Speculation: Bob and Bread combo thread

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majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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I don't mind that interview.

I generally don't like how readily Artemi accepts the language barrier as a fact of life instead of trying, and how disconnected he is from his teammates as a result.

On the other hand, I like a lot about the guy. We act like someone is a bad person when they don't talk about winning all of the time. The guy tries hard on the ice, we shouldn't have any complaints. I find it admirable that he is so thrifty and gives a lot to the poorer members of his family, that he has talked about coming around on issues of gay rights, that he is willing to speak out against Russian legislation (in this case the internet bill). He's a good person.
 

Bobcat110

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Why wouldn't you want a head start in negotiations? Seems valuable to me. It's also possible the teams work out an NBA style sign-and-trade so the Panthers can offer the 8th year of the contract. That's worth even more.

I know they were saying that players must be on team roster at trade deadline for 8 years contract. So only the CBJ can offer 8 year contract. Are you saying the CBJ could sign the players to 8 years and then immediately trade them to panthers to skirt the 7 years limit? Just wondering the logistics.
 

GoJackets1

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I know they were saying that players must be on team roster at trade deadline for 8 years contract. So only the CBJ can offer 8 year contract. Are you saying the CBJ could sign the players to 8 years and then immediately trade them to panthers to skirt the 7 years limit? Just wondering the logistics.
Yes, I believe so.
 

majormajor

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I know they were saying that players must be on team roster at trade deadline for 8 years contract. So only the CBJ can offer 8 year contract. Are you saying the CBJ could sign the players to 8 years and then immediately trade them to panthers to skirt the 7 years limit? Just wondering the logistics.

Yes. The Panthers negotiate the 8 year deals with Bob and/or Bread, then the CBJ sign them to the deal and trade them to the Panthers for a pre-agreed price.
 
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EspenK

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What if Panarin has changed his mind and wants to stay? Not likely, but crazier things have happened.

It does seem that both him and Bob seem to be enjoying themselves.

Major salary cap issues. Not so much next season but the following year - Yikes.

If both wanted to stay I'd figure out how to keep Bread and the cap manageable and let Bob go. No way they both can stay and Duchene, Dzingel, PLD, Anderson, Bjorkstrand, Gavrikov,Murray& Werenski are all kept and happy. Maybe a bunch of bridge deals would buy time but at some point there are too many guys who need (and deserve) to be paid.
 

Madifer

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Major salary cap issues. Not so much next season but the following year - Yikes.

If both wanted to stay I'd figure out how to keep Bread and the cap manageable and let Bob go. No way they both can stay and Duchene, Dzingel, PLD, Anderson, Bjorkstrand, Gavrikov,Murray& Werenski are all kept and happy. Maybe a bunch of bridge deals would buy time but at some point there are too many guys who need (and deserve) to be paid.

I think Bob could be more important to the team than Bread. Keeping Bob and Duchene would be great imo.

Bob appears to have defeated his PO inner daemons making him very valuable.
 
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CBJx614

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I think Bob could be more important to the team than Bread. Keeping Bob and Duchene would be great imo.

Bob appears to have defeated his PO inner daemons making him very valuable.
Yeah but I don't think the FO wants to commit long term to a 30yr old goalie.
 

Madifer

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I don’t think one will stay if the other one leaves. It’s gotta be both or none

Bob was here before Bread's arrival so Im not really sure its the case.

Time will tell I guess. We have to see how this PO adventure unravels first as well.
 

mikeyp24

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Man idk I have defended Bob in last years playoffs and some of the PIT series and let some of you guys sway me into being OK with Bob leaving but as someone who fully honestly believes hes the greatest player in team history and easily the best goalie in the post lockout era we have SO MANY top prospect goalies that we can afford Bob and a have cheap young backups like Elvis, vv, and Tarasov. Imagine Tarasov learning from his hometown idol Bobrovski and then Bob handing the torch over full time in 5 years.

Im ok with Bread going he is a f***ing stud of a player but I have less of a connection to him because he has never been a true blue jacket. He plays for us and he plays his best but at the end of the day even if we win the cup and offer him 12x8 he still passes to go to miami or ny for outside reasons so him leaving I wish him well and no hard.feelings.

Now look at how Bob was our first piece that TRULY turned our organization the right way as a player. Always talks team first, always thanks the fans, does great charity work, and basically nothing you can say bad about him. He earned 10m there is no denying that. I know its way too much for a goalie but without Bob we dont make the playoffs this year and certainly dont make the deadline deals because no reason qhen out of the picture. He seems to finally be out of his head and if he can win 2 series I hope he lets the money side be business and.not personal and see we wanted him but were unsure how he would handle the pressure in the future and he has noticeably silenced the crowd.

Sign Bob 8x10.5 but no NMC/NTC as a way to move him later if need be.

Let Bread walk if he doesnt accept 8x9

Sign Duchene with the bread money.
 

Madifer

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Sign Bob 8x10.5 but no NMC/NTC as a way to move him later if need be.

Let Bread walk if he doesnt accept 8x9

Sign Duchene with the bread money.

While I do agree with you on many things I still think that 8x10.5 is too long and too much. The only reason why he could be moved later would be a severe decline which implies that he cant be moved due to the lack of offers.
If the team wins it all this year then its a different story. Then maybe that contract would make sense.

Imagine Tarasov learning from his hometown idol Bobrovski and then Bob handing the torch over full time in 5 years.

I think being a great goalie has a lot to do with one's natural talent and somewhat less with getting lessons.
 
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majormajor

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Sign Bob 8x10.5 but no NMC/NTC as a way to move him later if need be.

Let Bread walk if he doesnt accept 8x9

Sign Duchene with the bread money.

I'd advocate offering Bob 8x8. I don't think any team is offering him 10+ (let's see - maybe if he wins the Conn Smythe).
 

mikeyp24

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While I do agree with you on many things I still think that 8x10.5 is too long and too much. The only reason why he could be moved later would be a severe decline which implies that he cant be moved due to the lack of offers.
If the team wins it all this year then its a different story. Then maybe that contract would make sense.



I think being a great goalie has a lot to do with one's natural talent and somewhat less with getting lessons.
The contract being 8x10.5 is predicated on conference finals 6 game series Ill say. And moving him we would retain obviously but sometimes you move on from players not because skill but Money issues so thats why I say no NTC or at least partial. I think if we get just 1 round in and Bob gets a shit ton of offers but not his 10.5 I think if the jackets say in good faith we cant afford you at 10.5 but if you dont find that money and someone offers you 9 or 9.5 give us a chance to match it. Or they offer you 9.5 at 7 let us do 8.5 at 8.

And the mentor thing isnt about the lessons its more let him see how Bob works out and gets prepared. Listen to how Torts and other players/management talk about his work ethic and how hard he goes being first in last out. I also think having anither russian goalie from the same area could he good for Bob having a sort of kinship with the kid that makes their relationship of wanting each other to succeed and the team to succeed more inlortant then Bob having to have 60 starts and more like 50 to 32 the even a more 50 50 as bob gets older. Passing the torch willingly is always much better then fighting for games and asking to be moved.

Hopefully both of those made sense.
 

majormajor

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Major salary cap issues. Not so much next season but the following year - Yikes.

If both wanted to stay I'd figure out how to keep Bread and the cap manageable and let Bob go. No way they both can stay and Duchene, Dzingel, PLD, Anderson, Bjorkstrand, Gavrikov,Murray& Werenski are all kept and happy. Maybe a bunch of bridge deals would buy time but at some point there are too many guys who need (and deserve) to be paid.

As you say, next year is tight but doable even if we keep Duchene, Bob, and Artemi. I did a full "optimistic scenario" recently that looks like this:

PanarinDuboisBjorkstrand
TexierDucheneAtkinson
FolignoJennerAnderson
RobinsonSedlakHannikainen
Stenlund
WerenskiJones
MurrayNutivaara
KukanSavard
Gavrikov
Bobrovsky
Merzlikins
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That's

Panarin $11m x 8
Duchene $8m x 8
Bobrovsky $8m x 8
Werenski $6m x 6
Murray $5m x 4

We let Dzingel go, give away Wennberg and Nash, and pay someone to take Dubinsky (yes I know it would be expensive, like Korpisalo + picks/prospects). That leaves the Jackets about a million under next year's cap.

The following year I expect
Dubois ~ $6m x 6
Anderson ~$ 5.5m x 7

Even with the cap going up it's normal ~ $3m, that leaves the Jackets scrambling to come up with $5m more to cover the raises to Dubois and Anderson.

It's not so dire for the roster, with Peeke, Carlsson, Bemstrom, and Foudy all looking ready for duty by that point, but we will have to painfully trade someone who has been with the team for a long time. I could see Savard getting traded if Peeke looks ready. I'm not sure who else though.

-------------------------------------

In sum, the team can afford to keep all of Bob, Artemi, and Duchene if they come in with numbers like this.
 

KJ Dangler

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Bob isn’t resigning here , not after this year . Honestly back to expansion when they protected Korpi , it became pretty clear the path management was forging . Now we have Elvis here in Columbus , whom Jarmo says is the best goalie not playing in the Nhl, we have Tarasov , and Vehvilhen knocking on the door . Combine that with the fact that our core players are early 20s in Jones , Werenski , Pld, Bjork, Cam and now Texier and Bemström , whom Portzline expects to be with the Jackets next year , it was never in the cards to invest 7, 8 , or 10 million for a goalie . And honestly , this season has shown their is no reason to resign Bob . We have one of the top , maybe the top defensive group in the league, and it’s getting mich deeper with Garikov joining . We have a forward group that is only going to get much better. And we have ton of goalie depth that is here , as of next year
 
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mikeyp24

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I'd advocate offering Bob 8x8. I don't think any team is offering him 10+ (let's see - maybe if he wins the Conn Smythe).
Yeah I posted this first before I was thinking about it hard. I think we should tell him we offer 8x8 BUT tell him we truly want to keep him and say look for your 10.5 but if you dont get it let us have a chance to match whatever your final decision is. 8.75x8 instead of 7x9.5 the extra year gives us the chance to spread that money a little bit.
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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As you say, next year is tight but doable even if we keep Duchene, Bob, and Artemi. I did a full "optimistic scenario" recently that looks like this:

PanarinDuboisBjorkstrand
TexierDucheneAtkinson
FolignoJennerAnderson
RobinsonSedlakHannikainen
Stenlund
WerenskiJones
MurrayNutivaara
KukanSavard
Gavrikov
Bobrovsky
Merzlikins
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
That's

Panarin $11m x 8
Duchene $8m x 8
Bobrovsky $8m x 8
Werenski $6m x 6
Murray $5m x 4

We let Dzingel go, give away Wennberg and Nash, and pay someone to take Dubinsky (yes I know it would be expensive, like Korpisalo + picks/prospects). That leaves the Jackets about a million under next year's cap.

The following year I expect
Dubois ~ $6m x 6
Anderson ~$ 5.5m x 7

Even with the cap going up it's normal ~ $3m, that leaves the Jackets scrambling to come up with $5m more to cover the raises to Dubois and Anderson.

It's not so dire for the roster, with Peeke, Carlsson, Bemstrom, and Foudy all looking ready for duty by that point, but we will have to painfully trade someone who has been with the team for a long time. I could see Savard getting traded if Peeke looks ready. I'm not sure who else though.

-------------------------------------

In sum, the team can afford to keep all of Bob, Artemi, and Duchene if they come in with numbers like this.

I still think it is too optimistic that all 3 can be signed and cap compliance be achieved. I do agree that trades would have to happen although I think you may be a bit optimistic in how we get rid of Dubi without having to buy him out. I do think your $ for guys are realistic.

Also Bjorkstrand will need a raise in 2021 which I don't think you accounted for. Gavrikov will need a raise also in 2021. Elvis gets more than his ELC next year. I think you left out too much.

Obviously if push came to shove Jarmo could wheel & deal to make it happen but I think the team depth would take a hit.
 

MoeBartoli

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Jan 12, 2011
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As I think Bob has probably won more games for us than anyone, I’d love to keep Bob but not for the numbers being floated. When I look at the goalie salary ladder, I find Price an aberration. That leaves only King Henry in that stratosphere and an overpay at this point.

To me Bob is a$7.5 AAV over 6 yrs, 7 if needed. As an alternative I’ll do $8 at 5 yrs....a risk but I’m ready to “test” what we have among our 3 prospects.
 
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majormajor

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I still think it is too optimistic that all 3 can be signed and cap compliance be achieved. I do agree that trades would have to happen although I think you may be a bit optimistic in how we get rid of Dubi without having to buy him out. I do think your $ for guys are realistic.

Also Bjorkstrand will need a raise in 2021 which I don't think you accounted for. Gavrikov will need a raise also in 2021. Elvis gets more than his ELC next year. I think you left out too much.

Obviously if push came to shove Jarmo could wheel & deal to make it happen but I think the team depth would take a hit.

Now I think you're the one being unrealistic. Team depth would take a hit, but we're talking about removing 1 or 2 guys from our bottom six and our 3rd D pair, it's not quite cutting down to the bone like some of the top teams have had to do. The Capitals in the summer before their cup win had to unload some guys including Marcus Johansson, who was their 5th best forward at the time, cutting deeper than anything we're contemplating here. Obviously it's not such a terrible price to pay to keep talent like Panarin and Duchene.

And if we do manage to keep Panarin and Duchene then I'm wondering how do we not unload some guys at some point just to allow young players on the roster? No one is aging out any time soon, and Foudy and Bemstrom look like NHLers in a year or two. If we don't move any forwards out then those kids are on the 4th line. Same on the backend, Peeke and Carlsson aren't going to have anywhere to play. I'm not handing the kids anything until they're ready, but at the same time you shouldn't assume zero incoming players, that never happens.

Regarding 2021, Seattle will help us out with our crowded roster, and that along with a growing cap and Foligno's paycut will free up cash for raises. 2022 will be quite the issue when Seth needs a massive raise (we'll need to free up another $4 or $5m) but by that point we've had how many years of a stacked roster? It's already well worth it at that point.
 

EspenK

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I continued this discussion in the salary cap thread with a 5 year projection.
 
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