Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

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Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,276
3,689
Ottabot City
Why would Vegas trade the assets necessary to acquire EK65, based on "assurances" that are unenforceable?

If Karlsson had lead them to a Stanley Cup, decided after July 1st that what he was being offered was not what he was now worth?
What recourse would Vegas have?

People have to stop making up ridiculous scenarios in an attempt to verify a rumour.
Funny thing is I actually was thinking of making up a team and player name so that it would be obvious that this was hypothetical.

Damm.

You changed the argument from how would anyone know that these conversions took place to why would Vegas do it?
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
He scored 18 goals as a 27 year old on a playoff team, he’s never been elite, just hyped that way

Did I say he was elite? I said his shot was, or at least close to that.

That being said, your argument is weak. You just haven't noticed that Bobby Ryan hasn't been a goal scorer in years.

SeasonAgeTmLgGPGAPTSGCPIMSGAPTSGCTGFPGFTGAPGA+/-E+/-OPSDPSPSAtt.MadeMissPct.
2007-0820ANANHL2340.220.220.430.170.261.616511512580-10.90.31.2
2008-0921ANANHL64230.480.410.890.360.522.72332659258229400136.21.67.861516.7
2009-1022ANANHL81270.430.360.790.331.003.1938306829972761096.61.88.41010.0
2010-1123ANANHL82280.410.450.870.340.743.2938407832107237910156.62.59.232166.7
2011-1224ANANHL82240.380.320.700.290.652.4935286327731562515.71.87.552340.0
2012-1325ANANHL46110.240.410.650.240.372.2021355621461429032.40.93.352340.0
2013-1426OTTNHL70190.330.360.690.280.642.71262753227-4.24.81.36.14040.0
2014-1527OTTNHL78200.230.460.690.250.312.832039592277235125-0.54.41.56.0114736.4
2015-1628OTTNHL81220.270.420.690.270.352.26253863247822650-9-11.35.20.86.0116554.5
2016-1729OTTNHL62100.210.190.400.170.391.79141327115116380-3-1.51.51.02.583537.5
2017-1830OTTNHL4990.160.390.550.190.201.7310233312438420-63.91.30.62.041325.0
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He had a good season goal scoring wise in his first year with Ottawa (and decent in 2015-16) but the last time he was a +30 goals scorer is 6 years ago. His game has vastly changed since then, due to many factors, mainly injuries and just getting older in general. He peaked early in that department.

I don't know how long you have been following the NHL but I have seen countless number of times players style change for injury and age reasons, as well as other reasons. Yzerman sacrificed offense to become a more complete player and a better leader.

Bobby Ryan became injury-prone over time, think about Havlat, Gaborik, Michalek, etc all players who would have had much better careers if they would have been able to stay healthy all the way.

Gaborik would be a first ballot HOFer for example. He still has 405 goals and 407 assists. We'd be talking about a +500 goals/1000 points player.

If you look at Ryan numbers, he had an early peak at 21-23 y/o, but has been a 0.7 PPG (lose to 60 points) for each of the following 5 years after that. His production started dropping last season with a ridiculous injury-bug and off-ice issues. He has a semi-bounce back season this year but again, too many injuries. I wouldn't be surprised to see him post more 50-60 pts seasons in the future, depending on where and with who he plays, and of course health.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
Jesus. Your a real piece of work. The fat and lazy guy is living out his dream while you sit on your couch and behind a computer commenting about him. Let’s look at your situation and compare it to his. Who is more likely to be fat and lazy

6'2 and 207 lbs

Comon man that's freaking fat

You could argue he was elite in Anaheim, or certainly close, but he’s never been elite in Ottawa.

He was supposed to come in hot, but he cooled off quickly.

He had 3 first good years though with the exact same 0.69 PPG, which is good in today's hockey. Only 56 forwards scored more points during that period (2013-14 to 2015-16)

Damn! So Dorion was really going to lower the value of Karlsson and package Ryan with him LOL.

Do you really think Dorion decides that much? Ottawa could easily afford (on the cap) an overpaid Ryan but Melnyk and his budget do not.

Dorion is certainly not the best trader but he definitely has instructions to shed salary

I don’t like the fact that Ryan is leaking this failed trade, to be it stays in house and he shouldn’t be speaking for Karlsson - but I’m not surprised, Ryan’s hasn’t put in the effort to make the team better and comments like this show how he’s not fully invested or respectful of he team ir management.

What about the Sens own fanbase? Do you think it has been more respectful of the team or management? :laugh:

Internet is public. People have access to all the comments, coming from the fanbase, players, management, etc.

God I hope our plan isn't to just buy out Ryan, it makes no sense when you break down the numbers.

lol i know, I have read that in the article and immediately thought "ok it's a bit amateurish"

You don't save that much to begin with AND you need a top-6 player that will replace him. Some people seem to think it's the easiest thing to do but right now with Brassard gone, MacArthur done and Ryan leaving (?), you need THREE (3) top-6 forwards (maybe 2 if Dzingel is now considered a top-6). Ok, maybe one with a top-5 pick, then you have Brown, Batherson, White, Chlapik, Formenton, maybe Gagne and another first rounder but they won't all magically become top-6 forwards right away.

Sens save 14.66 M$ in the first 4 years but in the end only 7.33 M$ over 8 years... lol and you need a replacement

Buyout Details

SEASONSALARYINITIAL CAP HITACTUAL COSTSAVINGSBUYOUT CAP HIT
2018-19$5,500,000$7,250,000$1,833,333$3,666,667$3,583,333
2019-20$5,500,000$7,250,000$1,833,333$3,666,667$3,583,333
2020-21$5,500,000$7,250,000$1,833,333$3,666,667$3,583,333
2021-22$5,500,000$7,250,000$1,833,333$3,666,667$3,583,333
2022-23$0$0$1,833,333-$1,833,333$1,833,333
2023-24$0$0$1,833,333-$1,833,333$1,833,333
2024-25$0$0$1,833,333-$1,833,333$1,833,333
2025-26$0$0$1,833,333-$1,833,333$1,833,333
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I believe the best way to "get rid of Ryan" is to retain money on his contract and bring it to a fair amount. Let's say you retain 2.25 per, then you're trading Ryan at 4 years x 5.0. He should have value then but not sure I expect much from Dorion judging by the Phaneuf trade...
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
An important quote for me in the article

“Generally you don’t talk to anybody within the organization about it, because … I don’t want to say you’re crossing the line by asking, but you know it’s out of your hands,” he said. “Other than you going in and solidifying yourself with them by saying ‘I don’t want to be here’ it’s not going to do anybody any good. The GM has that right to listen to every team and every option available. So I think in the room guys generally understand that, and they don’t take it personally, as you get older.

I think all sports team athletes are aware of that. It's a business and I have no problem if the manager is discussing trades. As long as the goal is to make the team better in the end, which remains to be seen unfortunately. Dorion inherited a great situation (lots of good assets on the roster and in the pool), had a great first season but his team failed in his 2nd year. Let's see what he can do to fix it. Based on multiple signings and trades, I am a bit worried.

The second we demanded that Ryan be included in the deal was the second opposing GMs realized where our true priorities are, and that we can be taken advantage of as long as they can help us save a buck.

Unfortunately that has been the mantra for a while, we have been bleeding assets to save money. Hemsky trade, Brassard trade, Turris trade (Hammond), Phaneuf/Thompson trade... Even the Lehner trade, we could have gotten more if we weren't dumping Legwand's salary in the process. Am I forgetting a trade?

Injuries essentially derailed his career as a star player. He's still good (when not injured) but slightly overpaid.

It is a shame and there isn't anyone to blame.

I agree in general but Ryan was overpaid from the start. He should have had an AAV around 6.0-6.5 per season, but the leverage he had from the fact that Ottawa was desperate to retain him and the fact that there is a lot more taxes in Canada than most (if not all) USA markets, (and cold winter, small market, etc) made him ask for more.

Just like with the Radulov situation in Montreal, he wanted 7.1 to stay in Montreal but they weren't apparently ready to give it up so he took 6.25 in Dallas, reportedly because of taxes. That being said, at some point maybe Canadian teams should get an advantage for that disadvantage. They have to overpay some FAs to be able to keep or attract them.

So with Ryan, you had a 0.7 PPG forward for 7.25 instead of maybe 6.25 and then based on his play and injuries made him even more overpaid.

Of course there is no one to blame here, it's just part of the pro sports reality. Players are often diminished by injuries and it makes them overpaid.

The Sens operations bring in a positive $ stream and could spend to the cap if the owner hadn't chosen to saddle the asset with a ridiculous debt load.

If he spent to the cap and showed a willingness to compete, then people would be far more willing to buy tickets (season and game day).

The owner is the one who needs to change his business practices or sell to someone who will.

I kinda agree with this. At some point, the owner has to take risks again and spend to possibly make more, a bit like "going all-in".

They were speaking about this situation in Tampa Bay on Montreal's radio, the new owner invested more when things weren't going well, and it is starting to pay off.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
So, I have read several times that you would need to retain 50% of Ryan's salary to actually be able to move him (without including him in an EK trade). That made me do some research. I listed ALL the veteran forwards AAV who are on their big UFA contracts making more this year than Ryan at 50% :

Matt Read $3,625,000
David Perron $3,750,000 (he got this contract before this season where he has a big jump in production)
Matt Beleskey $3,800,000
Darren Helm $3,850,000
Patrick Berglund $3,850,000
Mikkel Boedker $4,000,000

Evgeni Dadonov $4,000,000 (was out of the NHL for years and totally unproven)
Nick Bonino $4,100,000
Mathieu Perreault $4,125,000
Nikolai Kulemin $4,187,500

Tyler Bozak $4,187,500 (signed it in July 2013, had a 0.56 PPG in 238 games before that)
Craig Smith $4,250,000
Justine Abdelkader $4,250,000
Michael Frolik $4,300,000
Brandon Sutter $4,375,000
Alex Killorn $4,450,000
Troy Brouwer $4,500,000

Nazem Kadri $4,500,000 (one of the best contracts in the league, he signed a bit too fast in April 2016,before his jump in production)
Justin Williams $4,500,000 (36 y/o 2 years contract)
Artem Anisimov $4,550,000
Tyler Ennis $4,600,000
Clarke MacArthur $4,650,000
Jori Lehterä $4,700,000
Martin Hanzal $4,750,000
Carl Söderberg$4,750,000
Ryane Clowe $4,850,000
Marian Gaborik $4,875,000

Derick Brassard $5,000,000 (sweet deal but didn't have great seasons before he signed this)
Reilly Smith $5,000,000 (good deal because he signed too quickly, had decent stats but not as productive as this year)
Matt Moulson $5,000,000
Valtteri Filppula $5,000,000
Mikhail Grabovski $5,000,000

Tyler Johnson $5,000,000 (great deal, TB only got this because of 2 disappointing seasons)
Mike Hoffman $5,187,500 (sweet deal, best Dorion signing IMO)
Frans Nielsen $5,250,000
Joffrey Lupul $5,250,000 (would have gotten more if he wasn't so injury-prone)
David Clarkson $5,250,000
Nathan Horton $5,300,000 (another guy that would have gotten more if it wasn't for injuries)
Tomas Tatar $5,300,000
Dave Bolland $5,500,000
Nick Foligno $5,500,000
Andrew Ladd $5,500,000
Jason Pominville $5,600,000

Blake Wheeler $5,600,000 (this contract is a steal, should fire his agent. Even in July 2013 he should have gotten much more. Will get a lot more on his next deal)
T.J. Oshie $5,750,000 (would have been higher if it didn't take him to 39 y/o...)
Alexander Steen $5,750,000 (34 to 38 y/o deal)
Travis Zajac $5,750,000
Ryan Callahan $5,800,000
Brandon Dubinsky $5,850,000
Dustin Brown $5,875,000
Jordan Staal $6,000,000
Loui Eriksson $6,000,000
Kyle Okposo $6,000,000
Milan Lucic $6,000,000

Joe Pavelski $6,000,000 (great deal but it was signed in July 2013 before he had a great jump in production)
Tomas Plekanec $6,000,000
David Backes $6,000,000

Brad Marchand $6,125,000 (steal of a contract but he exploded in production after signing)
Alexander Radulov $6,250,000 (great deal, lower taxes played a part, he wanted over 7 M$ per in Montreal)
Patrick Marleau $6,250,000 (38 to 40 y/o contract)
Mikko Koivu $6,750,000 (was on a good contract for the most part)
Ryan Kesler $6,875,000 (not a bad deal but look at his production the 3 years prior)
Patrice Bergeron $6,875,000 (fantastic deal)
Henrik Sedin $7,000,000 (covered the declining part of their career)
Daniel Sedin $7,000,000 (covered the declining part of their career)
Paul Stastny $7,000,000
David Krejci $7,250,000
Jason Spezza $7,500,000
Ryan O'Reilly $7,500,000

Zach Parise $7,538,462 (despite it being a c.c. 13 years deal)
Evgeny Kuznetsov $7,800,000 (despite 3 years out of 8 being RFA years)
Rick Nash $7,800,000
Ryan Johansen $8,000,000 (2 RFA years)
Phil Kessel $8,000,000 (despite a big amount, it's a very good deal)
Joe Thornton $8,000,000 (38 y/o, 1 year contract)
Ryan Getzlaf $8,250,000 (same as Kessel)
Jakub Voracek $8,250,000 (up and down production)
Claude Giroux $8,250,000 (same as Voracek)
Steven Stamkos $8,500,000 (great deal, could have gotten more but stayed in the sun, on a great team, no taxes too)
Corey Perry $8,625,000 (his production has been slowing down too)
Evgeni Malkin $9,500,000 (one of the best deals in the NHL)
Jamie Benn $9,500,000 (good deal for now)
Anze Kopitar $10,000,000 (at that price, he can't produce like last season)
Patrick Kane $10,500,000
Jonathan Toews $10,500,000


Note : I didn't include cap circumventing deals like Carter, Zetterberg, Crosby, Ovechkin and Hossa. There is also many players who are overpaid on their RFA years like Brandon Saad and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Ryan Johansen


Ryan is better and MORE productive than many on this list (particularly before 6 M$ AAV). He is far from being the only one overpaid. Actually, what's funny is that if you look at dollars vs production, the majority of these guys could be considered "overpaid". That's the reality of the NHL market, you are supposed to benefit players when they are on their ELCs or RFA contracts and then they become expensive, all you can do is hope that they stay productive and can help you win.

Yes Ryan had an early peak when he was 21-23 years old but if you look at it, he has been a ~0.70 PPG forward (usually top-60 forwards numbers) for the 5 following years. He had a big drop in production last year but he kept getting injured, lost his mother from cancer, had his first new-born and was playing for a new coach who is not exactly favoring an offensive style. This season, his production went back up partially but he has still been dealing with many injuries.

Bobby Ryan still has high end skill and hockey IQ (as displayed on the big stage in last playoffs). If he could remain healthy a full season playing with good offensive players, this guy easily score 50+ pts.

All that being said, I have 4 questions :

1) Where do you think he would fit on that list in terms of salary range

2) How much do you think he would get on a 4 years deal on the UFA market

3) Would you trade him 1 for 1 for Andrew Ladd? (1.5 older than Ryan, 5 years left, 5.5 AAV but only 23 M$ owed in salary vs 4 years left for Ryan and 30 M$ owed in salary)

4) How dumb would it be to actually trade Mike Hoffman as he seems to have one of the best contracts among veteran forwards?
 
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danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
I would not take Ryan half retained for free if I was a GM of a rival team. Too much risk with what are looking to be chronic hand/finger injuries. Nearly 4M for another four years is a lot to commit with that risk. There's obviously a high end reward because Ryan is a 5M-6M type player when on, but I think the risk is too great.

I wouldn't have said that two years ago, but the finger injuries have really changed things. Ryan just cannot be relied on. Would you really want to take on 3.65M x 4 for a player who is projected to have provided their team 28 points a season over the last two seasons and has potential to decline even further? It'd be one thing if that was a healthy two way 3rd liner putting up 28 points with the ability to be a shutdown type player, but we're talking about a floundering offensive player with significant downside if things get worse.
 

Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
@Xspyrit, when we end up trading Ryan, it should be similar to the Phaneuf deal. My best guess is that it will be next deadline, or next summer. At that point he will just have 3 years left on his deal. If we retain 25%, he'll be making 5.4375M for the team that trades for him. Not bad at all, and the Sens would save a ton of money. It should be relatively "easy" to trade him by then, especially if he is healthy next season. His playoff run will still be fresh, and if he doesn't injure his hand again he'll at least be a 40-45 pt skill player next year. We might even end up getting a better return than we did for Phaneuf.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
All that being said, I have 4 questions :

1) Where do you think he would fit on that list in terms of salary range

2) How much do you think he would get on a 4 years deal on the UFA market

3) Would you trade him 1 for 1 for Andrew Ladd? (1.5 older than Ryan, 5 years left, 5.5 AAV but only 23 M$ owed in salary vs 4 years left for Ryan and 30 M$ owed in salary)

4) How dumb would it be to actually trade Mike Hoffman as he seems to have one of the best contracts among veteran forwards?

1) Where do you think he would fit on that list in terms of salary range
I don't understand this question? What do I think Ryan is worth? Is that the question. I think term is the bigger issue than salary with Ryan. Year to year, he is probably worth in the high 2M's low 3M's at this point. What's 30 points worth? But high 3Ms on a 4 year term, which is what he'd be making half retained, he is not worth that at all.

2) How much do you think he would get on a 4 years deal on the UFA market
Nobody would sign Ryan to a four year deal.....nobody. He'd get 1 year at 2.5-3.5, or 2 years in the low 2M. Nobody is risking four years with the amount of games Ryan has been injured or have had to play through injuries for in the last two years? If we're talking about Ryan two years ago, he's probably worth somewhere in the 5M-6M range....but if we trade Ryan, we're not trading Ryan of two years ago, we're trading Ryan of 2018.

3) Would you trade him 1 for 1 for Andrew Ladd? (1.5 older than Ryan, 5 years left, 5.5 AAV but only 23 M$ owed in salary vs 4 years left for Ryan and 30 M$ owed in salary)

Yes, I would do that, but I doubt the Islanders would. Why would they want to take on a greater cap hit for a currently less effective player? I don't think it justifies clearing that final year for them.

Ladd also has a full NTC, so it's almost certainly not viable.

4) How dumb would it be to actually trade Mike Hoffman as he seems to have one of the best contracts among veteran forwards?

Depends on the context of what is happening. Do we think we can extend him starting July 1st 2019? Are we in 'win now' mode? If not. Sell high. Offers for Hoffman will be higher with two years left than they will with 1.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
1) Where do you think he would fit on that list in terms of salary range

2) How much do you think he would get on a 4 years deal on the UFA market

3) Would you trade him 1 for 1 for Andrew Ladd? (1.5 older than Ryan, 5 years left, 5.5 AAV but only 23 M$ owed in salary vs 4 years left for Ryan and 30 M$ owed in salary)

4) How dumb would it be to actually trade Mike Hoffman as he seems to have one of the best contracts among veteran forwards?

1. I'd compare him to Frolik and Brouwer who are both overpaid as well. He's probably a 2.5-3M type of player you'd only want to give 1 or 2 year contracts.

2. 4 years in UFA market, he gets way less than the 3M he'd get on a 1 year deal. 8M over 4 years would be my ball park.

3. Yes. Similar production for less money, plus Ladd brings more to the table on and off the ice.

4. Supremely.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,828
9,251
It's hard to know what to do with Ryan. Everything (as usual) hinges on Karlsson. If Erik is moved in a teardown and rebuild, then we won't need to move Ryans salary.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,713
6,798
It's hard to know what to do with Ryan. Everything (as usual) hinges on Karlsson. If Erik is moved in a teardown and rebuild, then we won't need to move Ryans salary.

Ryan’s salary is a himdernace because if was paid what he’s worth (say Maccathur numbers at $4.5) then we have an extra $3 million to pay Stone with.

But he needs to go because he’s a poison to the culture of the team. Nice guy but on the ice he’s a dud and sets a horrid example for the kids.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,828
9,251
Ryan’s salary is a himdernace because if was paid what he’s worth (say Maccathur numbers at $4.5) then we have an extra $3 million to pay Stone with.

But he needs to go because he’s a poison to the culture of the team. Nice guy but on the ice he’s a dud and sets a horrid example for the kids.

Yes, but if Erik is gone (I definitely don't want him gone!), we will have the money to pay Stone regardless if Ryan is here or not.

My worry is having to give up assets to get rid of him. If it isn't absolutely necessary, then why bother? Hold onto Ryan for 2-3 years, and then in the last 1-2 years of his contract, you can trade him for a late round pick.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,467
23,038
East Coast
Ryan really isn't a very good forward, regardless of his salary.

Slow, injury prone, can't shoot anymore. He's a playmaking winger at this point.

I'd love for playoff Ryan to be a thing, but don't see it happening.
 
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Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
Ryan really isn't a very good forward, regardless of his salary.

Slow, injury prone, can't shoot anymore. He's a playmaking winger at this point.

I'd love for playoff Ryan to be a thing, but don't see it happening.

Probably a 40-45 pt forward when healthy... 50 pts seems out of reach at this point.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,989
49,506
With all the reinstated hope I had for Ryan after the playoffs, he follows up with an 8 goal, 30 point season :/
Which is 5th among Sens forwards behind
Stone
Hoffman
Duchene
Dzingel
... he would be 6th if we include Brassard.
He's tied with Dzingel in p/g.
I am sure he played quite a few of those games with a lot of discomfort in his hands...
 

Adrianopolous

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
4,341
3,723
Delray Beach, Florida
Which is 5th among Sens forwards behind
Stone
Hoffman
Duchene
Dzingel
... he would be 6th if we include Brassard.
He's tied with Dzingel in p/g.
I am sure he played quite a few of those games with a lot of discomfort in his hands...

How many years are we going to keep giving Ryan excuse after excuse? Every year there's some other reason why I should feel sorry for Ryan, and why his poor season is warranted. Spezza, Zibanejad, etc were chastised and driven right out of town for much LESS. Yet every year Ryan has excuses and sob stories lined up and ready to go. Oh and are you really comparing Ryan's output to Dzingel to make Ryan look good? Is this what Bobby has become?

It's getting really tiring.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,989
49,506
How many years are we going to keep giving Ryan excuse after excuse? Every year there's some other reason why I should feel sorry for Ryan, and why his poor season is warranted. Spezza, Zibanejad, etc were chastised and driven right out of town for much LESS. Yet every year Ryan has excuses and sob stories lined up and ready to go. Oh and are you really comparing Ryan's output to Dzingel to make Ryan look good? Is this what Bobby has become?

It's getting really tiring.

Just stating the facts .. I am not defending Ryan or trying to prop him up in any way.
 

MakeOttawaGreatAgain

Illest guy in town!
Feb 28, 2007
4,054
268
6'2 and 207 lbs

Comon man that's freaking fat
That's not a good way of judging obesity in an athlete. Of course it seems like some of Ryan's weight is not good weight, but just to stir the pot, here is someone who is 6'2" and weighs 231lbs:
17220ff715f2d694c68d5a6cd1dcf400.jpg

Fat as hell, right?
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
Ok there is a lot of things I need to reply on but it might take a bit of time.

I would not take Ryan half retained for free if I was a GM of a rival team. Too much risk with what are looking to be chronic hand/finger injuries. Nearly 4M for another four years is a lot to commit with that risk. There's obviously a high end reward because Ryan is a 5M-6M type player when on, but I think the risk is too great.

I wouldn't have said that two years ago, but the finger injuries have really changed things. Ryan just cannot be relied on. Would you really want to take on 3.65M x 4 for a player who is projected to have provided their team 28 points a season over the last two seasons and has potential to decline even further? It'd be one thing if that was a healthy two way 3rd liner putting up 28 points with the ability to be a shutdown type player, but we're talking about a floundering offensive player with significant downside if things get worse.

I know the chronic hand injuries are risky but he still played 62 games last year and should play another 62 this year. Despite all these injuries, he only missed 40 games out of 164 games (so he played 76% of the games) plus he played in all of the 19 playoffs games.

Before last season, Ryan had a ~0.70 PPG with Ottawa (which is 57 pts per 82 games, 1st line numbers) in each of the first 3 seasons. Sure last season and the current one didn't go well but even through all the injuries, he has a 0.47 PPG which is 38 pts per 82 games. This is obviously not great but this season it has been better as he has a 0.54 PPG which is 44 pts per 82 games. Considering the context of the constant injuries, playing for a lower scoring team (22nd in GF/GP last year, 25th this season) in a "complicated defensive Boucher system", it's not that bad. Playing on a more offensive team with better offensive players (mostly due to injuries and trades), I can see Ryan easily back to 0.70 PPG. Heck, I think he would have reached that this year on a full year with Brassard and Stone.

There is some teams who have cap space and are seriously lacking scoring depth. Check the Sabres for example, worst team in GF/GP. I don't know, send Matt Moulson, a pick and a prospect for Ryan with 1.625 M$ retained. Take risks, try to score more goals. Ryan consistently creates scoring chances.

@Xspyrit, when we end up trading Ryan, it should be similar to the Phaneuf deal. My best guess is that it will be next deadline, or next summer. At that point he will just have 3 years left on his deal. If we retain 25%, he'll be making 5.4375M for the team that trades for him. Not bad at all, and the Sens would save a ton of money. It should be relatively "easy" to trade him by then, especially if he is healthy next season. His playoff run will still be fresh, and if he doesn't injure his hand again he'll at least be a 40-45 pt skill player next year. We might even end up getting a better return than we did for Phaneuf.

Agree with that but I hope we get a better return than Phaneuf because it was bad when you think of it.

We will still need to "get rid of" Gaborik's contract (even though he has 7 points in 16 games with the Sens) and we had to retain $1,750,000 on Phaneuf for the next 3 years... We saved ~ 5 M$ over a 3 years period

I thought Nick Shore would net a better return or least be a quality cheap 4th line center for the Sens. Should have just keep him for now if a 7th was all Dorion could get.

Meanwhile, Phaneuf has 3 goals and 4 assists in 20 games in LA with 19:00 of TOI/GP. He was apparently doing well.

IMO, should have gotten more if we had to retain.
 
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Langdon Alger

Registered User
Apr 19, 2006
24,777
12,912
With all the reinstated hope I had for Ryan after the playoffs, he follows up with an 8 goal, 30 point season :/

9 goals now. Totally worth the 7.25 million he’s making this year.

Would you trade him for Brouwer and Stone? We’d probably have to retain some salary too.
 
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