Value of: Bo Horvat

[PetterssonSimp]

You’re out of your mind if you wouldn’t move Horvat for Draisaitl.

Good break down of why you don’t trade Horvat for Drai. Drai is near trash with 97.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Never said Bo was trash. I said Brooks Laich is trash. Don't go putting words in my mouth buds.

Brooks can’t be all trash. Have you seen his wife? Julianna Hough is a total knockout.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Dude even at this point, Chychrun is a better draft pick than OJ.

How so? Like I don’t understand people. I bet you 90% of people complaining haven’t season Juolevi play. I watched almost every single one of his games in finland last year online. He’s developing and getting better and better. He’s going to be a top 4 defenseman. Just because we haven’t rushed him into the NHL and are being patient to develop his entire game, doesn’t mean he’s a bad prospect. Would I have taken Tkachuk/Keller/Sergachev in a redraft? Of course. But that’s in hindsight. As of right now, there’s no point in complaining about who was the right pick, but instead should just talk about him as a player. And he is tracking very well and has been along with Sautner, our best defenseman in Utica.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Because his ceiling isn’t the type you’d hope for when you target a player 5th overall.

And he’s not even tracking like he’ll reach his ceiling.

How is he not tracking like he’ll reach his ceiling? Again I’ll state the question: Have you even watched him play last year or so far this year? The only reasons people say he isn’t tracking well are:
1) Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev have proven themselves in the NHL.
2) He’s not putting up massive point totals(which is not what his game is anyway)

Juolevi is tracking well and getting better and better every single game and that’s what you want from him. Just because we’re being patient and he isn’t in the NHL yet doesn’t mean he won’t reach his potential. Smh ‍

 

[RandV]

He's one of those players that has more value to his team than around the league

It's an optics thing really. With the Sedin's gone as well as everyone but Edler/Tanev from the old guard, the Canucks team and fanbase need a new identity. It's not so much that Horvat is that valuable to the team that another quality couldn't replace him, but rather he was the first young guy to emerge as part of the new core so his value is more about what he gives to the franchise & fanbase than what he does on ice. You could probably swap him for someone like say Mika Zibanejad and not see much difference in on ice performance, but it would really deflate the fanbase.

 

[THE Green Man]

Why would I need to back up my claim that I personally wouldn't trade Horvat for Draisaitl?

Didnt know I had to get into a great debate with every poster who disagreed with me. If you would do that trade good for you. I wouldn't.

You're username is embarrassing though. Benning has built the strongest prospect pool this franchise has seen in 50 years.

Benning has also proved multiple times he's a moron. The Eriksson, Rousell, Beagle contracts. Trading for and then giving a raise to Gudbrandson just to save face.... Do I really need to go on. Also, he's built the best prospect pool in our history by putting together pathetic rosters but still thinking about playoffs. (Insert Jim Mora presser here).

Brooks can’t be all trash. Have you seen his wife? Julianna Hough is a total knockout.

I love puck sluts, she's so fine.

 

[Addison Rae]

Chychrun played ~20 minutes a night and yielded good result when healthy last year in Arizona.

He’s clearly ahead of Juolevi at this point and any non Canucks homer understands that.

 

[Rowlet]

What two sure fire wingers did he pass on? Tkachuk is the only one. Keller was a huge question mark and a lot of teams passed on him.

There was a quote from Benning about how Clayton Keller was a sure fire NHL'er and that they knew he had elite skills at the draft, however I can't find it now.

 

[me2]

And it should be better.

It’s difficult not to have a vastly improved prospect pool when your GM has built one of the most pathetic NHL rosters over the last handful of seasons.

Imagine if he hadn’t botched the Virtanen and Juolevi picks and traded numerous picks away for waiver scraps and mediocre F/Ds.

Benning is a bad GM who managed to hire a fantastic scout in Judd Brackett.

Gillis hired Brackett. Benning promoted him.

 

[Meeqs]

Players like him pretty much never get moved, so there wont be many comparables.

These conversations always need to start with a good reason to why the player like that would be moved and then find a suitable solution to that question. Other wise you would need some kind of drama, etc to for one sides hand. So I personally don't see it.

 

[me2]

Benning has also proved multiple times he's a moron. The Eriksson, Rousell, Beagle contracts. Trading for and then giving a raise to Gudbrandson just to save face.... Do I really need to go on. Also, he's built the best prospect pool in our history by putting together pathetic rosters but still thinking about playoffs. (Insert Jim Mora presser here).

It isn't even Benning, the only prospect he's responsible for is overiding the scouts who wanted Nylander to Virtanen. He was probably behind Joulevi because he wanted a Dman and so he reached for a Dman. That's it, the rest were scouts picks.

If you remove Benning the prospect pool looks better without his picks, then add all the picks he's wasted or failed to get on top that.....

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Benning has also proved multiple times he's a moron. The Eriksson, Rousell, Beagle contracts. Trading for and then giving a raise to Gudbrandson just to save face.... Do I really need to go on. Also, he's built the best prospect pool in our history by putting together pathetic rosters but still thinking about playoffs. (Insert Jim Mora presser here).

I love puck ****s, she's so fine.

When I'm at the end of the fantasy draft whenever I play EA games, I alway go for (and a couple of these have since expired), Mike Fisher, Mike Comrie, Sheldon Souray, and now apparently Brooks Laich. Because I'm at the point where you're just filling out the roster with whatever old dudes are left, so I go with the ones who have the puck bunnies.

 

[Luck 6]

Horvat is exactly what we need so I don't see any incentive to trade him. If Pettersson continues his strong play and fills the 1C role that will allow Horvat to fill 2C slot which I personally think he is overqualified for, that's an excellent problem to have. There would be absolutely no reason to trade him.

If we're looking to gage value we need to think of something along the lines of the Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen trade, we would need a young potential 1D coming back the other way. I'm not quite sure who fills that role, someone like Provorov or Werenski? Not perfect comparables, but I don't see him moving for a package of picks or lesser pieces.

 

[blankall]

62 points would be great for a 1 C. Name 30 centers that would score at that place. 8 games in and blah blah blah, pace isnt the same as production, but Horvat at a 50 point pace is still Mr. Everything for Vancouver.

There is nothing you would want to trade that would land you Horvat. Even as a thought experiment I will say he is unavailable.

Thank you for your interest, if you need a center, we have a Gagner available for a bargain bin price, and he was one of our top point producers last year after the Sedins, Boeser and Horvat.

Do you see a single team in the league acquiring Horvat to play as their #1 centre. He may develop into a #1 centre, but he's not there now.

 

[blankall]

Horvat is exactly what we need so I don't see any incentive to trade him. If Pettersson continues his strong play and fills the 1C role that will allow Horvat to fill 2C slot which I personally think he is overqualified for, that's an excellent problem to have. There would be absolutely no reason to trade him.

If we're looking to gage value we need to think of something along the lines of the Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen trade, we would need a young potential 1D coming back the other way. I'm not quite sure who fills that role, someone like Provorov or Werenski? Not perfect comparables, but I don't see him moving for a package of picks or lesser pieces.

Johansen was coming off a 71 point season, at 22. He's also a much more complete player than Horvat. I agree that Horvat would bring back a solid young defender, but not of the calibre of Seth Jones. More likely a potential #2/3 D-man.

 

[Critical13]

In all honesty, when it comes down to a possible deal with both sides signing off, would Canuck fans really be upset with getting Drai for Horvat?

I've underrated Horvat in the past, but I feel like Draisaitl would be an awesome pickup if you were moving him. Weird trade, but still. Value wise, even with contracts, I imagine most would prefer Drai?

Realistically, Horvat shouldn't be dealt, it wouldn't make any sense to deal him when they are setting themselves up for a nice 1/2 combo with Drai and Horvat down the middle.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

Horvat is exactly what we need so I don't see any incentive to trade him. If Pettersson continues his strong play and fills the 1C role that will allow Horvat to fill 2C slot which I personally think he is overqualified for, that's an excellent problem to have. There would be absolutely no reason to trade him.

If we're looking to gage value we need to think of something along the lines of the Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen trade, we would need a young potential 1D coming back the other way. I'm not quite sure who fills that role, someone like Provorov or Werenski? Not perfect comparables, but I don't see him moving for a package of picks or lesser pieces.

I love Bo, but if we're asking for Werenski CBJ is asking for a different center of ours in return.

 

[Kale Hulls]

More than you can afford, pal.

Ferrari?

 

[Icebreakers]

In all honesty, when it comes down to a possible deal with both sides signing off, would Canuck fans really be upset with getting Drai for Horvat?

I've underrated Horvat in the past, but I feel like Draisaitl would be an awesome pickup if you were moving him. Weird trade, but still. Value wise, even with contracts, I imagine most would prefer Drai?

Realistically, Horvat shouldn't be dealt, it wouldn't make any sense to deal him when they are setting themselves up for a nice 1/2 combo with Drai and Horvat down the middle.

I would rather have Horvat for one main reason.

Draisaitl makes too much money to play anything less than a #1C. If hes your #1 C im sorry, but you arent going to win anything unless if you have a stacked roster around him. If hes your #2 C, then he makes way too much money for that position, unless if he can carry a line by himself with two plug in players.

Horvat fills in the perfect slot and can produce at 60+ points by himself. 5.5 x 6 is an awesome contract for a ideal #2 C. With Pettersson moving forward, he fits better as the #2 C.

Contracts aside, Draisaitl is worth more, but we cant ignore contracts.

 

[Icebreakers]

You’re out of your mind if you wouldn’t move Horvat for Draisaitl.

Draisaitl, 8.5x7 more years.

Most common line combos

Draisaitl-Lucic-Yamamoto = 0 points

Draisaitl-Puljujarvi-Reider = 0 points

Of Draisaitl's 8 points this season, McDavid is in on 7 of them, and Mcdavid is NOT his most frequent line mate.

Draisaitl has 5 of his total 8 points on the power play that have all come straight from Mcdavid.

Hes making 8.5 million per season. I expect him to carry a line by himself.

If Pettersson becomes what hes projected to be, lets say best case scenario, 10m first line center, youre going to really pay Draisaitl 8.5 per over the next 7 seasons? So you can continue to have Baertschi and Goldobin as wingers? That extra 3 million dollars is the difference between upgrading Baertschi into a prime #1 winger. Meanwhile, Horvat will continue to produce 60-70 points for 3mil less, and we havnt even seen the best from Horvat yet.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

How is he not tracking like he’ll reach his ceiling? Again I’ll state the question: Have you even watched him play last year or so far this year? The only reasons people say he isn’t tracking well are:
1) Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev have proven themselves in the NHL.
2) He’s not putting up massive point totals(which is not what his game is anyway)

Juolevi is tracking well and getting better and better every single game and that’s what you want from him. Just because we’re being patient and he isn’t in the NHL yet doesn’t mean he won’t reach his potential. Smh ‍

You can shake your head all you want—in fact, I recommend you continue shaking it.

He’s a 5th overall pick, he should have been separating himself from his peers every season since the draft—he’s only done that in a negative way.

He was always the high-floor/low-ceiling player in the handful of D he was lumped with in that draft.

IMO, his ceiling is a high end middle pairing D. I’ve watched enough of him that I’m of the opinion (yes, we’re all entitled to those) the Canucks should feel lucky if he’s an average middle pairing guy for the majority of his career.

Feel free to think otherwise.

I’ve stated my reasons enough that I don’t feel I need to elaborate.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Gillis hired Brackett. Benning promoted him.

Thanks, I didn’t know that.

I wish Gillis was given the time to complete his overhaul of the scouting dept.

 

[Luck 6]

I love Bo, but if we're asking for Werenski CBJ is asking for a different center of ours in return.

Fair enough, and I don’t disagree, but if we’re trading Bo we would need a player of that caliber coming back even if we need to add. If not, we become a worse team, and where’s the incentive?

 

[lawrence]

Thanks, I didn’t know that.

I wish Gillis was given the time to complete his overhaul of the scouting dept.

Yea, he did admit he wish he did it, sometimes is hard to let people go or demote them, it really isn't as easy as it seems. at the time, it looked like they were doing a OK, job, we kept on picking late, etc etc, but now in hindsight their drafting was horrible and even Gillis looking back sees it.

but keep in mind, Jim Benning did instruct his scouts to look for certain attributes of players, I believe he literally trained them or taught them how to scout properly, which helped improved our scouting and drafting in General. Something Gillis didn't really do.

Also not a fan of trading Bo. I think we need that type of player come playoff time, he might only score 55 pts in the regular season but come playoff he will be a different animal.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You can shake your head all you want—in fact, I recommend you continue shaking it.

He’s a 5th overall pick, he should have been separating himself from his peers every season since the draft—he’s only done that in a negative way.

He was always the high-floor/low-ceiling player in the handful of D he was lumped with in that draft.

IMO, his ceiling is a high end middle pairing D. I’ve watched enough of him that I’m of the opinion (yes, we’re all entitled to those) the Canucks should feel lucky if he’s an average middle pairing guy for the majority of his career.

Feel free to think otherwise.

I’ve stated my reasons enough that I don’t feel I need to elaborate.

Separating himself how exactly? He’s not purely an offensive defenseman and he’s improved every year. How has he not separated himself?