Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

[Xspyrit]

I'm posting this as a reference for later

PPG last 2 years / PPG last 5 years

Bobby Ryan $7,250,000 : 0.47/0.61

Matt Read $3,625,000 : 0.27/0.38
David Perron $3,750,000 : 0.74/0.65
Matt Beleskey $3,800,000 : 0.13 (63 GP)/0.38
Darren Helm $3,850,000 : 0.36/0.39
Patrick Berglund $3,850,000 : 0.41/0.39
Mikkel Boedker $4,000,000 : 0.39/0.53
Evgeni Dadonov $4,000,000 : 0.86 (65 GP)/0.86 (65 GP)
Nick Bonino $4,100,000 : 0.41/0.49
Mathieu Perreault $4,125,000 : 0.65/0.63
Nikolai Kulemin $4,187,500 : 0.31 (85 GP)/0.31
Tyler Bozak $4,187,500 : 0.63/0.66
Craig Smith $4,250,000 : 0.49/0.53
Justine Abdelkader $4,250,000 : 0.40/0.47
Michael Frolik $4,300,000 : 0.46/0.49
Brandon Sutter $4,375,000 : 0.39/0.38
Alex Killorn $4,450,000 : 0.50/0.51
Troy Brouwer $4,500,000 : 0.31/0.44
Nazem Kadri $4,500,000 : 0.72/0.64
Justin Williams $4,500,000 : 0.61/0.57
Artem Anisimov $4,550,000 : 0.57/0.54
Tyler Ennis $4,600,000 : 0.27/0.44
Clarke MacArthur $4,650,000 : 0.00 (4 GP)/0.61 (149 GP)
Jori Lehterä $4,700,000 : 0.25/0.40
Martin Hanzal $4,750,000 : 0.45/0.56
Carl Söderberg $4,750,000 : 0.33/0.50
Ryane Clowe $4,850,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.54 (56 GP)
Marian Gaborik $4,875,000 : 0.41/0.53
Derick Brassard $5,000,000 : 0.56/0.63
Reilly Smith $5,000,000 : 0.66/0.61
Matt Moulson $5,000,000 : 0.34/0.44
Valtteri Filppula $5,000,000 : 0.48/0.55
Mikhail Grabovski $5,000,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.47 (167 GP)
Tyler Johnson $5,000,000 : 0.67/0.69
Mike Hoffman $5,187,500 : 0.76/0.68
Frans Nielsen $5,250,000 : 0.47/0.57
Joffrey Lupul $5,250,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.46 (170 GP)
David Clarkson $5,250,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.21 (144 GP)
Nathan Horton $5,300,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.53 (36 GP)
Tomas Tatar $5,300,000 : 0.50/0.55
Dave Bolland $5,500,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.40 (101 GP)
Nick Foligno $5,500,000 : 0.56/0.63
Andrew Ladd $5,500,000 : 0.38/0.57
Jason Pominville $5,600,000 : 0.49/0.57
Blake Wheeler $5,600,000 : 1.01/0.91
T.J. Oshie $5,750,000 : 0.72/0.72
Alexander Steen $5,750,000 : 0.66/0.77
Travis Zajac $5,750,000 : 0.49/0.50
Ryan Callahan $5,800,000 : 0.23 (81 GP)/0.46
Brandon Dubinsky $5,850,000 : 0.41/0.57
Dustin Brown $5,875,000 : 0.57/0.43
Jordan Staal $6,000,000 : 0.59/0.56
Loui Eriksson $6,000,000 : 0.41/0.57
Kyle Okposo $6,000,000 : 0.63/0.78
Milan Lucic $6,000,000 : 0.54/0.61
Joe Pavelski $6,000,000 : 0.82/0.88
Tomas Plekanec $6,000,000 : 0.35/0.53
David Backes $6,000,000 : 0.53/0.63
Brad Marchand $6,125,000 : 1.17/0.85
Alexander Radulov $6,250,000 : 0.79/0.79 (151 GP)
Patrick Marleau $6,250,000 : 0.55/0.65
Mikko Koivu $6,750,000 : 0.64/0.67
Ryan Kesler $6,875,000 : 0.57/0.59
Patrice Bergeron $6,875,000 : 0.80/0.78
Henrik Sedin $7,000,000 : 0.61/0.72
Daniel Sedin $7,000,000 : 0.60/0.71
Paul Stastny $7,000,000 : 0.64/0.70
David Krejci $7,250,000 : 0.68/0.76
Jason Spezza $7,500,000 : 0.54/0.71
Ryan O'Reilly $7,500,000 : 0.74/0.76
Zach Parise $7,538,462 : 0.57/0.73
Rick Nash $7,800,000 : 0.52/0.63
Phil Kessel $8,000,000 : 0.97/0.88
Joe Thornton $8,000,000 : 0.68/0.84
Ryan Getzlaf $8,250,000 : 1.05/0.99
Jakub Voracek $8,250,000 : 0.90/0.86
Claude Giroux $8,250,000 : 0.94/0.94
Steven Stamkos $8,500,000 : 1.15/0.98
Corey Perry $8,625,000 : 0.66/0.79
Evgeni Malkin $9,500,000 : 1.23/1.14
Jamie Benn $9,500,000 : 0.91/0.99
Anze Kopitar $10,000,000 : 0.91/0.88
Patrick Kane $10,500,000 : 1.02/1.08
Jonathan Toews $10,500,000 : 0.75/0.79

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I'm posting this as a reference for later

PPG last 2 years / PPG last 5 years

Bobby Ryan $7,250,000 : 0.47/0.61

Matt Read $3,625,000 : 0.27/0.38
David Perron $3,750,000 : 0.74/0.65
Matt Beleskey $3,800,000 : 0.13 (63 GP)/0.38
Darren Helm $3,850,000 : 0.36/0.39
Patrick Berglund $3,850,000 : 0.41/0.39
Mikkel Boedker $4,000,000 : 0.39/0.53
Evgeni Dadonov $4,000,000 : 0.86 (65 GP)/0.86 (65 GP)
Nick Bonino $4,100,000 : 0.41/0.49
Mathieu Perreault $4,125,000 : 0.65/0.63
Nikolai Kulemin $4,187,500 : 0.31 (85 GP)/0.31
Tyler Bozak $4,187,500 : 0.63/0.66
Craig Smith $4,250,000 : 0.49/0.53
Justine Abdelkader $4,250,000 : 0.40/0.47
Michael Frolik $4,300,000 : 0.46/0.49
Brandon Sutter $4,375,000 : 0.39/0.38
Alex Killorn $4,450,000 : 0.50/0.51
Troy Brouwer $4,500,000 : 0.31/0.44
Nazem Kadri $4,500,000 : 0.72/0.64
Justin Williams $4,500,000 : 0.61/0.57
Artem Anisimov $4,550,000 : 0.57/0.54
Tyler Ennis $4,600,000 : 0.27/0.44
Clarke MacArthur $4,650,000 : 0.00 (4 GP)/0.61 (149 GP)
Jori Lehterä $4,700,000 : 0.25/0.40
Martin Hanzal $4,750,000 : 0.45/0.56
Carl Söderberg $4,750,000 : 0.33/0.50
Ryane Clowe $4,850,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.54 (56 GP)
Marian Gaborik $4,875,000 : 0.41/0.53
Derick Brassard $5,000,000 : 0.56/0.63
Reilly Smith $5,000,000 : 0.66/0.61
Matt Moulson $5,000,000 : 0.34/0.44
Valtteri Filppula $5,000,000 : 0.48/0.55
Mikhail Grabovski $5,000,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.47 (167 GP)
Tyler Johnson $5,000,000 : 0.67/0.69
Mike Hoffman $5,187,500 : 0.76/0.68
Frans Nielsen $5,250,000 : 0.47/0.57
Joffrey Lupul $5,250,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.46 (170 GP)
David Clarkson $5,250,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.21 (144 GP)
Nathan Horton $5,300,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.53 (36 GP)
Tomas Tatar $5,300,000 : 0.50/0.55
Dave Bolland $5,500,000 : 0.00 (0 GP)/0.40 (101 GP)
Nick Foligno $5,500,000 : 0.56/0.63
Andrew Ladd $5,500,000 : 0.38/0.57
Jason Pominville $5,600,000 : 0.49/0.57
Blake Wheeler $5,600,000 : 1.01/0.91
T.J. Oshie $5,750,000 : 0.72/0.72
Alexander Steen $5,750,000 : 0.66/0.77
Travis Zajac $5,750,000 : 0.49/0.50
Ryan Callahan $5,800,000 : 0.23 (81 GP)/0.46
Brandon Dubinsky $5,850,000 : 0.41/0.57
Dustin Brown $5,875,000 : 0.57/0.43
Jordan Staal $6,000,000 : 0.59/0.56
Loui Eriksson $6,000,000 : 0.41/0.57
Kyle Okposo $6,000,000 : 0.63/0.78
Milan Lucic $6,000,000 : 0.54/0.61
Joe Pavelski $6,000,000 : 0.82/0.88
Tomas Plekanec $6,000,000 : 0.35/0.53
David Backes $6,000,000 : 0.53/0.63
Brad Marchand $6,125,000 : 1.17/0.85
Alexander Radulov $6,250,000 : 0.79/0.79 (151 GP)
Patrick Marleau $6,250,000 : 0.55/0.65
Mikko Koivu $6,750,000 : 0.64/0.67
Ryan Kesler $6,875,000 : 0.57/0.59
Patrice Bergeron $6,875,000 : 0.80/0.78
Henrik Sedin $7,000,000 : 0.61/0.72
Daniel Sedin $7,000,000 : 0.60/0.71
Paul Stastny $7,000,000 : 0.64/0.70
David Krejci $7,250,000 : 0.68/0.76
Jason Spezza $7,500,000 : 0.54/0.71
Ryan O'Reilly $7,500,000 : 0.74/0.76
Zach Parise $7,538,462 : 0.57/0.73
Rick Nash $7,800,000 : 0.52/0.63
Phil Kessel $8,000,000 : 0.97/0.88
Joe Thornton $8,000,000 : 0.68/0.84
Ryan Getzlaf $8,250,000 : 1.05/0.99
Jakub Voracek $8,250,000 : 0.90/0.86
Claude Giroux $8,250,000 : 0.94/0.94
Steven Stamkos $8,500,000 : 1.15/0.98
Corey Perry $8,625,000 : 0.66/0.79
Evgeni Malkin $9,500,000 : 1.23/1.14
Jamie Benn $9,500,000 : 0.91/0.99
Anze Kopitar $10,000,000 : 0.91/0.88
Patrick Kane $10,500,000 : 1.02/1.08
Jonathan Toews $10,500,000 : 0.75/0.79

It's not as black and white as just finding players with similar points per game and saying "this guy makes x and has a similar point per game as Ryan, so Ryan is worth x or should be able to be traded if we retain money to bring him down to x".

Points per game is deceiving because of how often Ryan gets injured. He has missed around a quarter of both of the last seasons. So even if you prorate his points per game over 82 games, because he isn't likely to play all 82, it's a useless way to measure what he brings. He's projected to have missed 40 games over the last two seasons, which amounts to about 1/4th of the regular season.

Another issue is Ryan has significant term. Term is just as important as cap hit. Without any injury history, at Ryan's age he would project downward. Ryan in this case has a significant injury history that has resulted in him missing a quarter of the last two seasons, and then having to play through what is likely a significant number of games hurt. Regardless of whatever the magic number is where Ryan is worth his 25-33 (projected) points he has put up in the last two seasons, having Ryan down at that magic number for four more seasons would be a major issue.

What is that term? Shit creek without a paddle? That's where we are with Ryan. He is a legit cap albatross. I am comfortable guessing that there isn't a single GM who would take him for free half retained. It's a very unfortunate situation for both the team and for Ryan since he's a very good hockey player when he isn't battling the finger injuries.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I know the chronic hand injuries are risky but he still played 62 games last year and should play another 62 this year. Despite all these injuries, he only missed 40 games out of 164 games (so he played 76% of the games) plus he played in all of the 19 playoffs games.

Before last season, Ryan had a ~0.70 PPG with Ottawa (which is 57 pts per 82 games, 1st line numbers) in each of the first 3 seasons. Sure last season and the current one didn't go well but even through all the injuries, he has a 0.47 PPG which is 38 pts per 82 games. This is obviously not great but this season it has been better as he has a 0.54 PPG which is 44 pts per 82 games. Considering the context of the constant injuries, playing for a lower scoring team (22nd in GF/GP last year, 25th this season) in a "complicated defensive Boucher system", it's not that bad. Playing on a more offensive team with better offensive players (mostly due to injuries and trades), I can see Ryan easily back to 0.70 PPG. Heck, I think he would have reached that this year on a full year with Brassard and Stone.

There is some teams who have cap space and are seriously lacking scoring depth. Check the Sabres for example, worst team in GF/GP. I don't know, send Matt Moulson, a pick and a prospect for Ryan with 1.625 M$ retained. Take risks, try to score more goals. Ryan consistently creates scoring chances.

"I know the chronic hand injuries are risky but he still played 62 games last year and should play another 62 this year. Despite all these injuries, he only missed 40 games out of 164 games (so he played 76% of the games) plus he played in all of the 19 playoffs games."

It's not just the games missed injured. How many games did he play through where his performance was negatively affected by a large amount due to the finger injuries? We're talking about a contract lasting four more seasons for a player who has shown he cannot play in the NHL without re-injuring his fingers. No team is taking the risk to acquire Ryan.

"Before last season, Ryan had a ~0.70 PPG with Ottawa (which is 57 pts per 82 games, 1st line numbers) in each of the first 3 seasons. Sure last season and the current one didn't go well but even through all the injuries, he has a 0.47 PPG which is 38 pts per 82 games. This is obviously not great but this season it has been better as he has a 0.54 PPG which is 44 pts per 82 games. Considering the context of the constant injuries, playing for a lower scoring team (22nd in GF/GP last year, 25th this season) in a "complicated defensive Boucher system", it's not that bad. Playing on a more offensive team with better offensive players (mostly due to injuries and trades), I can see Ryan easily back to 0.70 PPG. Heck, I think he would have reached that this year on a full year with Brassard and Stone."

I don't think the way you are using point per game here is really applicable though. Because even if Ryan would get 44 points over 82 games....the guy isn't gonna play 82 games if the trend of his constant finger injuries continue. So at this point, the expectation for Ryan would be that in Ottawa's system, he's good for 25-30 points over 60 games.....

What you're saying about Guy Boucher's system being lower scoring is fair, but I don't think that is enough justification to get a team to take a shot on Ryan. Too much money, too much term, and he is already trending downwards.

"There is some teams who have cap space and are seriously lacking scoring depth. Check the Sabres for example, worst team in GF/GP. I don't know, send Matt Moulson, a pick and a prospect for Ryan with 1.625 M$ retained. Take risks, try to score more goals. Ryan consistently creates scoring chances."

Buffalo is gonna take Ryan and give us a pick+prospect? I think that is incredibly unrealistic. Moulson only has one year left at 5 million. I don't think it's realistic to expect the Sabres to take on a worse longer contract just because they are dumping 1 year of Moulson.....4 years of Ryan at 5.6M to dump 1 year of Moulson at 5M? Look at what we had to stomach to move Phaneuf.

We're talking about bundling Ryan with Karlsson now and Dorion is seen as one of the most active and aggressive GMs in the league. If there was anything even remotely close to what you proposed, I'm sure the Senators would have done it by now rather than had to resort to attaching Ryan to Karlsson.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

10 goals! He did it!!

 

[Xspyrit]

1) I don't understand this question? What do I think Ryan is worth? Is that the question. I think term is the bigger issue than salary with Ryan. Year to year, he is probably worth in the high 2M's low 3M's at this point. What's 30 points worth? But high 3Ms on a 4 year term, which is what he'd be making half retained, he is not worth that at all.

2) Nobody would sign Ryan to a four year deal.....nobody. He'd get 1 year at 2.5-3.5, or 2 years in the low 2M. Nobody is risking four years with the amount of games Ryan has been injured or have had to play through injuries for in the last two years? If we're talking about Ryan two years ago, he's probably worth somewhere in the 5M-6M range....but if we trade Ryan, we're not trading Ryan of two years ago, we're trading Ryan of 2018.

3) Yes, I would do that, but I doubt the Islanders would. Why would they want to take on a greater cap hit for a currently less effective player? I don't think it justifies clearing that final year for them.

Ladd also has a full NTC, so it's almost certainly not viable.

4) Depends on the context of what is happening. Do we think we can extend him starting July 1st 2019? Are we in 'win now' mode? If not. Sell high. Offers for Hoffman will be higher with two years left than they will with 1.

1) Simply according to this list of comparable forward contracts (and acknowledging that most are overpaid, aka not what we think it should be), in what range of salary do you think Ryan would be situated?

I'm a bit surprised coming from you that you'd think he would be worth "in the high 2M's low 3M's" considering that, despite injuries, he is outproducing a bunch of these contracts. Just by last year's playoffs, it would be hard to find a player "in the high 2M's low 3M's" scoring 15 pts in 19 games including 3 GWG (2 in OT). I mean "in the high 2M's low 3M's" is BELOW the average NHL salary (including RFA and ELC contracts) which is over 3.0 M$ this year.

Stating that is not worth 3.625 per is saying that Matt Read is on a good contract. In the last 2 years, he has a better pace than 30 of the forwards with an AAV between 3.625 and 7.625 (66 forwards) and in the last 5 years, he has outscored 43 of them. Let that sink in.

2) Nobody? Seriously? Yes there is risk involved because of injuries but Ryan is 31 y/o not 35... He has been a consistent ~0.70 PPG forward from 2011-12 to 2015-16 (and peaked before that) and had a terrible season by his standards last year but he is slowly crawling back this season with 0.55 PPG. Silfverberg has been over 0.48 PPG ONCE in his 6 years in the league and it was last season)

I'm pretty sure a team lacking offense and skilled wingers would take a chance on Ryan at 3.625 x 4 years. That amount is hardly crippling nowadays with a cap going between $78 million and $82 million next season. I mean for a team that is not afraid to spend money. Worse case scenario, he ends up on LTIR because of injuries or you could even buy him out in the last few years if he can't play NHL hockey anymore, which I doubt by watching him play and create scoring chances on a regular basis on a team starving for offense. The skill is there.

Players who went through injuries still get signed. Maybe the team signing him would get him on a 2 or 3 years deal instead but even though he missed 20 games in each of the last 2 years (and played injured in some others), Ryan is still better than most forwards available for free (outside of money). That's the first time he missed significant time in his career.

3) Really? Ladd has 1 more year left on his contract. He makes less but is not a top-6 forward anymore... He has a 0.38 PPG in the last 2 years WITHOUT the injury trouble that Ryan went through. He is a Zack Smith type forward at this point.

Of course I don't have the Islanders financial books but if I am them, I gladly make the swap. I'd have 1 year less of an overpaid but more capable forward

The Sens only do this to save money (Ladd has a decreasing salary), put him on the 3rd line and hope for the best. With 2 picks in the next first round (one being high) and several good forward prospects, that's a bet I'd take if I am the Sens.

4) Hoffman has 2 years left so he doesn't have to be traded now. Anyway, it really depends on what happens with Karlsson, and even at the draft. Will the Sens win the lottery and end up drafting Dahlin? Svechnikov? Zadina? How much would Karlsson accept? If the Sens get Dahlin, does that change the situation with Karlsson? If they trade him, will the Sens really go for a bigger rebuild and trade other vets like Hoffman? In that case, it would be a better timing to trade him and maximize the return.

 

[otown]

Noticed Pageau had an "A" on the jersey in Carolina. I can't remember if Ryan has ever had the honour when so many guys are injured but I could be wrong.
A bit of a statement if you were in Ryan's shoes (skates)!
You want to be part of the leadership team and core but the coach may view the situation differently. Just another trivial observation!

 

[Korpse]

Noticed Pageau had an "A" on the jersey in Carolina. I can't remember if Ryan has ever had the honour when so many guys are injured but I could be wrong.

 

[Xspyrit]

I have seen on Capfriendly a lot of people might have tried to buy out Bobby Ryan

First, it doesn't give a lot of financial benefit (if any) but here's some numbers :

Playoffs

2nd in scoring on the team since 2013-14 with 8 goals, 17 pts in 25 games (Karlsson is 1st with 3 goals, 22 pts in 25 games). Tied 1st in goals with Pageau

NHL.com - Stats

Regular Season

Tied 4th in scoring on the team (with Turris) since 2013-14 with 87 goals, 216 pts in 353 games. Karlsson is 1st with 83 goals, 355 pts in 394 games. Stone is 2nd with 95 goals, 249 pts in 303 games, Hoffman is 3rd with 107 goals, 230 pts in 338 games

NHL.com - Stats

5th in PPG for players with more than 75 games (behind Karlsson, Stone, Turris and Hoffman)

I understand getting rid of Ryan's contract but there's no urge to do it if it is true that Melnyk sells the team and they suddenly spend to the cap (no more tight budget?). I don't see the point of getting rid of your 4th/5th best forward UNTIL we have better NEW forwards (Brown? Batherson? White? Chlapik? Formenton? 4th oA pick? FA? Trade?)

So yes there could be a financial advantage to get rid of Ryan's contract but keep in mind that you need to replace him with a top-6 forward (if not, what's the point?) and those don't come cheap.

EDIT : even if you only look at the last 2 years, which were Ryan 2 worst seasons in the NHL (injury-plagued), only 4 forwards came up with a better PPG (Stone, Hoffman, Turris and Brassard) and 2 of them are gone with Duchene now on the team.

NHL.com - Stats

So for now, there's only 3 forwards who are clearly better and more productive (Duchene, Stone and Hoffman). Dzingel is right there but before "getting rid" of Ryan, show me at least 2 other better forwards.

 

[Stylizer1]

I have seen on Capfriendly a lot of people might have tried to buy out Bobby Ryan

First, it doesn't give a lot of financial benefit (if any) but here's some numbers :

Playoffs

2nd in scoring on the team since 2013-14 with 8 goals, 17 pts in 25 games (Karlsson is 1st with 3 goals, 22 pts in 25 games). Tied 1st in goals with Pageau

NHL.com - Stats

Regular Season

Tied 4th in scoring on the team (with Turris) since 2013-14 with 87 goals, 216 pts in 353 games. Karlsson is 1st with 83 goals, 355 pts in 394 games. Stone is 2nd with 95 goals, 249 pts in 303 games, Hoffman is 3rd with 107 goals, 230 pts in 338 games

NHL.com - Stats

5th in PPG for players with more than 75 games (behind Karlsson, Stone, Turris and Hoffman)

I understand getting rid of Ryan's contract but there's no urge to do it if it is true that Melnyk sells the team and they suddenly spend to the cap (no more tight budget?). I don't see the point of getting rid of your 4th/5th best forward UNTIL we have better NEW forwards (Brown? Batherson? White? Chlapik? Formenton? 4th oA pick? FA? Trade?)

So yes there could be a financial advantage to get rid of Ryan's contract but keep in mind that you need to replace him with a top-6 forward (if not, what's the point?) and those don't come cheap.

EDIT : even if you only look at the last 2 years, which were Ryan 2 worst seasons in the NHL (injury-plagued), only 4 forwards came up with a better PPG (Stone, Hoffman, Turris and Brassard) and 2 of them are gone with Duchene now on the team.

NHL.com - Stats

So for now, there's only 3 forwards who are clearly better and more productive (Duchene, Stone and Hoffman). Dzingel is right there but before "getting rid" of Ryan, show me at least 2 other better forwards.

Just trade him then. I think it is the fact that he is made of glass and can no longer be counted on to help us get into the playoffs. The 7.5 just can't be wasted any longer.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Agreed.

Ryan (unfortunately) remains our of our best forwards. Dumping him just to get rid of his contract makes us worse in the short to mid term.

 

[Boud]

Agreed.

Ryan (unfortunately) remains our of our best forwards. Dumping him just to get rid of his contract makes us worse in the short to mid term.

When he is healthy he is one of our best forwards. When he isn't, so about 50% of the time, he's not one of our best forwards.

 

[Micklebot]

When he is healthy he is one of our best forwards. When he isn't, so about 50% of the time, he's not one of our best forwards.

Last off season there was a lot of talk about him testing out some new gloves to address his hand issue. This year nothing. I think he has to give more protective gloves another go. Even if it means losing a bit of feel for the puck, it's better than having to freeze his hand before every game.

 

[Xspyrit]

If he didn't have those hands issue, then he wouldn't be so injury prone. So for the sake of the Senators, hopefully he gets lucky this season and stay on the ice putting up over 50 pts. Then another year on his contract passes, making him easier to trade (could even get assets if you retain a bit, which a wealthier owner would allow to do). By that time, that 4th OA pick and some of Batherson, Brown, etc could be close or top-6 forwards. So IMO we still need Ryan this upcoming season (unless trades/FA brings us 2 top-6 forwards) then we'll see

I think it could look like this in 2019-20 :

Hoffman-Duchene-Batherson
Zadina-Brown-Stone
Dzingel-Pageau-White
Formenton-Chlapik-Gagne

Perron, Paul, Luchuk, Kelly, Nurmi, other picks?

That looks good if those prospects reach some of their potential, no? Brown and Batherson are key and I have faith in them. We also need to hit a homerun with that 4th OA pick (top-6 forward OR top-4 D-man)

Speaking of defense, hard to say but I think it could look like this :

Chabot-Karlsson
Wolanin-Ceci
Lajoie-Jaros
Borowiecki

Harpur, Englund, Summers, Claesson, Wideman?

Goaltending remains a bit of a question mark (as well as coaching)

Gustavsson, Hogberg, etc?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

When he is healthy he is one of our best forwards. When he isn't, so about 50% of the time, he's not one of our best forwards.

I pretty much agree with this. Personality wise, he's one of my favourite Senators so I'd love to see him bounce back and play all 82 games without injury. I don't think that's a realistic expectation though. I can't see how a guy who hasn't been able to shake hand injuries for 2.5 or so years should be expected to get better and not worse in that regard.

If there's a reasonable opportunity to get out of that contract, I think we should take it, especially so if we're keeping Karlsson and not raising our budget ceiling by a dramatic amount. Outside of revisiting the Karlsson to VGK trade, I don't think we'll really have a chance to dump that contract though.

 

[senswon]

Bobby needs to contact his gloves sponsor and get some custom ones made.

You're a millionaire sniper whos career is in jeopardy with that many hand injuries.

He really needs a bounce back season.
Maybe some power skating too...

 

[topshelf15]

Bobby needs to contact his gloves sponsor and get some custom ones made.

You're a millionaire sniper whos career is in jeopardy with that many hand injuries.

He really needs a bounce back season.
Maybe some power skating too...

Which is why giving up assets to move him right now, just doesnt seem to be the play...Two things that could happen that may make his contract a non issue for us moving forward,would be one ...The hand injuries force him to go on LTIR for the remaining duration of his contract...2 he has a bounce back season and gets back to his normal levels of production thus making it far easier for us to trade him....For now we need the owner to just view his contract as dead money ,and not include it in with the player budget

 

[Do Make Say Think]

When he is healthy he is one of our best forwards. When he isn't, so about 50% of the time, he's not one of our best forwards.

When he can play he is one of our best forwards. He is unreliable due to health reasons but if we just dump him (say find some crazy way to trade him for no money back and no retention) this summer then we are still a far worse team in the short to mid term because we have no one who can replace him and we'll never sign a quality UFA who isn't just about past his prime.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

When he can play he is one of our best forwards. He is unreliable due to health reasons but if we just dump him (say find some crazy way to trade him for no money back and no retention) this summer then we are still a far worse team in the short to mid term because we have no one who can replace him and we'll never sign a quality UFA who isn't just about past his prime.

By keeping Ryan, we're gonna lose 7.5M of other players though. So it's not like there's no return on dumping that contract.

We're at about 58M with 19 skaters signed. Mark Stone should get at least 6M next year, so that alone takes us up to 64. Ceci probably up to 68. I say 6M to be ultra conservative and prove the point that if our budget is in a similar range to the last few seasons, we're already tapped out.

If we end up trading Karlsson, Hoffman, and a few others without getting back NHLers, then that obviously changes things.

 

[Boud]

When he can play he is one of our best forwards. He is unreliable due to health reasons but if we just dump him (say find some crazy way to trade him for no money back and no retention) this summer then we are still a far worse team in the short to mid term because we have no one who can replace him and we'll never sign a quality UFA who isn't just about past his prime.

Get a guy that puts up 40 points and can play well at both ends of the ice and you've succesfully replaced Ryan with a player that will play the entire year.

Problem is, when Ryan is out we need to replace him internally with someone significantly worse than if we replaced him by getting someone else instead. When he is in the lineup and playing injured, he is not very good he has a hard time shooting the puck and that's on top of him already having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the team. So yea, we are a worse team if you compare it to him being healthy but that's almost never the case unfortunately.

On paper he makes us better but on the ice.. He probably compares to an average middle 6 forward.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Alfie was able to fix his foot issues with new skates (Kelly's I think) and went on to have a career resurgence, maybe Bobby can get the right gloves and put together a healthy season.

The thing with him is that he's a good player when his hands are healthy, really good, so he needs to fix the hand issue, somehow. If he can, we'll have a solid top six winger back in the mix. I don't want to trade him, I want to fix what seems to be a very fixable situation.

 

[Micklebot]

Alfie was able to fix his foot issues with new skates (Kelly's I think) and went on to have a career resurgence, maybe Bobby can get the right gloves and put together a healthy season.

The thing with him is that he's a good player when his hands are healthy, really good, so he needs to fix the hand issue, somehow. If he can, we'll have a solid top six winger back in the mix. I don't want to trade him, I want to fix what seems to be a very fixable situation.

I agree ideally we find a way to fix his injury issues, but I don't know that I agree it's very fixable. They've tried more protective gloves, but I think he didn't like thenm or something.

I think the damage may be done, and we won't be able to get back to where he was. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Rand0m]

They've tried more protective gloves, but I think he didn't like thenm or something.

I think Bobby should just suck it up, how uncomfortable can the extra protective gloves really be? I think he'd be 100x more effective if he played with gloves that were a bit uncomfortable but he was otherwise healthy vs playing with broken fingers and being useless. He's great when his hands don't hurt, it's just that when he has a broken finger, he might as well just sit out and heal properly since he's not that effective at that time anyway.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I think Bobby should just suck it up, how uncomfortable can the extra protective gloves really be? I think he'd be 100x more effective if he played with gloves that were a bit uncomfortable but he was otherwise healthy vs playing with broken fingers and being useless. He's great when his hands don't hurt, it's just that when he has a broken finger, he might as well just sit out and heal properly since he's not that effective at that time anyway.

His skating is atrocious its not only his hands. Only thing he's somewhat decent in is along the boards.

 

[DJB]

If he truly cares about resurrecting his career i hope he took his off season training seriously. Dude needs to lose about 15 pounds of fat and improve his foot speed. He is one of the slowest top 6 forwards in the NHL.

Im tired of the hand injuries used as a crutch. Either get better padded gloves or improve your shot. Ive never been impressed with Bobby 's shot. For a supposed goal scorer its atrocious.Ive felt that way pre hand injuries too

If he comes in this season and those two items arent fixed it clearly tells me hes a moron and completely blind and unable to properly self evaluate or the dude has simply mailed it in has his feet up and enjoys cashing his cheque.

If that's true he needs to GTFO asap. Trade him or buy him out. We dont need that crap here.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I agree ideally we find a way to fix his injury issues, but I don't know that I agree it's very fixable. They've tried more protective gloves, but I think he didn't like thenm or something.

I think the damage may be done, and we won't be able to get back to where he was. Hope I'm wrong though.

Yup, you may be right regarding the damage being done, and I too hope it isn't the case.

I guess I meant fixable in the sense that if Bobby can wear different gloves but is choosing not too, he might just have to do it regardless and work on adapting his game. If it is that kind of fixable, then he's got to do it, it seems like it would be the only way he can be consistently effective for us.