Blue Jays Discussion: Bo Bichette is pretty good at this whole "baseball" thing.

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phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Deadline Deals and Non-Deals I Liked… and Didn’t Like

Least favorite

5. Blue Jays trade IF Eric Sogard and RHPs Joe Biagini, Daniel Hudson, David Phelps, Aaron Sanchez, and Marcus Stroman for… stuff
I was originally tempted to include the Giants here for not selling Bumgarner and Smith, but having slept on it and done some homework, I’ve reconsidered my position, and more fully understand the decision to blow up most of the bullpen, free up some payroll, restock the system, and stay invested in the season. So instead I’m going with the Blue Jays here.
Look, I’m no prospect expert by any stretch of the imagination, but like a Holiday Inn Express customer, the knowledge I draw from my surroundings — in this case, primarily the expertise of colleagues Eric Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel in the form of their team prospect rankings and THE BOARD, but also other voices within the industry whose work I read and respect — makes me feel like one sometimes. I’m no scout, either, but I can read a dang prospect list, and looking at the Blue Jays’ one after they’ve dealt all of the aforementioned players, I’m hardly wowed.

Hudson and Sogard were pending free agents, but Stroman and Sanchez each had a year of control remaining, while Biagini had three years remaining, and Phelps an affordable club option. For all of the prospects they received — Kay and Woods-Richardson for Stroman; outfielder Derek Fisher for Sanchez, Biagini, and outfield prospect Cal Stevenson; righty Thomas Hatch for Phelps; and righty Kyle Johnston for Hudson — the big picture seems pretty underwhelming. They sold early on Stroman (why not wait a couple of days?) and low on Sanchez (6.07 ERA, 5.03 FIP), and they took in far more quantity than quality, as none of the newcomers is a top 100 prospect, not even for Stroman, the best player they traded. GM Ross Atkins’ claim that he “turned 14 years of control into 42 years of control” isn’t going to sell a single ticket.

On THE BOARD, Woods-Richardson grades out at a 45+ Future Value and Kay a 45. Reasonable minds can certainly differ when it comes to prospects — MLB Pipeline grades both as 50s, for example — but neither cracks their top 100, let alone ours, and they currently rate as the team’s fifth- and sixth-best prospects, respectively. Fisher was a 45 two years ago, before hitting for a 77 wRC+ in his first 312 major league plate appearances, which is to say that his stock is down. Of the rest, Hatch (40 FV) ranks 28th on the team’s list, while Johnston doesn’t crack it. If the relievers weren’t going to bring back much individually, perhaps they could have done better by bundling them.
 

hoc123

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Feb 23, 2014
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I was bored, and kind of interested to see how I viewed the farm system so I made a Blue Jays top prospects tiered list.

1. Bo Bichette

2. Nate Pearson

3. Jordan Groshans

4. Simeon Woods-Richardson
5. Eric Pardinho
6. Alek Manoah
7. Gabriel Moreno
8. Alejandro Kirk
9. Anthony Kay

10. Orelvis Martinez
11. Miguel Hiraldo
12. Adam Kloffenstein
13. Kevin Smith
14. Sean Reid Foley
15. Griffin Conine

16. Kendall Williams
17. Patrick Murphy
18. Maximo Castillo
19. Dasan Brown
20. Leonardo Jimenez

21. Hector Perez
22. Reese McGuire
23. Anthony Alford
24. T.J Zeuch
25. Hagen Danner
26. Will Robertson
27. Samad Taylor
28. Josh Winckowski
29. Jhon Solarte
30. Chavez Young
31. Yennsy Diaz
 
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Skolman

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Feb 16, 2018
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I was bored, and kind of interested to see how I viewed the farm system so I made a Blue Jays top prospects tiered list.

1. Bo Bichette

2. Nate Pearson

3. Jordan Groshans

4. Simeon Woods-Richardson
5. Eric Pardinho
6. Alek Manoah
7. Gabriel Moreno
8. Alejandro Kirk
9. Anthony Kay

10. Orelvis Martinez
11. Miguel Hiraldo
12. Adam Kloffenstein
13. Kevin Smith
14. Sean Reid Foley
15. Griffin Conine

16. Kendall Williams
17. Patrick Murphy
18. Maximo Castillo
19. Dasan Brown
20. Leonardo Jimenez

21. Hector Perez
22. Reese McGuire
23. Anthony Alford
24. T.J Zeuch
25. Hagen Danner
26. Will Robertson
27. Samad Taylor
28. Josh Winckowski
29. Jhon Solarte
30. Chavez Young
31. Yennsy Diaz
Pretty good list, hard to disagree with much of it.

I like the respect shown to Kirk, he's a guy who I feel goes underrated quite a bit. I also like where Moreno is at..Moreno is having an unbelievable year in A. Best season for a 19 year catcher in A ball in the last 10 years. The hype train may be leaving the station soon. That's one thing that people don't talk about as much as they probably should, the Jays have very good young depth at the catcher position. Jansen, Kirk, Moreno, some might put McGuire in there also.

I'm not big on Kevin Smith, although he was solid last season. I'd put Manoah ahead of Pardinho, no question. I don't mind SWR ahead of Manoah though, I actually quite like it.


Now my wish is that we can slot in Torkelson/Martin(Austin) right behind Pearson next year, although Pearson might be in the Majors next season.

You bring either of those 2 guys in and the infield is set for a long time.
 
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Skolman

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Feb 16, 2018
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The Mets promoted him also right before the trade, him doing well in High-A at his age could’ve led to him becoming a pretty untouchable prospect.

I'm excited about this kid.
 

shaner8989

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Aug 6, 2005
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Twins are saying they would have given more for Stroman

f*** this franchise

There is zero positives from this deadline. Zero
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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What playoff Trio was best?

Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine

Clemens, Mussina and Pettite (2002 Yankees had Wells, Hernandez, Weaver and Lilly as well)

Hudson, Mulder and Zito

Lincecum, Cain and Bumgardner

Verlander, Schrezer and Price

Verlander, Cole and Greinke

I had Johnson and Schilling,and Martinez and Schilling, Kershaw and Greinke, Sale and Price, Schrezer and Strasbourg but no clear cut number 3.
 

Morgs

#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
Jul 12, 2015
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Twins are saying they would have given more for Stroman

**** this franchise

There is zero positives from this deadline. Zero

The twins "giving more" does not mean "giving better".

Looking at their prospects, is anyone other than Kirilloff/Lewis (who were both apparently untouchable) that is 100% a better piece than SWR?

Graterol? - apparently untouchable.
Larnach? - nah
Duran? - 3 years older, 1 level higher
Balazovic? - 2 years older, same level

Unless they were offering Graterol/Kirilloff/Lewis (who again, all apparently untouchable), its not even worth the effort thinking about if they could beat the deal.
 

Cor

I am a bot
Jun 24, 2012
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The twins "giving more" does not for sure mean "giving better".

Looking at their org, is anyone other than Kirilloff/Lewis (who were both apparently untouchable) that is 100% a better piece than SWR?

Graterol? - apparently untouchable.
Larnach? - nah
Duran? - 3 years older, 1 level higher

Unless they were offering Graterol/Kirilloff/Lewis (who again, all apparently untouchable), its not even worth the effort thinking about if they could beat the deal.

Stop using logic
 
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Skolman

Registered User
Feb 16, 2018
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The twins "giving more" does not mean "giving better".

Looking at their prospects, is anyone other than Kirilloff/Lewis (who were both apparently untouchable) that is 100% a better piece than SWR?

Graterol? - apparently untouchable.
Larnach? - nah
Duran? - 3 years older, 1 level higher

Unless they were offering Graterol/Kirilloff/Lewis (who again, all apparently untouchable), its not even worth the effort thinking about if they could beat the deal.
Bingo
 

Marmoset

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Apr 4, 2015
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What playoff Trio was best?

Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine

Clemens, Mussina and Pettite (2002 Yankees had Wells, Hernandez, Weaver and Lilly as well)

Hudson, Mulder and Zito

Lincecum, Cain and Bumgardner

Verlander, Schrezer and Price

Verlander, Cole and Greinke

I had Johnson and Schilling,and Martinez and Schilling, Kershaw and Greinke, Sale and Price, Schrezer and Strasbourg but no clear cut number 3.

I'm not sure they were the best in an individual year, but the Braves trio of Maddux/Smoltz/Glavine gets my vote for longevity and being a big problem for the opposition for many years.
 
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as Pure as Evil

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Sep 18, 2011
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got to give the twins credit for damage control. they completely flubbed out on the deadline. sorry but if you wanted to up your offer you better call. why the hell would they call you back when apparently all the pieces the jays wanted were a no go

But they did a pretty little spin and said we would have made a better offer...… in the end taking the magnifying glass off them and having another lazer pointer pointed at the jays
 
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Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
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Toronto, Ontario
"Look, I’m no prospect expert by any stretch "

stopped reading after that.

But then you missed a gem like the Jays selling low on Sanchez (6.07 ERA, 5.03 FIP)!

And wow, now I’m really expecting SWR to not appear on 2020 top prospects lists with the way people continue to list him off as an inconsequential secondary piece (kinda like Syndergaard being thrown in the Dickey trade).
 
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