Bobby Holik: "Owners are Liars"

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Son of Steinbrenner

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Jul 9, 2003
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The Iconoclast said:
Yup, but my conscience would bother me. I would especially feel horrible if my salary contributed to the potential downfall of an entire industry. Hmmmm, I wonder how all those dot com millionaires feel about what they did to the compueter industry? That would be an interesting series of interviews to see.
i doubt your conscience would bother you when your family is taken care of for life. how has holiks salary contributed to the downfall of the entire league? shouldn't the people that feel horrible about that be the owners that bid for holik and the rangers who signed him? i bet the dot.com millonaires that got out before there companies went under feel pretty good counting there money right now.
 

loudi94

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Bear in mind Holik was an eyelash away from being a Red Wing. The deal was in place until Holik told the Wings he needed to hear from New York before signing. The Wings pulled out of the deal immediately saying his character (money before winning) was not the type they wanted for their team. The Rangers didn't care about the character and signed him. The results speak for themselves. Holik is not to blame for the huge $$ it's the Rags. The signing did affect the league negatively because it drove up the price of players in his similar talent pool. It would take a concerted effort on the part of all GM's and owners to prevent this situation from happening again. I don't think they can without being accused of collusion.
 

Son of Steinbrenner

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loudi94 said:
Bear in mind Holik was an eyelash away from being a Red Wing. The deal was in place until Holik told the Wings he needed to hear from New York before signing. The Wings pulled out of the deal immediately saying his character (money before winning) was not the type they wanted for their team. The Rangers didn't care about the character and signed him. The results speak for themselves. Holik is not to blame for the huge $$ it's the Rags. The signing did affect the league negatively because it drove up the price of players in his similar talent pool. It would take a concerted effort on the part of all GM's and owners to prevent this situation from happening again. I don't think they can without being accused of collusion.
how is it just the rangers fault if the red wings, stars, leafs, and devils all came close the rangers offer?

holik was smart to hear all offers before signing he had a winning lottery ticket why wouldn't he check all the numbers first!

the rangers are not the only team to hand out dangerous contracts. to pin the blame on the rangers alone is flat out wrong. :teach:
 

PB37

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Lexicon Devil said:
No it isn't.



Why shouldn't Holik be making $9 million? If the Rangers are dumb enough to pay him that, then why should you care?

The only reason it would potentially matter is if it triggered league-wide inflation. But that only happens with RFAs. Signing a player like Brad Richards to too much money triggers league-wide inflation. Signing Holik doesn't.



Again, no explanation given. I'm beginning to think that you can't connect the dots of your own argument.



Simple. UFA signings don't cause salary inflation because they can't be used as comparables by players in arbitration or players holding out. Ottawa could sign Shaun Van Allen to a $20 million contract tomorrow and it wouldn't compel anybody else to give their benchwarmers the same. The only contracts that trigger league-wide inflation are to RFAs.

Are you kidding me??? Of course people should care what Holik is making...it's just one example of an inflated salaries around the NHL. It's because of the current system where certain owners feel the need to overpay for talent is why there is no hockey at the moment.

I've never said Holik's salary has inflated others. I'm using Holik's salary as an example of an overpayed hockey player, which there is plenty around the league. That's one of the many problems that needs to be changed.

Again, if you can't connect the dots yourself and see how Holik's salary ISN'T part of the plague that's hurting the NHL, then you really need to get yourself a clue.
 

Anksun

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Lexicon Devil said:
Yearly supply and demand sets the market for UFAs. Past signings are irrelevant.



None of them get it. Everybody wants as much money as they can get and have always wanted as much money as they can get. What Holik signed for is irrelevant. All that matters is how much the teams are currently willing to pay.

Now that's just plain wrong. Past signings are as important as any other points when new contracts negociation comes. If you really think a contract like Holiks one has not help at least a good bunch of players in their arguments, you're delusionnal.

Of course supply and demand set the market but big contracts like this set the Overall market just little higher every time. A guy sign for 8-9 millions and is a 3rd liner. The next one is not gonna get this automaticly but all of a sudden: he wants 3.5 and not 3 anymore. And because the teams want a guy and the other is just gone for 8-9 millions, all of a sudden they are ok with going with a 2.5 and not 2M anymore. If you check all the reports after those contracts are done, you'll find quotes as: "nice signing hey, 3M is ok looks at Holiks contract (or others)" Everybody forget the exact same player would have been worth 2.5M and not 3M 2 months ago.

Isnt a very very basic example and much more stuffs comes into the equation but in overall my point is: the overall market is set by BIG contracts...

Because of 10 of those big contracts (that are not market value for a 2nd-3rd liner, etc...), The average salary take something you might consider a small high (let's say from 1.25M to 1.35M which is not a lot) but it means every single players who consider themselves better than average WILL wants (and get) the average and more and so on. This is to happen but those big contracts are putting this average salary to the top faster than any market who wants to make money can take... I which i could speak english better so my point would be so much more well explain, anyways i hope the general idea is contain in this text.
 

The Frugal Gourmet

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I'm not going to get into the debate about what money Holik does or does not deserve, but the fact is I can scarcely stomach absurd ponderings such as his direct statement that *CLEARLY* the league is just out to start all over again with different players. Not gonna buy it. A ridiculous insult to my intelligence, frankly. We all know what the league is aiming for. To get back to making money as soon as possible without reaching an agreement that screws their future. Just like the other side of the fence, frankly.

And to insinuate there's something more deeply sinister at work is ridiculous.
 

I in the Eye

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Dec 14, 2002
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Holik's clearly frustrated - probably said it in the heat of the moment... He perhaps regrets his comments now...

This thing is not only frustrating for us fans, but it must also be frustrating for the players and the owners...

The media pokes a stick during interviews, and then waits for the guy they're interviewing to snap... Makes for a great story... The Canadian sports media is desperate for bull**** like this right now... They've got advertisers and sponsors, and with no NHL hockey being played, their best product is currently controversy and speculation...

When it comes to getting info right now about the CBA, believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear... The media is grasping at straws...
 

Trottier

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Lexicon Devil said:
Who cares how much he makes? Everything he said is entirely true.

It's called "cla$$ envy," LD.

The begrudging an individual their right to earn as much as possible, be it a million-dollar player, a billionaire owner or a hotdog stand concessionaire. Or, implying that since they make an exorbitant amount of money, they should not have the same rights to express themselves as an "average" someone making a lesser salary.

Truly sad to read, regardless of which side one falls in these CBA negotiations. Unfortunately, it rears its ugly head often round these parts. Human nature, I guess.
 

Kaiped Krusader

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Jul 1, 2004
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Rylan up the Opposition
I'm personally not the least bit jealous of Holik or any other hockey player making a lot of money. Your backhanded jibe at those criticizing Holik are pointless because many of the owners (if not most) are much better off than almost all the players. If there was class envy at play, why would I side with an owner over a player?

Common sense just tells me that overall player salaries need to deflate some so the league can remain viable financially. Holik is the poster boy for out-of-control spending and I'll gladly point it out whenever he opens his big potato masher to say something stupid like he did today.
 

John Flyers Fan

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loudi94 said:
Bear in mind Holik was an eyelash away from being a Red Wing. The deal was in place until Holik told the Wings he needed to hear from New York before signing. The Wings pulled out of the deal immediately saying his character (money before winning) was not the type they wanted for their team. The Rangers didn't care about the character and signed him. The results speak for themselves. Holik is not to blame for the huge $$ it's the Rags. The signing did affect the league negatively because it drove up the price of players in his similar talent pool. It would take a concerted effort on the part of all GM's and owners to prevent this situation from happening again. I don't think they can without being accused of collusion.

The Rangers only won the battle for the services of Holik. Add in the Leafs, and Devils for sure that were willing to go at least $8 million.
 

HckyFght*

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Lexicon Devil said:
Holik's exorbitant salary affected noone but himself and the Rangers.


And therein lies the crux of the entire perception problem.
-HckyFght!
 

Trottier

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Kaiped Krusader said:
I'm personally not the least bit jealous of Holik or any other hockey player making a lot of money. Your backhanded jibe at those criticizing Holik...

It wasn't backhanded. It was direct and forehanded. ;) A high-minded goal of strengthening the league's fiscal health is commendable. Calling guys - any guys - names for wanting to protect their earnings is not.

But alas, my comment was "pointless", says you. Meanwhile "third-line bum" is instructive commentary, one supposes.
 

quat

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Sure I'll take your huge paychecks, but you're all just a bunch of dirty lying cheats. Hmm. One doesn't have to actually envy Holik's money in order to see his opinion is rather difficult to swallow.
 

mooseOAK*

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I think that one of the biggest lies told by an owner was justification for signing Holik to that contract.
 

YellHockey*

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The Iconoclast said:
Man, I wish you were a player agent. We wouldn't be in this mess at all. Unfortunately all agents follow just the opposite view you have and will use the Holik contract to their advantage to extort as much out of a team as possible. That's the way the game is played. Holik's salary is an albatros around the neck of every club in the league.


And you would know this how?

Are you employed by an NHL franchise or are you just talking out of your behind again?
 

A Good Flying Bird*

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NYVanfan said:
Unreal... this from the guy who makes 9 million a season as a checking center on one of the worst teams in the NHL.

If ever there was one player who's the poster boy for how badly screwed up it's this guy.

Couldn't agree more. Unless you wanna count Marty Lapointe. Alexei Yashin. Uwe Krupp. Bill Guerin. Ed Belfour. Curtis Joseph. Jaromir Jagr. Keith Tkachuk. Need I go on.
People need to stop demonizing players who did what ANY right-minded human being would do.
Except for Yashin. That guy deserves everything he gets. Even then, you've gotta question the credibility of the guy who signed him, knowing his track record.
 

Jasper

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Mar 16, 2002
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I wonder if Holik looked at Levitt's report and then did his own three page audit?

I'm sure a genius like Booby can base his comments on HARD, SOLID facts!!
 

Lexicon Devil

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Apr 21, 2002
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Agents always try to get as much as they can for their clients when they hit the open market at age 31. For most of them, it's the only chance they'll get in their career to cash in like that. Does Holik's contract make them any more determined to maximize their client's earnings? How does that make sense?

Ultimately, UFA contracts come down to how much teams are willing to pay these players. Unlike RFAs, nobody ever forces these teams, and there can't be negative consequences like holdouts if they don't pay up.

So you're saying that Holik's contract has made other teams willing to pay a higher price for UFAs? I can't see that - why would other teams follow the Rangers off the cliff? Or were these teams already willing to pay that price, but the Holik contract has made player agents more effective in negotiating higher contracts for their clients? I can't see that. That argument is predicated on the fact that GMs are terrible negotiators.
 

YellHockey*

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Steve L said:
Didnt you read about the NHLPAs points system and dictations on which players should go to arbitration to gain the most money?

Didn't you read the previous CBA which clearly specified that contracts like the one Holik signed with the Rangers could not be used for arbitration?
 

Lexicon Devil

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Didnt you read about the NHLPAs points system and dictations on which players should go to arbitration to gain the most money?

We're not talking about arbitration. There is no question that big contracts to RFAs are inflationary because they can be used as arbitration comparables. That isn't in doubt. Brad Richards' contract was inflationary.

We're talking about UFAs, who can never be used as arbitration comparables. Bobby Holik's contract was not inflationary - unless you want to argue that somehow his contract encouraged other teams to overspend on free agents (makes no sense), or that his contract empowered other player agents in their negotations (makes no sense - is predicated on the fact that GMs are horrible negotiators with little willpower).
 

SENSible1*

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Lexicon Devil said:
We're not talking about arbitration. There is no question that big contracts to RFAs are inflationary because they can be used as arbitration comparables. That isn't in doubt. Brad Richards' contract was inflationary.

We're talking about UFAs, who can never be used as arbitration comparables. Bobby Holik's contract was not inflationary - unless you want to argue that somehow his contract encouraged other teams to overspend on free agents (makes no sense), or that his contract empowered other player agents in their negotations (makes no sense - is predicated on the fact that GMs are horrible negotiators with little willpower).

What Holik makes is irrelevant.

The fact that both sides will lie through their teeth to gain an advantage is self-evident.

It is stupid for Holik to insult the owners at this point in the process, but no one said hockey players were smart or able to discern their best interests.
 
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