Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VII

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robsenz

Registered User
Apr 15, 2007
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It seems unfair that Bobby has to grind it out on the 3rd line. Why can't he play with Duchene and Dzingel? I can't remember what his chemistry with Duchene is like off the top of my head... Have they ever had any success?

Realistically, probably because he can't play at their level of speed.
 
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Icelevel

During these difficult times...
Sep 9, 2009
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People saying bobby has never looked better in the regular season (heard this on 1200. Mendes?)

He’s playing great but not close to level he was at with Mac and Turris. People quickly forget. They dominated.
 

Que

What?
Feb 12, 2017
2,236
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Mind Prison
People saying bobby has never looked better in the regular season (heard this on 1200. Mendes?)

He’s playing great but not close to level he was at with Mac and Turris. People quickly forget. They dominated.

I always thought Bobby and JGP had the best chemistry. I remember them playing with both Smith and Mac. It was so fun to watch.
 

alfstheman

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
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Ryan is on the power play because we have an inexperienced team at the moment. No way a contender takes a chance on Ryan by next years deadline or even the year after. On his final year sure. To big of a cap hit regardless of how much money Ottawa retains.

Not sure if you've watched the games but Ryan has been very good on the PP this year, seems to make good passes and draws players in. Most teams would have him on at least their 2nd pp line.
 

Answer

Registered User
Dec 17, 2006
6,962
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I always thought Bobby and JGP had the best chemistry. I remember them playing with both Smith and Mac. It was so fun to watch.

Well once JGP is back and in game mode, where do we slot him in the lineup?

One of Tierney or Pageau has to center the 4th line.. or

Tierney - Pageau - Ryan ?
Boedker - Smith - Pyatt
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
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People saying bobby has never looked better in the regular season (heard this on 1200. Mendes?)

He’s playing great but not close to level he was at with Mac and Turris. People quickly forget. They dominated.

He looked like a legit star in the first half of his first season here prior to getting hurt and eventually getting shut down. Don't quote me on this, but I think he was playing at a 35-40 goal/70 point pace.

I'm not saying he lived up to his extension early on, but it wasn't really until the hand injuries of the previous two seasons that he really became an albatross.

All I want to see this season from him is a strong 82 games where he doesn't get hurt and doesn't drop off during the second half. I am not even all that concerned about production since that's never really been the issue since we all accepted he isn't going to produce like he did as a Duck. The issue is that the guy has had 50 point paces, bit because he gets hurt so much he is really only good for 25-35 points.

His season so far has been a big positive.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
yeah maybe you shouldn't take too seriously someone who says the only thing Ryan did in Ottawa was the 2017 playoffs. Clear agenda is clear. Or heck, maybe watching games would help.

Also, I don't understand why some say there is a Ryan who cares and one who doesn't.

I don't think people realize :

1- how hard it is to produce in the NHL
2- how hard it is to play through injuries

2013-14 : 70 Games, 0.69 PPG
2014-15 : 78 Games, 0.69 PPG

2014-15 Playoffs : 2 Goals, 0 Assist in 6 Games (small sample size in a low scoring series, 24 goals total in 6 games + 12 OT mins)
2015-16 : 81 Games, 0.69 PPG
2016-17 : 62 Games, 0.40 PPG
2016-17 Playoffs : 6 Goals, 9 Assists in 19 Games, 0.79 PPG
2017-18 : 62 Games, 0.53 PPG
2018-19 : 18 Games, 0.67 PPG

The highlighted is when Bobby Ryan was healthy or "not too injured" (in red, it's his 2 injury-plagued seasons). By looking at NHL forward stats, you realize that a 0.69 PPG is lower-end first line production. Among forwards who played at least 100 Games since 2013-14 (523 in Total), only 78 have produced at over a 0.70 clip...

NHL.com - Stats

Even that 2017-18 season production (0.53 PPG) was not that bad, only 164 forwards have maintained a pace over 0.54 PPG since 2013-14 (again, forwards who played at least 100 games, 523 in Total). That's still lower end 2nd line production (Silfverberg's PPG with Anaheim is 0.52 in 386 Games)

Ryan was always going to be overpaid, but that was the price to pay to be able to retain him in Ottawa as he could have just walked to the UFA market and get close to that 7.25 AAV. With a tough winter and heavy taxes in a smaller Canadian market, that's what Ottawa has to do to keep those highly priced vets (it would be the same for Duchene and Stone this year)

Conclusion, Ryan doesn't deserve half of the bashing he got here in Ottawa. His only way supbar season was 2016-17, where he had a very tough off-season losing his mother from cancer (went through that) and had his first born child (going through that for the 3rd time). Then he saw his TOI/GP cut by almost 2 mins under an ultra defensive new coach (1st year Boucher) where several players had trouble adjusting and saw their numbers dip (bet example is Brassard, going from back-to-back ~60 pts seasons in New York to 39 pts in Ottawa). Also, team PP was really unproductive for years (until this year so far) so it's not like players would have a good PP to help them produce. Based on all that, I think Ryan deserves a mulligan for that 2016-17 season, particularly with the way he redeemed himself in the playoffs.

So yeah, Ryan hasn't been "complete utter garbage trash" in Ottawa, not even close. He has been overpaid, sometimes more than not, but still can contribute to a hockey team.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
I know my "intelligence" is going to be questioned again because I'm using stats to defend Ryan, but still going for it!

Really tho? If Ryan continues this play all season (doubtful but you never know) and plays well next season I could see a contender take a chance next deadline if Ottawa retains.

Phaneuf is a 7 mill bottom pair D, Ryan is a 7 mill pp specialist who is playing like a decent 2nd liner atm.

Also as we all know too well, leading the team in hits doesnt make you a good defenseman...

98th most points among NHL forwards since joining the Sens in 2013-14 (86th most Even Strength points), 228 points total, 54 pts came on the PP, which is 23.68%

Let's compare with other players :

Sens/ex Sens :

Mark Stone : 62/269 = 23.05%
Kyle Turris : 79/272 = 29.04%
Derick Brassard : 72/253 = 28.46%
Mike Hoffman : 72/245 = 29.39%
Nick Foligno : 72/244 = 29.51%
Mika Zibanejad : 70/229 = 30.57%
Matt Duchene : 64/303 = 21.12%
Jason Spezza : 106/278 = 38.13%

Random forwards :

Sidney Crosby : 162/470 = 34.47%
Patrick Kane : 135/427 = 31.62%
Claude Giroux : 175/408 = 42.89%
Alex Ovechkin : 164/407 = 40.29%
Nicklas Backstrom : 179/404 = 44.31%
Wayne Simmonds : 114/280 = 40.71%
Patric Hornqvist : 87/255 = 34.12%
Alex Galchenyuk : 81/236 = 34.32%
James Neal : 66/245 = 26.94%
Radim Vrbata : 72/210 = 34.29%

18-20% of goals are scored on the PP since 2013-14, and most of the time for each goals, 3 points are recorded... so yeah I don't think Ryan has been anything close to a PP specialist. Only this year so far he has 6 PPPs on 12 points total.

Yeah that's not true at all. You actually believe if Ottawa retained 50%, that he wouldn't have value at 3.625?

There's plenty of teams who don't seem to have a lot of scoring depth after their 3-4 big forwards. If we really wanted to trade Ryan, a combination of salary retaining and taking back a smaller bad contract would do it. Or pretty sure the Islanders would love to trade Ryan (3 years left, 22.5 M$ owed) for Ladd (4 years left, 19 M$ owed), or the Oilers Lucic (4 years left, 19 M$ owed) for Ryan, just to name a few examples. Doubt the Sens would be interested though. There's plenty of worse contracts than Ryan, who can still give you good runs of play or amazing playoffs, even if overpaid.

Well once JGP is back and in game mode, where do we slot him in the lineup?

One of Tierney or Pageau has to center the 4th line.. or

Tierney - Pageau - Ryan ?
Boedker - Smith - Pyatt

Assuming Batherson succeeds and stays in the line-up

Ryan-Duchene-Batherson
Tkachuk-White-Stone
Dzingel-Tierney-Boedker
Smith-Pageau-Paul
Paajarvi

Or you can switch Ryan and Dzingel

Thank you Pyatt and McCormick, your services are not needed anymore (AHL until traded, waived or just let go?)

Really like that forward group, easily playoff caliber. If only defense and goaltending could get better.

He looked like a legit star in the first half of his first season here prior to getting hurt and eventually getting shut down. Don't quote me on this, but I think he was playing at a 35-40 goal/70 point pace.

I'm not saying he lived up to his extension early on, but it wasn't really until the hand injuries of the previous two seasons that he really became an albatross.

All I want to see this season from him is a strong 82 games where he doesn't get hurt and doesn't drop off during the second half. I am not even all that concerned about production since that's never really been the issue since we all accepted he isn't going to produce like he did as a Duck. The issue is that the guy has had 50 point paces, bit because he gets hurt so much he is really only good for 25-35 points.

I did that work so just a copy/paste :

2013-14 :

To start the season : 42 GP, 18 Goals, 18 Assists, 36 Points, +10 (0.86 PPG = 70 pts per 82 games)

Rest of the way : 28 GP, 5 Goals, 7 Assists, 12 Points, -3 (then shutdown for the rest of the season, after hernia)

2014-15 :

To start the season : 60 GP, 17 Goals, 32 Assists, 49 Points, +9 (0.82 PPG = 67 pts per 82 games)

Rest of the way (2 injuries that season) : 18 GP, 1 Goals, 4 Assists, 5 Points, -4

2015-16 :

To start the season : 52 GP, 19 Goals, 26 Assists, 45 Points, -1 (0.87 PPG = 71 pts per 82 games)

Rest of the way (2 injuries that season) : 29 GP, 3 Goals, 8 Assists, 11 Points, -8

2016-17 :

To start the season : 8 GP, 3 Goals, 2 Assists, 5 Points, +1

Rest of the way (5 injuries that season) : 54 GP, 10 Goals, 10 Assists, 20 Points, -4​


Yeah, it was not only in his first season, first 60 games of 2014-15 and first 52 games of 2015-16 were very good too, if not better.

I would say he "lived up" to his contract in the 1st year based on salary

2013-14 : $5,562,500
2014-15 : $5,562,500
2015-16 : $6,500,000 (new contract)
2016-17 : $7,250,000
2017-18 : $7,500,000, etc

7.25 in 2016-17 was heavy but even if he had a poor season, he earned his money with monster playoffs.

Finally, concerning the "we all accepted he isn't going to produce like he did as a Duck", it depends how you saw this because he produced similarly in his last 2 years there :

2011-12 : 82 Games, 0.70 PPG
2012-13 : 46 Games, 0.65 PPG
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,471
8,996
I think a Dzingel - Tierny - Ryan 2nd line would be good. I'm not a big Boedker fan, he had a good start but too inconsistent & if he is producing he doesn't look like he isn't doing anything else. I would prefer Smith with Duchene & Stone, Smith plays well when he is on a line with Stone & produces pts.

Smith - Duchene - Stone
Dzingel - Tierny - Ryan
Tkachuk - White - Batherson - a kid line would be exciting to watch but GB will never go for it.
4th line???? I'd go with Paul - Brown - Rodewald after the deadline, next yr Formenton replaces Rodewald to add some speed to that 4th line.
 

devbouz12

Eugene's dad
Jan 15, 2012
2,106
1,409
I think a Dzingel - Tierny - Ryan 2nd line would be good. I'm not a big Boedker fan, he had a good start but too inconsistent & if he is producing he doesn't look like he isn't doing anything else. I would prefer Smith with Duchene & Stone, Smith plays well when he is on a line with Stone & produces pts.

Smith - Duchene - Stone
Dzingel - Tierny - Ryan
Tkachuk - White - Batherson - a kid line would be exciting to watch but GB will never go for it.
4th line???? I'd go with Paul - Brown - Rodewald after the deadline, next yr Formenton replaces Rodewald to add some speed to that 4th line.
So boedker just disappears?
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,276
3,689
Ottabot City
Ryan has under performed for his contract. The fact he is playing better now is too little too late. The only reason he is still on the team is because his contract is so bad for what he produces. So we live with it. He is a vet on a team of young players. If he can't stand out from the pack now then there isn't any hope. All anyone wanted when he came to Ottawa was a skilled power forward who could be a leader on the score sheet.

It's funny how as soon as Ryan plays good for a stretch all of the "I told you so " crowd comes out but when the enviable slump comes they disappear.

What Xspirit's stats fail to show that in each of Ryan's first 3 seasons he had major scoring slumps in the second half of those seasons and had no chemistry with any player not named MacArthur or Turris.

This team has no expectations so if Ryan plays well so be it.
 

DrEasy

Out rumptackling
Oct 3, 2010
10,911
6,569
Stützville
Yeah, when Pageau is back, assuming everybody else is healthy (highly improbable) and not traded, I'd play Ryan with him. Ryan with Boadker and Tierney just stay on the perimeter and can't get much done. Pageau works harder.

Dzingel - Duchene - Batherson <- mix of speed, puck possession and net drive
Tkachuck - White - Stone <- Tkachuk + White combo needs to be kept. White is already clearly our #2 C
Ryan - Pageau - Boedker <- Pageau brings the spark, the hustle, the grind, the defensive responsibility
Smith - Tierney - 1 of the 3 P's <- this line can be given more than the usual 4th line minutes
 

umma gumma

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
3,623
2,143
Ryan has under performed for his contract. The fact he is playing better now is too little too late. The only reason he is still on the team is because his contract is so bad for what he produces. So we live with it. He is a vet on a team of young players. If he can't stand out from the pack now then there isn't any hope. All anyone wanted when he came to Ottawa was a skilled power forward who could be a leader on the score sheet.

It's funny how as soon as Ryan plays good for a stretch all of the "I told you so " crowd comes out but when the enviable slump comes they disappear.

What Xspirit's stats fail to show that in each of Ryan's first 3 seasons he had major scoring slumps in the second half of those seasons and had no chemistry with any player not named MacArthur or Turris.

This team has no expectations so if Ryan plays well so be it.
Aw man, can't you save your crap for when Bobby actually fades away?
 
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Icelevel

During these difficult times...
Sep 9, 2009
24,646
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He looked like a legit star in the first half of his first season here prior to getting hurt and eventually getting shut down. Don't quote me on this, but I think he was playing at a 35-40 goal/70 point pace.

I'm not saying he lived up to his extension early on, but it wasn't really until the hand injuries of the previous two seasons that he really became an albatross.

All I want to see this season from him is a strong 82 games where he doesn't get hurt and doesn't drop off during the second half. I am not even all that concerned about production since that's never really been the issue since we all accepted he isn't going to produce like he did as a Duck. The issue is that the guy has had 50 point paces, bit because he gets hurt so much he is really only good for 25-35 points.

His season so far has been a big positive.
Yes I’ll quote you. He was on pace for those numbers. Every game, they were awesome. Bobby was amazing.
Never mind the injuries. What was extreeeemely frustrating was that when healthy they weren’t put back together. Would really like to know why. Could have been due to horrible horrible coaching.
 
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Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
42,066
15,798
Ryan has under performed for his contract. The fact he is playing better now is too little too late. The only reason he is still on the team is because his contract is so bad for what he produces. So we live with it. He is a vet on a team of young players. If he can't stand out from the pack now then there isn't any hope. All anyone wanted when he came to Ottawa was a skilled power forward who could be a leader on the score sheet.

It's funny how as soon as Ryan plays good for a stretch all of the "I told you so " crowd comes out but when the enviable slump comes they disappear.

What Xspirit's stats fail to show that in each of Ryan's first 3 seasons he had major scoring slumps in the second half of those seasons and had no chemistry with any player not named MacArthur or Turris.

This team has no expectations so if Ryan plays well so be it.
I don't think theres many "I told you so's " left out here. we ALL know his contract is bad. some think hes better than others.

Your last statement is the truth. 'so be it'... its happening right now... so let it be.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Looked good out there again tonight, he's so crafty with the puck.
Against Detroit? He was terrible. Literally every time he touched the puck in the first 2 periods it ended up in a turnover going the other way. He was a huge liability 5 on 5 and was killing possession.
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,276
3,689
Ottabot City
I don't think theres many "I told you so's " left out here. we ALL know his contract is bad. some think hes better than others.

Your last statement is the truth. 'so be it'... its happening right now... so let it be.
I haven't ripped on Ryan this season. I said I will reserve judgment on his early play.
 
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