Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

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slamigo

Skate or Die!
Dec 25, 2007
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How is Ryan not taking any heat on this?

Melnyk paid up. He signed the big fat contract for Ryan. Everyone was thrilled. Then Ryan never lived up to his end of the deal either because of injuries or subpar play. Now everyone is shitting on Melnyk for asking PD to dump that contract and calling Melnyk cheap. If Ryan had 60 pts, this isn’t happening.

I’m no Melnyk apologist, the guy seems sort of like a turd most days, but man he put up the money. Ryan never delivered.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,993
49,517
How is Ryan not taking any heat on this?

Melnyk paid up. He signed the big fat contract for Ryan. Everyone was thrilled. Then Ryan never lived up to his end of the deal either because of injuries or subpar play. Now everyone is ****ting on Melnyk for asking PD to dump that contract and calling Melnyk cheap. If Ryan had 60 pts, this isn’t happening.

I’m no Melnyk apologist, the guy seems sort of like a turd most days, but man he put up the money. Ryan never delivered.

Ryan has taken immense heat on here for not producing, being out of shape , being lethargic...
If Ryan had 60 pts they would not need to include him in a Karlsson trade to move him. I think that's where a lot of the current angst comes from IE Marginalizing the return on Karlsson. Give us your best anti-Ryan rant.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
15,988
9,554
The franchise generates a positive revenue stream, but is floundering in debt. .

so how is it you know this? because all in, all revenue against all expenses, suggests in most years this is not true.

remember last year? 1 goal from the cup? 9 playoff dates. he ran a 10M operating profit while operating on a shoestring.

There's nothing the remotely suggests that Melnyk's acquisition of this franchise has been cash flow positive.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
so how is it you know this? because all in, all revenue against all expenses, suggests in most years this is not true.

remember last year? 1 goal from the cup? 9 playoff dates. he ran a 10M operating profit while operating on a shoestring.

There's nothing the remotely suggests that Melnyk's acquisition of this franchise has been cash flow positive.
Forbes disagrees
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,904
How is Ryan not taking any heat on this?

Melnyk paid up. He signed the big fat contract for Ryan. Everyone was thrilled. Then Ryan never lived up to his end of the deal either because of injuries or subpar play. Now everyone is ****ting on Melnyk for asking PD to dump that contract and calling Melnyk cheap. If Ryan had 60 pts, this isn’t happening.

I’m no Melnyk apologist, the guy seems sort of like a turd most days, but man he put up the money. Ryan never delivered.

Injuries essentially derailed his career as a star player. He's still good (when not injured) but slightly overpaid.

It is a shame and there isn't anyone to blame.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
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disagrees with what?

we'v been thru this. if you have all the historical forbes data post it. don' allude to it. post it. with links.
Wondercarrot made this post in another thread. The historical nymbers are in the link provided. (You chose to ignore it)

Ottawa Senators on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List
To your 1st point, it did NOT take the team making it to the 3rd round to post a respectable profit, and yes we do have accurate numbers:
As per Forbes (i see EM fans use Forbes frequently so here it is) operating profit:

2017 $10 million
2016 $6.3
2015 $18.5
2014 $22.5
2013 $6.8
2012 $14.5
2011 $3.2
2010 -$3.8
2009 -$3.8
2008 $4.7

so in the 10 years or so Melnyk has owned the team they have posted $78.9 million in operating profit.
now your next question, "how much taxes are paid on that profit", somewhere around 26% (of course none of this includes any moving of money, tax loopholes etc that likely apply) so take 20% off that number (which im pretty sure is quite generous on my part) so before debt servicing profit after taxes was approx $60+ million
this brings us to the debt and debt servicing on the team you were so curious about, thats an interesting one isnt it?
The team & the quite new building together cost him what $125 million? what is the current debt on the team? you tell me.....is it more or is it less now?

are the season ticket holders also responsible for how poorly he has managed the debt on this team? why does he still owe what he owes, why does there seem to have been negative progress on debt reduction? why is it that we hear he has to pay nearly predatory rates for his financing?
Fortunately for the perpetually broke Melnyk he can count the almost $300 million in appreciation he has booked on paper for the value of the team right?

but yes, we should totally just accept the narrative that you are so eager to "admit to"
Wondercarrot, Mar 5, 2018
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,276
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Ottabot City
Wondercarrot made this post in another thread. The historical nymbers are in the link provided. (You chose to ignore it)

Ottawa Senators on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List
To your 1st point, it did NOT take the team making it to the 3rd round to post a respectable profit, and yes we do have accurate numbers:
As per Forbes (i see EM fans use Forbes frequently so here it is) operating profit:

2017 $10 million
2016 $6.3
2015 $18.5
2014 $22.5
2013 $6.8
2012 $14.5
2011 $3.2
2010 -$3.8
2009 -$3.8
2008 $4.7

so in the 10 years or so Melnyk has owned the team they have posted $78.9 million in operating profit.
now your next question, "how much taxes are paid on that profit", somewhere around 26% (of course none of this includes any moving of money, tax loopholes etc that likely apply) so take 20% off that number (which im pretty sure is quite generous on my part) so before debt servicing profit after taxes was approx $60+ million
this brings us to the debt and debt servicing on the team you were so curious about, thats an interesting one isnt it?
The team & the quite new building together cost him what $125 million? what is the current debt on the team? you tell me.....is it more or is it less now?

are the season ticket holders also responsible for how poorly he has managed the debt on this team? why does he still owe what he owes, why does there seem to have been negative progress on debt reduction? why is it that we hear he has to pay nearly predatory rates for his financing?
Fortunately for the perpetually broke Melnyk he can count the almost $300 million in appreciation he has booked on paper for the value of the team right?

but yes, we should totally just accept the narrative that you are so eager to "admit to"
Wondercarrot, Mar 5, 2018
He bought the team in 2003 not 2008.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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The CBA didn't allow players to talk to teams before noon on July 1st for UFA, but that didn't stop multiple All-Star caliber players from signing multiple year, ultra-complicated, bonus-laden contracts at 12:01 every single July 1st for decades.

Surely, you can't be that naive.


Clearly you did not read my post, or you did not understand it.

Or the plan was to trade Ryan and Karlsson with assurances Karlsson would extend and he wouldn't commit because his and the teams plan were to just find a way to get rid of Ryan's contract and bring Karlsson back after a season.




Karlsson's contract expires on July 1st 2019, however the Senators can talk to him (legally) about an extension beginning July 1st 2018.

Therefore any suggestion that the speculated trade talks involving Karlsson involved having him give "assurances" that he'd resign with the team he may have been traded to is false, no team, including the Senators can talk to him about an extension AKA re-signing until the last year of his contract, which begins on July 1st 2018.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,121
30,340
Clearly you did not read my post, or you did not understand it.






Karlsson's contract expires on July 1st 2019, however the Senators can talk to him (legally) about an extension beginning July 1st 2018.

Therefore any suggestion that the speculated trade talks involving Karlsson involved having him give "assurances" that he'd resign with the team he may have been traded to is false, no team, including the Senators can talk to him about an extension AKA re-signing until the last year of his contract, which begins on July 1st 2018.
I believe it was implied that said assurance would be of the "unofficial" variety. In the end, any assurance would be unenforceable but as others pointed out, unofficial, unenforceable arrangements have certainly been made in the past. Heck, alfredsson claims to have had one in place with our team, and we all know how that ended. It's like speeding, just because it's against the law doesn't mean it never happens.
 
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Stylizer1

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Jun 12, 2009
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Clearly you did not read my post, or you did not understand it.






Karlsson's contract expires on July 1st 2019, however the Senators can talk to him (legally) about an extension beginning July 1st 2018.

Therefore any suggestion that the speculated trade talks involving Karlsson involved having him give "assurances" that he'd resign with the team he may have been traded to is false, no team, including the Senators can talk to him about an extension AKA re-signing until the last year of his contract, which begins on July 1st 2018.
So let's say Vegas calls about Karlsson and says we will trade these players and picks for Karlsson if he resigns with us. Dorion picks up the phone and calls Erik's agent and asks him would Karlsson want to go there. The agent asks Karlsson and he says no and the deal dies.

How would the League find out about this? Out of the people involved in this scenario who would benefit by running to the league and saying someone was breaking the rules?

People break the law everyday in every country and the vast most get away with.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
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So let's say Vegas calls about Karlsson and says we will trade these players and picks for Karlsson if he resigns with us. Dorion picks up the phone and calls Erik's agent and asks him would Karlsson want to go there. The agent asks Karlsson and he says no and the deal dies.

How would the League find out about this? Out of the people involved in this scenario who would benefit by running to the league and saying someone was breaking the rules?

People break the law everyday in every country and the vast most get away with.


Why would Vegas trade the assets necessary to acquire EK65, based on "assurances" that are unenforceable?

If Karlsson had lead them to a Stanley Cup, decided after July 1st that what he was being offered was not what he was now worth?
What recourse would Vegas have?

People have to stop making up ridiculous scenarios in an attempt to verify a rumour.
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
30,901
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Parts Unknown
Why would Vegas trade the assets necessary to acquire EK65, based on "assurances" that are unenforceable?

If Karlsson had lead them to a Stanley Cup, decided after July 1st that what he was being offered was not what he was now worth?
What recourse would Vegas have?

Ah, so you ARE that naive.

OK, cool. At least this answers my question from yesterday.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Why would Vegas trade the assets necessary to acquire EK65, based on "assurances" that are unenforceable?

If Karlsson had lead them to a Stanley Cup, decided after July 1st that what he was being offered was not what he was now worth?
What recourse would Vegas have?

People have to stop making up ridiculous scenarios in an attempt to verify a rumour.
NCAA teams are not allowed to pay their players or use money to help recruit them right?

So therefore it never happens, right?

What a moronic position to take.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
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Teams cannot talk contracts with players before July 1st. That doesn't mean teams cannot communicate with players or their agents.

There's nothing stopping GMs from having meetings with players+agents to gauge how "happy" a player is with the current team's situation and then draw conclusions about a player's willingness to sign based on that. We know for a fact, Dorion and Karlsson had a meeting the morning of the trade deadline as both men have mentioned it.

There is nothing stopping Dorion from asking Karlsson and his representation where Karlsson would ideally want to be traded to. That's not tampering. Any team acquiring Karlsson will probably have some sort of assurance that he'll extend.

As far as cap hit goes, most teams know what to expect to pay him, because all the comparable numbers are public knowledge. Any team acquiring Karlsson is probably gearing up to pay him anywhere from 10.5-12.5 million on a 7 year deal.
 

Stylizer1

SENSimillanaire
Jun 12, 2009
19,276
3,689
Ottabot City
Teams cannot talk contracts with players before July 1st. That doesn't mean teams cannot communicate with players or their agents.

There's nothing stopping GMs from having meetings with players+agents to gauge how "happy" a player is with the current team's situation and then draw conclusions about a player's willingness to sign based on that. We know for a fact, Dorion and Karlsson had a meeting the morning of the trade deadline as both men have mentioned it.

There is nothing stopping Dorion from asking Karlsson and his representation where Karlsson would ideally want to be traded to. That's not tampering. Any team acquiring Karlsson will probably have some sort of assurance that he'll extend.

As far as cap hit goes, most teams know what to expect to pay him, because all the comparable numbers are public knowledge. Any team acquiring Karlsson is probably gearing up to pay him anywhere from 10.5-12.5 million on a 7 year deal.
Even a fork could understand this.
 
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