Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

[Stylizer1]

Down the stretch without Bobby in the lineup we are 7-0.

If we leave him off the roster for the playoffs maybe he asks for a trade?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think he just slows everything down. He played well since returning but something about him definitely throws his line out team off kilter (spelling?) when he's on.

 

[Tuna99]

I think he just slows everything down. He played well since returning but something about him definitely throws his line out team off kilter (spelling?) when he's on.

I know the press is mad at us for being thankful Ryan is not in the lineup, they cheer the person, we cheer for the player - and the evidence is in, when Ryan's in the lineup he doesn't fit anywhere.

Garrioche said last night "he's an NHL hcokey player" how sad is that? That's what Alfie said when Redden was sent to the AHL. Ryan is an NHL hockey player, but it seems to me he's one of those overpaid players that floats around bad teams his entire career and is never on successful teams.

Just my 2 cents, but it's clear we are better without him in the lineup. The hit he got injured on, does Ryan have any core strength, he looked like a rag doll on that play, if he did his core training like he's supposed to he woudn't have his head disconnected from his hips and his feet, he looked out of control on a routine play and he fell about 4 times that game, his balance is terrible.

 

[Six Assets]

CMac-Turris-Ryan line was awesome. Hopefully they can gel again.

We'll have solid depth once Ryan and Smith are back. If only White could replace Kelly.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Down the stretch without Bobby in the lineup we are 7-0.

If we leave him off the roster for the playoffs maybe he asks for a trade?

Don't get my hopes up, bro.

I just wish he comes into playoffs healthy and someone who is not needed to produce and he scores key points but at this point this is a distant wish.

 

[pm88]

This is what ticks me off. Does management really think that local guys like Boro, Brassard, Ceci etc are drawing fans out to the stadium? It's mind boggling.

I would certainly give Ceci a chance to keep developing. He's really young. Boro is OK as muscle out there...not exactly a huge a fan of Brassard though

 

[Benjamin]

If I were GM, Ryan would be scratched for the remainder of the year, told to stay home for all of next season and bought out in the summer of 2018. We're clearly better without him. The buyout would be 8 years with a manageable caphit.

https://capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/bobby-ryan

Assuming he's untradeable.

 

[aragorn]

This is what ticks me off. Does management really think that local guys like Boro, Brassard, Ceci etc are drawing fans out to the stadium? It's mind boggling.

The short answer to your questions is yes. Do you think that guys like Ryan who are not scoring & making $7 mil, or Dzingel who can't finish if his life depended on it or a guy who played in the Swiss league Pyatt who are not from the city are drawing fans to the stadium? Most home town fans appreciate local talent, most teams try & collect some local flavour on their team, look at Minny. I also think that the majority of fans in this town are bandwagon fans who only go to games when the team is doing really well as the Redblacks have been doing & the shine is off the Sens these days for whatever reason. There are a lot of people who say they are Sens fans who only know a handful of players on the team. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for the Sens these days, you rarely see any more Sens flags on cars or people wearing Sens stuff unless they are at the game. And home town talent does bring out some fans but elite talent brings out more.

There are a lot of reasons why fan attendance is down this yr, here's a few.

1. The Redblacks were in the Grey Cup in their second yr & won it in their 3rd yr in the league & have taken quite a few sports fans in this city over to their side.
2. The new Federal Government Pay System Phoenix which has been a nightmare & hasn't pay some employees in town for over 6 moths or more or completely screwed up their pay cheques must account for some fan loss in this city.
3. Prices are simply too high & the cost of living in general is just too high for a lot of folks especially those with families. Hydro costs in Ontario are through the roof & a lot of families simply can no longer justify buying tickets when they can stay at home to watch games. I would guess that every yr the number of casual ticket purchasers are going down.
4. There are still a number of fans in this city who do not live in the West End who hate driving to games & how difficult it is to get out of the arena parking lot & the log jam after games on the Queensway.
5. IMO 3/4 of the hockey fan base in the Ottawa/Gatineau area are fans of other teams & only come to games that their team is playing in.
6. For whatever reason there just isn't & hasn't been a buzz around this team all yr regardless of all the things this team is doing & going through. A few yrs ago when they were fighting for a playoff spot the whole town was buzzing & there was lots of talk about the team & players. It's not like that this yr at all & maybe all of those reasons above are the reason but the organization itself seems to not be doing anything to promote the team either. Some of the moves Melnyk made this yr I don't think has helped considering how popular Cyril Leeder was in this town & the story of him being sued may have hurt some ticket sales as well. It's not looking good, that's for sure.

My solution: would be if Melnyk could sell the team to a person or group with deeper pockets who would also promise to keep the team in Ottawa. The next thing they should do is have retired players like Alfredsson, Phillips, Kelly & as many popular players who still live around the area promote the team a lot more. They need much more of an advertising blitz to start the season & throughout the season but the most important thing they can do is WIN. They have to sooner rather than later win a cup, this town wants a winner & they may have given up on this team. Winning or getting into a position to win it all would help bring back a lot of fans.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

The short answer to your questions is yes. Do you think that guys like Ryan who are not scoring & making $7 mil, or Dzingel who can't finish if his life depended on it or a guy who played in the Swiss league Pyatt who are not from the city are drawing fans to the stadium? Most home town fans appreciate local talent, most teams try & collect some local flavour on their team, look at Minny. I also think that the majority of fans in this town are bandwagon fans who only go to games when the team is doing really well as the Redblacks have been doing & the shine is off the Sens these days for whatever reason. There are a lot of people who say they are Sens fans who only know a handful of players on the team. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for the Sens these days, you rarely see any more Sens flags on cars or people wearing Sens stuff unless they are at the game. And home town talent does bring out some fans but elite talent brings out more.

There are a lot of reasons why fan attendance is down this yr, here's a few.

1. The Redblacks were in the Grey Cup in their second yr & won it in their 3rd yr in the league & have taken quite a few sports fans in this city over to their side.
2. The new Federal Government Pay System Phoenix which has been a nightmare & hasn't pay some employees in town for over 6 moths or more or completely screwed up their pay cheques must account for some fan loss in this city.
3. Prices are simply too high & the cost of living in general is just too high for a lot of folks especially those with families. Hydro costs in Ontario are through the roof & a lot of families simply can no longer justify buying tickets when they can stay at home to watch games. I would guess that every yr the number of casual ticket purchasers are going down.
4. There are still a number of fans in this city who do not live in the West End who hate driving to games & how difficult it is to get out of the arena parking lot & the log jam after games on the Queensway.
5. IMO 3/4 of the hockey fan base in the Ottawa/Gatineau area are fans of other teams & only come to games that their team is playing in.
6. For whatever reason there just isn't & hasn't been a buzz around this team all yr regardless of all the things this team is doing & going through. A few yrs ago when they were fighting for a playoff spot the whole town was buzzing & there was lots of talk about the team & players. It's not like that this yr at all & maybe all of those reasons above are the reason but the organization itself seems to not be doing anything to promote the team either. Some of the moves Melnyk made this yr I don't think has helped considering how popular Cyril Leeder was in this town & the story of him being sued may have hurt some ticket sales as well. It's not looking good, that's for sure.

My solution: would be if Melnyk could sell the team to a person or group with deeper pockets who would also promise to keep the team in Ottawa. The next thing they should do is have retired players like Alfredsson, Phillips, Kelly & as many popular players who still live around the area promote the team a lot more. They need much more of an advertising blitz to start the season & throughout the season but the most important thing they can do is WIN. They have to sooner rather than later win a cup, this town wants a winner & they may have given up on this team. Winning or getting into a position to win it all would help bring back a lot of fans.

You want buzz around the team? It all starts with the players. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "let's go catch the Sens game. Boro and Ceci are playing!".

Talent draws fans. Fans bring in revenue. Revenue allows management to lure bigger talent. With talent you wouldn't need to market as hard either.

Kanata wasn't an issue when we were winning and guess what? We had talent on that roster and how many of them were home grown?

We have hard-core fans. Unfortunately the number of hard-core fans isn't very high.

 

[Agent Zub]

Ryan being outplayed by Tom ****ing Pyatt.

 

[utah]

If I were GM, Ryan would be scratched for the remainder of the year, told to stay home for all of next season and bought out in the summer of 2018. We're clearly better without him. The buyout would be 8 years with a manageable caphit.

https://capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/bobby-ryan

Assuming he's untradeable.

Buying Ryan out saves the club $9 million, but...you lose Ryan for 5 years.

Now you have to replace him. The $9 million you just saved, isn't likely going to get you a player equal to Bobby Ryan.....at $1.8 million a year (total $9 million), over 5 years.

Team ends up putting out the same dollars anyways.

 

[Benjamin]

Buying Ryan out saves the club $9 million, but...you lose Ryan for 5 years.

Now you have to replace him. The $9 million you just saved, isn't likely going to get you a player equal to Bobby Ryan.....at $1.8 million a year (total $9 million), over 5 years.

Team ends up putting out the same dollars anyways.

Or put it towards re-signing current players and have the extra spot taken by ELC's.

 

[Uchiha]

Now you have to replace him. The $9 million you just saved, isn't likely going to get you a player equal to Bobby Ryan.....at $1.8 million a year (total $9 million), over 5 years.

I could get a player better than Ryan for under 3M.

 

[Langdon Alger]

If that's the case just buy him out.

Won't happen in a million years.

Apparently we're too cheap?

Nothing to do with being cheap. Even a team with deep pockets probably wouldn't buy out that contract. You'd be paying him for the next ten years.

Offer Vegas our first rounder in this year's draft to take him in the expansion draft. They probably don't do it, but I'd still make the offer.

 

[Stylizer1]

Buying Ryan out saves the club $9 million, but...you lose Ryan for 5 years.

Now you have to replace him. The $9 million you just saved, isn't likely going to get you a player equal to Bobby Ryan.....at $1.8 million a year (total $9 million), over 5 years.

Team ends up putting out the same dollars anyways.

You use that money to extend Karlsson, Stone, Turris.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I vote we rename this thread Stylizer1 keeps track of every single imaginable stat that involves (or does not) Bobby Ryan.

You are obsessed, you need help.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If I were GM, Ryan would be scratched for the remainder of the year, told to stay home for all of next season and bought out in the summer of 2018. We're clearly better without him. The buyout would be 8 years with a manageable caphit.

https://capfriendly.com/buyout_calculator/bobby-ryan

Assuming he's untradeable.

Every contract is tradable.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Ryan's buyout would be 10 years, not 8. The cap hit is irrelevant to Ottawa, what they care about is salary as they are presumably not a cap team. With that in mind, both the salary and the cap hit when it comes to buying out Ryan aren't all that manageable. The fact that a chunk of his salary is paid out in a signing bonus lowers the incentive for the Senators to buy him out as they aren't able to buyout the chunk paid out in signing bonuses.

That means buying out Ryan makes no sense because of his signing bonuses not being able to be bought out. When you count the cost of a replacement body, we only save just about 3M per season for the remaining 5 years of his deal. At first glance, saving 3M might sound okay....but then you have to consider on top of that 4M on the books for 5 years, the Senators will be on the hook for almost 2M per season for FIVE MORE SEASONS beyond when his contract was originally supposed to expire. Basically 4M for 5 seasons (buyout cap hit+replacement roster player cost) and then almost 2M for 5 years after that for 10 seasons combined.....

It just makes no sense especially when we know there was a market for Ryan prior to the deadline if we take back another presumably bad contract (as per AJ Jakubec of TSN 1200 stating a contender liked Ryan better than their "top 6" forward).

At that point, retaining over 3M a season to get rid of him and send him to another team at 4M makes more sense because we'd at least potentially get something of value for Ryan at 4M. Or even if that isn't true and we had to give him away for future considerations at 4M, we would be on the hook for the same amount as if we bought him out for the next 5 years but wouldn't have to deal with almost 2M on the books for 5 years after that.

 

[King Karlsson]

Give Las Vegas a 2nd or a prospect + Ryan (a la Brock Osweiler) to get rid of his contract and make us no longer have to worry about expansion draft

Or just ship him to any team that has a ton of cap space and won't be contending any time soon. His contract needs to be gone ASAP so we can pay the players that actually matter to this team

 

[Langdon Alger]

Every contract is tradable.

Sure, I mean we could trade him to LA for Gaborik and Brown. Just because a contract is tradeable doesn't mean you're going to like having to take a bad contract or two back.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Give Las Vegas a 2nd or a prospect + Ryan (a la Brock Osweiler) to get rid of his contract and make us no longer have to worry about expansion draft

Or just ship him to any team that has a ton of cap space and won't be contending any time soon. His contract needs to be gone ASAP so we can pay the players that actually matter to this team

The thing about the Osweiler trade is that the NFL doesn't have fully guaranteed contracts. With the Osweiler trade, the Browns gave up absolutely nothing because they were not going to be able to accomplish reaching the cap floor through free agency and the way Osweiler's contract is structured this season is his last season where he has big money owed that is guaranteed. If/when the Browns cut him, they'll have very little consequences cap wise beyond this season.

On a side note, they also could trade him and get something of value for him if another team wants him as a backup or reclamation project. This is because in the NFL, restructuring of contracts is a thing. The Browns could work with Osweiler to restructure his salary this year in the form of a signing bonus which would allow it to be paid fully by the Browns in one shot, leaving the cap hit on the Browns books and Osweiler free to be traded to another more cap strapped team without that team having to take on his cap hit.

So it would almost be like if Ryan had one more year left on his deal.

If Vegas is actually considering taking Ryan in the expansion draft, a 2nd would be enough. If they don't want Ryan, I think it takes our 1st to get them thinking about it. If you're in the dump Ryan at all costs territory, Vegas is the Senators best opportunity because they begin their team with complete cap flexibility, have to hit 40M+ in the expansion draft and eventually the cap floor, and they won't have many high scoring forwards available to them. Yes, I know Ryan hasn't been high scoring this year, but if they were to acquire him they'd likely do so hoping he could reach his 20 goal/55 point "standard" again.

Who knows....maybe the Sens already have a deal in place to get Vegas to take or not take one of their guys.

 

[playasRus]

You want buzz around the team? It all starts with the players. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "let's go catch the Sens game. Boro and Ceci are playing!".

Talent draws fans. Fans bring in revenue. Revenue allows management to lure bigger talent. With talent you wouldn't need to market as hard either.

Kanata wasn't an issue when we were winning and guess what? We had talent on that roster and how many of them were home grown?

We have hard-core fans. Unfortunately the number of hard-core fans isn't very high.

We have a Hart and perennial Norris nominee on our team...

If I lived in Ottawa, I'd definitely hit up a game or two. Talent or product isn't the problem. Price and location would be for me.

 

[King Karlsson]

The thing about the Osweiler trade is that the NFL doesn't have fully guaranteed contracts. With the Osweiler trade, the Browns gave up absolutely nothing because they were not going to be able to accomplish reaching the cap floor through free agency and the way Osweiler's contract is structured this season is his last season where he has big money owed that is guaranteed. If/when the Browns cut him, they'll have very little consequences cap wise beyond this season.

Yup I know, I'm a Texans fan. Just spitballing ideas because there is no chance we buy him out and I can't see any team actually trading for Ryan. I really don't want to be stuck with both Ryan and Phaneuf's contracts when the time comes to re-up Turris/Karlsson/Stone

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Sure, I mean we could trade him to LA for Gaborik and Brown. Just because a contract is tradeable doesn't mean you're going to like having to take a bad contract or two back.

lol, the trade wouldn't be that bad. That would be a massive favor to LA to take on those two.

Maybe a trade with Philly for MacDonald? Add in a sweetner like Paul or Gagne? Philly takes a chance Ryan is inspired by being on the hometown team, and they move a D so their kids have space to move up next year.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

lol, the trade wouldn't be that bad. That would be a massive favor to LA to take on those two.

Maybe a trade with Philly for MacDonald? Add in a sweetner like Paul or Gagne? Philly takes a chance Ryan is inspired by being on the hometown team, and they move a D so their kids have space to move up next year.

Ryan for Gaborik would never happen unless LA actually thinks Ryan can work out as a reclamation project because Gaborik's contract bought out by LA wouldn't be a big enough burden for them to think taking on a 7.25M cap hit would be a solution. But if they like Ryan, they might justify dumping Gaborik as a way to get Ryan for free because on average buying out Gaborik would cost them well over 2M (average buyout cap hit+replacement NHL roster player cost) which could be looked at as a sunk cost to subsidize Ryan's cap hit which means they'd be getting Ryan at around a 5M cap hit since sending Gaborik to Ottawa would avoid having to buy him out+pay a replacement NHLer 650k+.

If the Sens decided they needed to get rid of Ryan at all costs in the most economical way possible, Ryan for Gaborik would be a dream come true. Gaborik would only be owed 16M in real money over 4 years as his contract was front loaded by LA. Ryan would make almost twice that over that 4 year span and still have a very expensive 5th year left. This is a similar cap vs real money salary type trade ala Brassard and Phaneuf that only works because a cap team (LA in this case) front loaded a contract so that the remaining money is much less than the actual cap hit. Gaborik's hit is roughly 5Mx4 remaining years vs Ryan at 7.25Mx5 remaining years.

Before considering the cost of a replacement player, with Gaborik the Sens could buy him out for about 1.3M in real money a year over 8 years. So from a budget perspective, that would be amazing if the Senators are looking to get a payment plan on getting out of a 7.5M player they no longer want.