Bobby Holik: "Owners are Liars"

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Poignant Discussion*

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Jul 18, 2003
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The Iconoclast said:
Yup, but my conscience would bother me. I would especially feel horrible if my salary contributed to the potential downfall of an entire industry. Hmmmm, I wonder how all those dot com millionaires feel about what they did to the compueter industry? That would be an interesting series of interviews to see.

********
 

Poignant Discussion*

I tell it like it is
Jul 18, 2003
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triggrman said:
So no one has ever used Holik as a comparison in salary arbritration hearings?


They can't, he was UNRESTRICTED. Therefore how can someone thats not UNRESTRICTED compare contracts to someone that is UNRESTRICTED

Geeze some of you people just don't get it and is one of the big reasons I never come into the business section much. The owners have done a wonderful job of brainwashing fans

The owners DID this to themselves....the owners have made the FANS pay bundles for their spending ways

Now the players are the bad guys, when it wasn't them who offered any 2nd line player a 9 million dollar contract?

The problem with the NHL was ego driven owners. Boston pays Lapointe 5 million just to stick it to the Detroit owner...but its the players fault

McNall decides Wayne is worth the same salary as other "top stars" in more profitable leagues...but its the players fault

Carolina decides to offer the dumbest contract ever offered to Fedorov FORCING Detroit to up the Salary scale on Restricted free agents...but its the players fault

Tampa Bay gives Brad Richards a terrible 2nd contract that has pushed 2nd contracts up huge (something even baseball does not do)...but its the players fault

Boston offers "bonuses" to Thorton to circumvent the rookie salary cap which has raised the bar...but its the players fault

Ottawa gives Daigle an obscene amount of money...but its the players fault

The Islanders offer the dumbest contract in the history of the NHL to Yashin...but its the players fault

Whats funny are the examples I am giving are teams that are crying poor now

Maybe the Owners brainwashing can fool some of you people, but I like to think I can see through BS as well as anyone
 

YellHockey*

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The Iconoclast said:
Yup, but my conscience would bother me. I would especially feel horrible if my salary contributed to the potential downfall of an entire industry. Hmmmm, I wonder how all those dot com millionaires feel about what they did to the compueter industry? That would be an interesting series of interviews to see.

This an absolutely idiotic analogy to make. The dot com bust was due to business plans that never had a chance of making money. They were launched to make money on IPO's and capital gains on share prices. They were not bankrupted because they paid programmers and other techies too much money.

The computer industry still exists. A lot of companies that were not profitable went bust.
 

me2

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Digger12 said:
Whether it's true or not is rather irrelevant...but personal attacks in negotiations do NOTHING to resolve the issues. It's bush league and highly unprofessional. It only serves to illustrate why players have agents to represent them in arbitration hearings...they seem to be ineffective at keeping their feelings out of a business negotiation.


Not only that it just stiffens the resolve of the owners to fight them.

Sather is going to be thinking: I gave that guy $9m a year and he calls me a lying cheating ******. Well **** him I hope we cancel the season and then we'll see how much he enjoys getting $0/y.
 

me2

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triggrman said:
So no one has ever used Holik as a comparison in salary arbritration hearings?


Only RFA contracts are directly usable in arbitration.

The problem with whacky UFA contracts is the flow on effect on expectations even if they aren't directly applicable. One thing leads to another. A guy who is a 31 year olda UFA gets $4m, so a 30 years RFA says give that $3.5m or I walk next year and gets it when he should only get $3m and he gets it because he can't be replaced by a UFA for under $4m A 28 or 29 RFA says well that RFA got $3.5m so I want $3.5m, etc etc etc.

Everything affects everything directly or indirectly, 6 degrees of seperation and all that guff. Its a very, very inbred system.


The Holik contract was just plain nuts though. It had very little direct affect on any other contract. It was just plain out there in pixieland.
 

CarlRacki

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Feb 9, 2004
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And some wonder why the players get so little support from the public.
Exhibit A: Bobby Holik.
In a place called the real world, an employee who notoriously underperforms for an exorbinant salary, calls out co-workers in the media and then publicly labels the people who sign his checks "liars" does not have a job for long.
Just more proof many of the players totally have lost touch with reality.
 

me2

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CarlRacki said:
And some wonder why the players get so little support from the public.
Exhibit A: Bobby Holik.
In a place called the real world, an employee who notoriously underperforms for an exorbinant salary, calls out co-workers in the media and then publicly labels the people who sign his checks "liars" does not have a job for long.
Just more proof many of the players totally have lost touch with reality.

Makes you wonder if the Rangers could sack him and dump his contract for nix. I wonder what clauses they have in there.
 

myrocketsgotcracked

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Thunderstruck said:
What Holik makes is irrelevant.

The fact that both sides will lie through their teeth to gain an advantage is self-evident.

It is stupid for Holik to insult the owners at this point in the process, but no one said hockey players were smart or able to discern their best interests.

exactly what i was thinking!
but for him to come out and say things like this serves no purpose, i think its best for players to keep their mouth shut in this situation. everytime me and my buddies hear a comment by roenick, mccabe, modano, chelios, etc we just do this :shakehead:
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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loudi94 said:
The signing did affect the league negatively because it drove up the price of players in his similar talent pool. It would take a concerted effort on the part of all GM's and owners to prevent this situation from happening again. I don't think they can without being accused of collusion.

I don't really see Holik's signing drove up anything in the league at all. Yes, Holik was signed for $9 million, but Jarome Iginla, a vastly superior player, is paid less than Holik. His contract was signed after Holik's 'landmark' signing. The cost of a Peter Forsberg did not double to $20 million because Holik got paid $9 million. Joe Thornton's salary is still significantly lower than Holik's. He's a much better player. Keith Primeau, a similar player to Holik and a UFA, was not resigned to a $9 million a year deal. He was signed to 4 years at only $17 million. Todd Bertuzzi is paid nowhere near as much as $9 million. Guys like Rob Niedermayer and Michal Handzus didn't get significant raises after Holik was signed.

If anything, the Holik, Kasparaitis, Turgeon, Guerin and other insane contracts can be seen more as abberitions more than precedents.
 

MojoJojo

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VeddarRants said:
It's pretty self explainatory, is it not? His salary is an example of why the NHL needs a new system... guys like Holik should NOT be making 9 million a season. One of the reasons the NHL is in dire straights is salaries like Holik's - overpaying for less than elite talent.

If you can't connect the dots and see how Holik's salary affects the NHL as a whole, then I'm sorry, I can't help you.

Can you explain HOW his salary DOESN'T affect the NHL instead of blindly saying it doesn't without any explaination?

Imagine you are a GM. You have a budget. You have certain needs to fill in the off season, lets say a checking center. You have a pool of rookie talent to draw from, or you can hit the free agent market. There is a player you want, but unfortunately three other teams want as well. The price becomes too high, so you sign one of your rookies instead. Its not as if signing Bobby Holik has done anything for the Rangers.

As far as the 9 mil as a basis for salary negotiations, lets see if John Madden's salary does the same thing. If he goes around demanding 9 mil because thats what BH got, he would be without a contract. Fedorov tried this, and wound up taking a paycut because no one wanted him for $10 mil. Owners set the price by offering contracts to the players, the players cant demand anything really, their only power is that of the free market.
 

I.am.ca

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If the players think the owners lie soo much then retire, leave the game, the owners will own the teams and will always "lie" regardless so why are the idiots going to stand for it? Go and play in europe for a couple hundred thousand and live ur sorry lives there and go screw yourself nhlpa members.

I don't get why the owners even put up with the NHLPA's utter stupidity, find a way to ice the team with replacement players and screw the NHLPA, watch them slowly snap and give in to a hard cap and start to play again, i want this replacement player thing to happen soo badly to finally shut up the NHLPA and get them to swallow their pride and give in to the hard cap.

I could care less if they go and play in europe, i'll watch the Penguins, Flames, Canucks..etc with replacement players and new young guys that want the chance to play and will gladly accept a cap of some sort and play hockey for the love of the game and not to land a big time deal to buy a ferrari and slack off on the ice. Tired of these jackass players coming out crying about how the owners are screwing them.

Holik should use 40 bucks out of that 9million he made and get his damn unibrow waxed, Holik ya damn ugly freak.
 

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
If you were in his shoes you would have done the same...he didnt ask for the money Sather gave it to him:
This I don't know. I might take the million dollars less a year and play for a team that doesn't suck.
 
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