Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VII

[aragorn]

Not only is Ryan a better hockey player than Chiasson he's a much better playmaker & puck handler. Ryan's problems are all associated with his health & injuries not to mention constantly losing his linemates in Mac & Turris. Now he could possible lose Dzingel & Duchene but Chiasson is more of a grinder with some limited offensive ability IMO. Ryan's skills could also be diminishing slightly with age, sometimes he looks slow & too methodical out there.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Not only is Ryan a better hockey player than Chiasson he's a much better playmaker & puck handler. Ryan's problems are all associated with his health & injuries not to mention constantly losing his linemates in Mac & Turris. Now he could possible lose Dzingel & Duchene but Chiasson is more of a grinder with some limited offensive ability IMO. Ryan's skills could also be diminishing slightly with age, sometimes he looks slow & too methodical out there.

His struggles aren't all injury related. His hands have nothing to do with him being as soft as a pillow and having some of the worst balance you'll see on a pro. His conditioning is terrible. Dude is weak and it shows every year. He gets blown over by a soft breeze.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

His struggles aren't all injury related. His hands have nothing to do with him being as soft as a pillow and having some of the worst balance you'll see on a pro. His conditioning is terrible. Dude is weak and it shows every year. He gets blown over by a soft breeze.

Ya, he's decently offensively but everything else about his game is really poor, especially his skating/acceleration. No team scouts Ottawa and says how are we going to match up against Ryan and try and shut this guy down?

 

[bert]

His struggles aren't all injury related. His hands have nothing to do with him being as soft as a pillow and having some of the worst balance you'll see on a pro. His conditioning is terrible. Dude is weak and it shows every year. He gets blown over by a soft breeze.

You clearly cant look at him objectively.

 

[JungleBeat]

Can’t wait until this anchor is gone from the Sens. Lazy player and is getting slower.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Can’t wait until this anchor is gone from the Sens. Lazy player and is getting slower.

Hey we're just over the half way mark of his contract!

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

You clearly cant look at him objectively.

So, would you say I'm wrong in saying Ryan is a terrible skater who constantly shows up to training camp out of shape?

 

[Cloud]

So, would you say I'm wrong in saying Ryan is a terrible skater who constantly shows up to training camp out of shape?

and just think...next year Bobby may be our best and most experienced forward left on the team...perhaps they'll even make him captain.

 

[Stylizer1]

We all laughed at Burke when he said Ryan didn't know how to spell intensity, but he was right. Ryan was never a player who brings his A game night in night out. He even said so him self something along the lines that he needs to make plays happen instead of waiting for them to appear this season. On a good team if gets 5o-55 points and shows up during a playoff drive then cool but he never showed up when this team needed him too except for that 1 playoff run. Ryan was never a reason to point out why we were doing well. Every run we made was without him.

Duchene on the other hand is a player full of energy and determination. I've seen Ryan practice on 2 seperate occasions and the guy couldn't have looked more disinterested. He looks like a guy who doesn't love playing hockey but can get by with just enough effort to stay in the line up.

 

[Stylizer1]

Even though we traded away our top forwards Ryan is still on the 3rd line. lol

 

[otown]

Recent TSN article quoting Ryan giving some sage advice to the young players on the squad.

"I think there were times where we had eight or nine guys that had played under 40 NHL games and they looked a little wide-eyed with everything going around them,” Ryan said. “You just try to talk to them. For me, I just went up to them quietly and talked to each individual guy and said, ‘You’re never gonna see something like this again so just kind of weather the storm. Worry about what you can control, which is the way you approach tonight, approach tomorrow’s practice and go from there.’”

Never going to see something like this again!!! One doesn't know in Sens land! Good advice though.........
"weather the storm" or should it be "storms"!

 

[Silencio]

Recent TSN article quoting Ryan giving some sage advice to the young players on the squad.

"I think there were times where we had eight or nine guys that had played under 40 NHL games and they looked a little wide-eyed with everything going around them,” Ryan said. “You just try to talk to them. For me, I just went up to them quietly and talked to each individual guy and said, ‘You’re never gonna see something like this again so just kind of weather the storm. Worry about what you can control, which is the way you approach tonight, approach tomorrow’s practice and go from there.’”

Never going to see something like this again!!! One doesn't know in Sens land! Good advice though.........
"weather the storm" or should it be "storms"!

I actually wouldn't mind giving Ryan a shot at the captaincy next season. Hell he's already getting paid like one.

 

[Engineer]

Ryan said the uncertainty around the trade deadline took a toll on the team and specifically cited the experience of Dzingel, who was traded to the Columbus Blue Jackets two days before the deadline.
“I think every time his phone rang he was lighting up to see who it was and what was going on,” Ryan said

"lighted up" every time he thought he was traded.

Goes to show how much the players want out.

 

[BonkTastic]

I actually wouldn't mind giving Ryan a shot at the captaincy next season.

There isn't even a snowball's chance in hell he's even considered for the captaincy, IMO.

 

[swiftwin]

"lighted up" every time he thought he was traded.

Goes to show how much the players want out.

Lol..... Cmon man.... You know he means lighted up in a nervous way. Getting traded is a huge deal, any player would get nervous on any team.

 

[Engineer]

Lol..... Cmon man.... You know he means lighted up in a nervous way. Getting traded is a huge deal, any player would get nervous on any team.

What any player would look forward to is getting traded from a bottom feeder to a contender.

 

[Tuna99]

Bobby Ryan going to finish the season with 15 goals.

His average over the last 3 seasons is 13 goals a year.

Sens need to move on, even if they have to eat salary. He’s done.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Bobby Ryan going to finish the season with 15 goals.

His average over the last 3 seasons is 13 goals a year.

Sens need to move on, even if they have to eat salary. He’s done.

I think this season has been a step forward for Ryan on the basis that he has remained healthy and played a majority of the season.

A buyout saves no money for Ottawa due to his signing bonuses and the cost of a replacement player. If we are actually aiming to compete in 2021, it makes more sense keep Ryan on the books now when we have so little money committed rather than spread his money out over 6 years.

There's also the prospect of a lockout. While he has a 2M signing bonus that he'll be paid, if there is a full or half season lockout, we don't pay him up to 5.5 of his remaining 22.5 million. If we buy him out, we miss that opportunity.

I have gotten some grief from other posters this previous off season for saying that I don't think a team would take Ryan for free at half retained. I still think that's the case. While this season has been a plus for him staying healthy, I think he'd need either higher production, or a longer streak of healthy okay before a team would risk Ryan at 3 years at almost 4 million per season in cap.

The only solution might be to find a Phaneuf/Gaborik type deal. We retain and take back some bad contracts that have high cap but low money owed due to insurance. I am guessing when Dorion acquired Gaborik, he knew Gaborik would "fail" his physical the next season.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Ya we're going to have wait it out with Bobby through the rebuild. At least he hasn't completely fallen off a cliff like Lucic. A very soft player though that does way to many flybys on the ice.

 

[aragorn]

His struggles aren't all injury related. His hands have nothing to do with him being as soft as a pillow and having some of the worst balance you'll see on a pro. His conditioning is terrible. Dude is weak and it shows every year. He gets blown over by a soft breeze.

Were you not one of those who wanted Ott to trade for him when they were losing Alfredsson? If I remember correctly a good portion of this board were on board to bring Ryan to Ott & re-sign him to the long term contract at the time.

 

[Xspyrit]

Everyone knows the number of goals doesn't matter for a non-goal scorer. Marner has "only" 26 goals despite 93 points; Wheeler has 20 goals but 90 points; Giroux 22 goals 83 points, Kuznetsov ad Malkin 21 goals 72 points, Krejci 19 goals 71 points, Johansen 14 goals 64 points, the list goes on.

Are fans looking at their season saying it's disappointing as they only have x number of goals? No, they're not that clueless.

Ryan has 41 pts this season, missed 5 games (if he's missing tonight). 131 forwards have more than 41 points, which means it's still 2nd line production. You wish he was producing more or be paid less, but everyone knows he's overpaid, but he's far from being alone. Let's also note that he played mostly on the last place team 3rd line and that he is 178th in TOI/GP among forwards. Very far from being disastrous the way his haters will try to sell you.

I think this season has been a step forward for Ryan on the basis that he has remained healthy and played a majority of the season.

A buyout saves no money for Ottawa due to his signing bonuses and the cost of a replacement player. If we are actually aiming to compete in 2021, it makes more sense keep Ryan on the books now when we have so little money committed rather than spread his money out over 6 years.

There's also the prospect of a lockout. While he has a 2M signing bonus that he'll be paid, if there is a full or half season lockout, we don't pay him up to 5.5 of his remaining 22.5 million. If we buy him out, we miss that opportunity.

I have gotten some grief from other posters this previous off season for saying that I don't think a team would take Ryan for free at half retained. I still think that's the case. While this season has been a plus for him staying healthy, I think he'd need either higher production, or a longer streak of healthy okay before a team would risk Ryan at 3 years at almost 4 million per season in cap.

The only solution might be to find a Phaneuf/Gaborik type deal. We retain and take back some bad contracts that have high cap but low money owed due to insurance. I am guessing when Dorion acquired Gaborik, he knew Gaborik would "fail" his physical the next season.

If you think that teams can't do worse than 3 years x 3.625 for a 0.53 PPG forward (exact same production the last 2 seasons) on the UFA market, then it's your opinion. Many teams could have used an additional ~45 pts forward.

You told me last summer that it was in large part because he was missing a lot of games. Well, he only missed 5 this year and only Paajarvi and Tierney will have played more on the Sens.

3.625 (50% of his cap) is NOT a huge salary in today's NHL. This year, 165 forwards have made more and that's only because many ELCs and RFAs forwards are a "bargain" for now. Next year, already 149 forwards will make more than that, but there will be quite a lot more with the signings in the off-season. Funny because that's the same number (149) of forwards who have scored more points in the last 2 years combined (74 pts) and Ryan missed 25 games.

The Sens would never do that though, paying Ryan 3.625 M$ per year to see him produce 50 pts on another team because he was well on his way to do it before the deadline firesale. They're stupid, but not that stupid.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Everyone knows the number of goals doesn't matter for a non-goal scorer. Marner has "only" 26 goals despite 93 points; Wheeler has 20 goals but 90 points; Giroux 22 goals 83 points, Kuznetsov ad Malkin 21 goals 72 points, Krejci 19 goals 71 points, Johansen 14 goals 64 points, the list goes on.

Are fans looking at their season saying it's disappointing as they only have x number of goals? No, they're not that clueless.

Ryan has 41 pts this season, missed 5 games (if he's missing tonight). 131 forwards have more than 41 points, which means it's still 2nd line production. You wish he was producing more or be paid less, but everyone knows he's overpaid, but he's far from being alone. Let's also note that he played mostly on the last place team 3rd line and that he is 178th in TOI/GP among forwards. Very far from being disastrous the way his haters will try to sell you.



If you think that teams can't do worse than 3 years x 3.625 for a 0.53 PPG forward (exact same production the last 2 seasons) on the UFA market, then it's your opinion. Many teams could have used an additional ~45 pts forward.

You told me last summer that it was in large part because he was missing a lot of games. Well, he only missed 5 this year and only Paajarvi and Tierney will have played more on the Sens.

3.625 (50% of his cap) is NOT a huge salary in today's NHL. This year, 165 forwards have made more and that's only because many ELCs and RFAs forwards are a "bargain" for now. Next year, already 149 forwards will make more than that, but there will be quite a lot more with the signings in the off-season. Funny because that's the same number (149) of forwards who have scored more points in the last 2 years combined (74 pts) and Ryan missed 25 games.

The Sens would never do that though, paying Ryan 3.625 M$ per year to see him produce 50 pts on another team because he was well on his way to do it before the deadline firesale. They're stupid, but not that stupid.

Great post. Ryan gets such a bad rap. He isn't Daniel alfredsson, and he isn't even the Bobby Ryan he was when he came to Ottawa.

Hand injuries have made him change his game from a shoot first goal scorer to more of a set up guy yet he still puts up decent 2nd line production. If you just watch him play you can tell he's lost all confidence in his shot.

He isn't worth his contract, and he always leaves you wanting more. But he's still a decent player, and his contract isn't an issue since he's on a cap floor team.

By all accounts he has a good attitude and is well liked. He's not a detriment to the team and any trade to get rid of him wouldn't make sense.

He's here to stay. People better get used to it

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Everyone knows the number of goals doesn't matter for a non-goal scorer. Marner has "only" 26 goals despite 93 points; Wheeler has 20 goals but 90 points; Giroux 22 goals 83 points, Kuznetsov ad Malkin 21 goals 72 points, Krejci 19 goals 71 points, Johansen 14 goals 64 points, the list goes on.

Are fans looking at their season saying it's disappointing as they only have x number of goals? No, they're not that clueless.

Ryan has 41 pts this season, missed 5 games (if he's missing tonight). 131 forwards have more than 41 points, which means it's still 2nd line production. You wish he was producing more or be paid less, but everyone knows he's overpaid, but he's far from being alone. Let's also note that he played mostly on the last place team 3rd line and that he is 178th in TOI/GP among forwards. Very far from being disastrous the way his haters will try to sell you.



If you think that teams can't do worse than 3 years x 3.625 for a 0.53 PPG forward (exact same production the last 2 seasons) on the UFA market, then it's your opinion. Many teams could have used an additional ~45 pts forward.

You told me last summer that it was in large part because he was missing a lot of games. Well, he only missed 5 this year and only Paajarvi and Tierney will have played more on the Sens.

3.625 (50% of his cap) is NOT a huge salary in today's NHL. This year, 165 forwards have made more and that's only because many ELCs and RFAs forwards are a "bargain" for now. Next year, already 149 forwards will make more than that, but there will be quite a lot more with the signings in the off-season. Funny because that's the same number (149) of forwards who have scored more points in the last 2 years combined (74 pts) and Ryan missed 25 games.

The Sens would never do that though, paying Ryan 3.625 M$ per year to see him produce 50 pts on another team because he was well on his way to do it before the deadline firesale. They're stupid, but not that stupid.

Ryan has not scored 50 points in years.

Term is just as big of an issue as AAV. Look at the risk reward proposition. Even if 3.625M is market value for a 40 point middle 6 winger, is the risk of devoting that cap for the next three seasons to a winger who is 32 years old with a significant injury history worth it to gain that kind of player? No.

Lastly, why is Ryan still here if someone would take him half retained? Look at the hurdles the Senators jumped through to basically give away Phaneuf for nothing in a deal where if you work out the retained salary, Gaborik's insured salary, and the cost of a replacement body on the roster is close to half retained.

If a team was willing to take Ryan half retained, why isn't it done by now? Surely last off season, the Senators would have loved to save 15 million dollars for a declining player who is not in their long term plans. I don't think it makes any sense to believe the Senators would be upset to see Ryan go and play in the middle 6 of another team while they pay half his salary, because that scenario involves them NOT having to pay half his salary. In terms of saving money, that would be a best case scenario for them at this point, so the fact that a half retained trade hasn't happened probably means nobody would do it.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Great post. Ryan gets such a bad rap. He isn't Daniel alfredsson, and he isn't even the Bobby Ryan he was when he came to Ottawa.

Hand injuries have made him change his game from a shoot first goal scorer to more of a set up guy yet he still puts up decent 2nd line production. If you just watch him play you can tell he's lost all confidence in his shot.

He isn't worth his contract, and he always leaves you wanting more. But he's still a decent player, and his contract isn't an issue since he's on a cap floor team.

By all accounts he has a good attitude and is well liked. He's not a detriment to the team and any trade to get rid of him wouldn't make sense.

He's here to stay. People better get used to it

That has nothing to do with being discussed.

In terms of personality, he's one of my favourite Senators of the last however many years, that doesn't change the fact that he's declining, and the previous actions of this team make it very easy to speculate that they'd probably value saving half of his 22.5M ticket if that opportunity came up.

Ask yourself this, would the Senators sign Bobby Ryan to a 3 year 3.625M contract extension if he was a UFA this season? The answer to that is probably no. If the answer is no, then it is illogical to assume that they would pass on the opportunity to deal him half retained.

This is because in terms of the cost analysis (since we're never getting rid of the full hit and it is a sunk cost) choosing to not trade Ryan half retained is the same thing as choosing to sign him to a 3 year 3.625M extension.

It makes absolutely no sense to assume the Senators wouldn't move him half retained if given the opportunity. (They did something very similar with Phaneuf when all the different sources of money is accounted for, so there's precedent that they'd do it if it is in their best interests money wise.)

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

That has nothing to do with being discussed.

In terms of personality, he's one of my favourite Senators of the last however many years, that doesn't change the fact that he's declining, and the previous actions of this team make it very easy to speculate that they'd probably value saving half of his 22.5M ticket if that opportunity came up.

Ask yourself this, would the Senators sign Bobby Ryan to a 3 year 3.625M contract extension if he was a UFA this season? The answer to that is probably no. If the answer is no, then it is illogical to assume that they would pass on the opportunity to deal him half retained.

This is because in terms of the cost analysis (since we're never getting rid of the full hit and it is a sunk cost) choosing to not trade Ryan half retained is the same thing as choosing to sign him to a 3 year 3.625M extension.

It makes absolutely no sense to assume the Senators wouldn't move him half retained if given the opportunity. (They did something very similar with Phaneuf when all the different sources of money is accounted for, so there's precedent that they'd do it if it is in their best interests money wise.)

And the phaneuf trade was bad. Done purely to put gaborik on ltir and save real money.

As far as a trade to improve the team, there is no realistic option to trade Ryan can accomplish that. They'd have to retain and or take a cap dump. So they're left with Ryan's salary, plus a lesser player for a guy that can still put up points.

They need vets on that team. And Ryan is one. Just overpaid.