Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VII

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by DrunkUncleDenis, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. SadEugeneOregonDonor

    SadEugeneOregonDonor Registered User

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    He was awesome last game... could have had easily had 3 points... he is looking like his 2013-2016 self

    Hopefully he can keep this up.... I didn't see any hope for Bobby with the Sens... too much resentment... but his play lately has been good enough that I think there is hope for him to play out his contract with us and not be hated by a large portion of the fanbase for doing so... of course there will always be people who blame him for his contract but at the end of the day if he continues to be an impact player I believe most people will be able to see past it
     
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  2. armani

    armani Guy Likes

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    Ryan has been solid and I hope he continues to a point of generating some interest where he can be dealth after cap retention (a la Phaneuf). The NHL is still very much "what have you done lately" kinda league, if the Sens had astute ownership and management they would have found a way by now.
     
  3. PoutineSp00nZ

    PoutineSp00nZ Electricity is really just organized lightning.

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    [QDP]

    I think with Ryan it's more about confidence than pride.

    It makes sense. Guy keeps breaking fingers on his primary hand ... Can't feel the puck the same, can't shoot the puck the same. The main element of hos game has changed in a huge way.

    Add to his already shaky confidence ... He struggles at times .but when he gets on a roll he's awesome.

    Just my opinion, I don't know the guy lol
     
    Last edited by moderator Variable26: Jan 19, 2019
  4. Icelevel

    Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    I was talking about chiasson no?
     
  5. Mathieu

    Mathieu Registered User

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    Knowing Ryan's luck it's about time he breaks one of his finger and miss an extended period of time.

    Poor guy, every time he gets on a roll he gets injured.
     
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  6. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    Well I don’t know what’s inside your head; it’s Bobby Ryan’s thread and you didn’t quote anything or specified who you were talking about. It was natural to assume that he = Ryan

    Anyway, doesn’t matter, it allowed me to throw that info in that angle
     
  7. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    Wanted to add this :

    I took a look at Forwards and where they ranked in PTS/GP (minimum 41 GP) and total PTS. I added what kind of production on average it translates to, with the fact that there is 30/31 teams in mind

    2008-09 : 35th (1st line production), 70th
    2009-10 : 52nd (1st line production), 43rd
    2010-11 : 31st (1st line production), 21st
    2011-12 : 84th (1st line production), 63rd
    2012-13 : 71st (1st line production), 82nd
    2013-14 : 77th (1st line production), 89th
    2014-15 : 67th (1st line production), 65th
    2015-16 : 69th (1st line production), 53rd
    2016-17 : 200th (3rd line production), 223rd
    2017-18 : 152nd (2nd line production), 187th
    2018-19 : 101st (2nd line production), 101st
     
  8. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    Bobby Ryan = 12 Goals
    Alex Chiasson = 17 Goals
     
  9. danielpalfredsson

    danielpalfredsson why you zaitsev to be mad its only a trade

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    Points per games played ignores the major issue Ryan has faced over the last few seasons, in that prior to this season he went two seasons playing through or missing games because of injuries a majority of the time. No team cares if a guy has 2nd line P/PG numbers if that only translates into seasons of 25 and 33 points because the player is hurt for a quarter of each season.

    It also ignores another major issue during Ryan's tenure in Ottawa, that for multiple seasons he has been near elite for the first half of the season, and then completely drops off down the stretch. I'm not motivated to go back and look, but I am fairly certain at least his first 2-3 seasons in Ottawa this trend proved to be true.

    Ryan is a good player when healthy, and when his conditioning holds up, which is usually the first half of the season. He was good for us in the playoff run because his hand injuries allowed him time off to address his conditioning, this is something Ryan himself admitted in an interview.

    This season has been a fantastic accomplishment for Ryan so far. He's gotten hotter as the season has gone on, and has not missed any major time due to injuries. Still, I don't get the point of obscuring the context of the numbers to make it look like having Ryan has=having a reliable 2nd line forward because it hasn't at least not for two of the previous three seasons.
     
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  10. danielpalfredsson

    danielpalfredsson why you zaitsev to be mad its only a trade

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    By the scientifically accurate Alex Chiasson McDavid goal scoring ratio, Ryan would be a 99 goal scorer in the same situation.
     
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  11. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    Maybe Edmonton trades for him?
     
  12. Smeddy

    Smeddy Intangibles

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    Chiasson could have 50 goals right now and I would still be glad he's no longer on this team.
     
  13. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    Well, I didn't necessarily want to trigger a discussion, just wanted to add those facts in this thread because that's where I keep them.

    Overall, since in Ottawa, Bobby Ryan played 405 of the 465 games (87%) he could have played with the Sens (plus didn't miss any of the 25 in the playoffs)

    It's relatively identical as Mark Stone since he is a regular on the team in 2014-15, as he played 339 out the 383 possible games (88%)

    Of course, the 2 seasons prior were difficult because of those constant injuries but last year was not even that bad with 33 pts in 62 games. Those 20 games missed should normally gave an opportunity to a player that is a bit buried in depth or a young player trying to make his mark (call-ups).

    That being said, PTS/GP is important because it gives a better idea of the production level of a player rather than just stupidly saying "player Z has more points so he is better". I know not everyone would say that, but yes you can read a lot of stupid stuff on the internet. It also gives you an indication that a player could still produce when healthy, like I have been saying the last 2 years and I got ridiculed so many times for that, somebody even "questioned my intelligence" as I used a lot of data (even advanced stats) to demonstrate that Ryan was not total garbage" or other insults many threw at him. lol that post got unfortunately deleted but no worries as it came from a poster that is evidently not the smartest peanut in the turd.

    Anyway, like I said there was no "point of obscuring the context of the numbers", I'm just gathering all the data I have here.

    But what you said is strange though. Mark Stone had 62 pts in 58 pts last year, so he was not an reliable elite forward because he missed game? Because 62 pts is lower 1st line numbers or excellent 2nd line numbers. So was Mark Stone, who was over PPG, just a decent 1st liner last year?

    I don't get that logic. Nobody controls games missed.

    Man are you for real? Or is this a bot keeping you updated? lol

    Ryan = 33 pts
    Chiasson = 27 pts

    Ryan 15:47 TOI/GP mostly with Duchene, Dzingel, Boedker and Tierney (also Smith and Formenton)
    Chiasson 16:35 TOI/GP mostly with McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Rieder

    Chiasson has more goals than Claude Giroux, Radulov, Voracek, Backstrom and Malkin, hence he must be better! :dunce:
     
  14. JD1

    JD1 Registered User

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    the root of the second half fall off in year 1 was sports hernia surgery, specifically delaying it while trying to olay thru it. In year 2 it was attributing to conditioning related to not being able to train because of the sports hernia surgery
     
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  15. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    I made a bet Chiasson would have more goals this year then Ryan, and so far so good.

    And if this is Ryan having a good season and he’s on pace for 18 goals, god help us.
     
  16. bert

    bert Registered User

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    If you think these are comparable players youre lost. Chiasson is playing on a line with connor mcdavid and only has like 8 assists. He is terrible. Never seen a guy go offside so much he has no hockey sense and for an nhl hockey player is on the very low end for skill. He has been on something like 5 teams in 3 years. NHL GM's dont like him the only place he has stuck is the only team that might be worse run organization in the NHL than the sens. Ryan has more points and doesnt play with the best player on the planet.
     
  17. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    Ryan’s really been great the last two seasons , he’s been the 7th best forward on the worst team in the NHL
     
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  18. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    God, how many times do you need to be explained that Ryan is NOT a goal scorer?

    Nicklas Backstrom is on pace for ~20 goals. God help the Caps!

    Please stop with the non-sense. Ryan on pace for ~20 goals, ~35 assists is a good thing, excellent 2nd line numbers. 2-3 years ago, it still was low 1st line numbers.

    And you don't need to keep everyone updated about your personal bet. I don't know when you made the bet exactly, but if it was BEFORE Chiasson sticking to McDavid's wing, you should play the lotto.

    5th best PPG among Sens forwards last year (behind Stone, Duchene, Hoffman and Brassard), and 5th best so far this year (behind Stone, Duchene, Dzingel and Tierney). Nothing to be ashamed of. Stone, Duchene and even Hoffman are pretty high end, Dzingel is having a major breakout this year, Tierney has some sort of breakout too because he has a much bigger opportunity than he ever had. Brassard was a 60 pts center not long ago and had a season over a 50 pts pace last year.

    Other facts :

    - 4th best PPG among Sens forwards in 2013-14 (0.69 PPG)
    - 3rd best PPG among Sens forwards in 2014-15 (0.69 PPG)
    - 3rd best PPG among Sens forwards in 2015-16 (0.69 PPG)
    - 3rd in Sens scoring since 2013-14 (behind Karlsson and Stone)
    - overall, 5th best PPG (0.61) among forwards (behind Duchene, Stone, Turris and Hoffman) since 2013-14

    It's crazy how haters always try to spin everything to feed the hatred. Ridiculous way of living.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  19. bert

    bert Registered User

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    Atleast he can stick on a team.

    How do you explain Chiasson being on the same line as Mcdavid and has less points than Ryan.

    Mcdavid has like 15 bank shots off chiasson this season he has done nothing.
     
  20. topshelf15

    topshelf15 Registered User

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    I still think Ryan is a good player,its the injuries that have been the root cause of his inconsistent play...
     
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  21. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    Ryan sticks to this team because no one wants him. Expansion, EK trade - they are trying to get rid of him but they can’t.
     
  22. BondraTime

    BondraTime Registered User

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    No one wants his salary, the player would be a guy used on pretty much every team.

    Take the salaries away from both Chaisson and Ryan and there isn't a GM in the league who'd rather Chiasson, and if there is, that team is in trouble
     
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  23. Burrowsaurus

    Burrowsaurus Registered User

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    peope quickly forget the lifeless shell of a player Chiasson was here.

    we somehow only got sieloff for him though which was a little odd regardless
     
  24. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    Maybe he gets moved, he’s playing like he wants out. Ottawa can retain salary (like Phaneuf) and if the return is decent I’d say they’d trade Ryan at the deadline.

    And Chiasson vs Ryan - who knows what a GM wants.

    I think with Ryan’s lack of work ethic, his obvious inability to use the English Alphabet that Burke talked about I think there would be lots of GMs who’d stay away, talent is there but the attitude and work ethic would be a non starter for some clubs.
     
  25. Xspyrit

    Xspyrit Registered User

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    Yeah, what I have been saying all the way, and Ryan is far from the only player that has been affected by injuries.

    Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

    If you look at that list of forwards over 28 y/o (sorted by highest cap hit), you will find that the vast majority of them had down years on their path, due to injuries or other reasons. And some of them are paid a good chunk more than Ryan.

    - Ovechkin had 65 pts in 2011-12 and 69 points in 2016-17. Good totals but really not as his usual elite level
    - Kopitar had 64 pts in 2014-15 and 52 pts in 2016-17
    - Patrick Kane had 66 pts in 2011-12
    - Toews had 58, 58 and then 52 pts from 2015-16 to 2017-18, and not because he missed many games.
    - Parise went from 62 pts to 53 to 42 to 24 pts in the last few years (due to injuries too) and is having a resurgence this season.
    - Kessel took a while to really breakout, and after he did, he had 59 and 61 pts seasons.
    - Getzlaf had a 57 pts season in 2011-12 and 63 pts in 2015-16. His pace this year is just slightly better than Ryan
    - Giroux went from 86 to 73 to 67 to 58 pts from 2013-14 to 2016-17 and bounced back last year with 102 pts
    - Perry? 60 pts in 2011-12, 62 pts in 2015-16 then 53 pts in 2016-17 and 49 pts last year. 1 pt in 5 games this year.
    - Jamie Benn has a 70 PPG so far this season and has 6 years left at 9.5 per
    - Malkin had several injury plague seasons where he missed a good chunk of games.
    - RoR makes 7.5 per and had seasons as follow in the NHL : 26, 26, 55, (20), 64, 55, 60, 55, 61
    - Spezza since traded : 62, 63, 50, 26 and 22 pts in 53 games this season (0.41) while garbage overpaid (Sens board TM) player Zack Smith has 0.46 PPG
    Krejci : underwhelming point totals may seasons, so many games missed too
    JVR : look at his numbers, and he just got signed at 70 per
    Kesler : has 20 pts in 92 games (last year + this season)
    Bergeron : several 50-60 pts seasons, lot of injury trouble
    Voracek : took a while to breakout and still has been inconsistent in terms of production afterwards
    Stamkos : always been elite but a bit of injury trouble

    I basically named each of the 23 first players on the list, except Crosby (who had injury troubles but always was over PPG), Tavares and Backstrom who has been a model of consistency (most under the radar superstar of the league IMO)

    Conclusion : Highly paid veteran forwards have almost all big bumps on the way, many of them have certainly been criticized but I doubt they have been rolled in the mud like Ryan, who may deserves criticism, but not the kind of bashing treatment he got. Really shows how much the Internet is ******ed.
     

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