%). Meanwhile Dotchin without Hedman is not pretty. Sub-.500 possession and riding that PDO wave.
 
DFC

DFC

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MattM92 said:
Hedman's numbers without Dotchin were pretty great actually. Got marginally better with Dotchin (<1%). Meanwhile Dotchin without Hedman is not pretty. Sub-.500 possession and riding that PDO wave.
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Maybe Hedman started turning around before Dotchin then? I clearly remember a thread about how his numbers were not good (by his own standards) early in the year, despite all the points he was putting up.

I have no doubt Dotchins numbers would be terrible without Hedman. I think most of us believe, in a vacuum, he's a fringe NHL defenseman.

But I mean, either way, he did show he can be part of a good Lightning team. If he can just Do No Harm while Hedman does his thing, it still allows Anton Stralman to face lesser competition, which seemed to be the main benefit of having Dotchin on the roster.
 
Bolt32

Bolt32

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Aug 24, 2004
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I refer to Dotchin to like me and my cousin in beer leagues. I'm about a C level player he's like a D minus player. Put us together and we dominate the C league defensively. Separate us and im average and he's getting dominated. Hedman and Dotchin is the NHL version of that. I like Dotchin, just he's not a top pairing guy. I doubt he will be a top four in the future. Just for whatever reason he does really well with our top Dman
 
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