Blues Trade Proposals 2019-20 - Part III

Status
Not open for further replies.

Beauterham

Registered User
Aug 19, 2018
1,518
1,280
Hey guys, hope you don't mind this Kings fan crashing the party here. Would you be interested in trading Vince Dunn? He would be a great addition for LA's blueline. Given that LA's projected cap hit next season is only about $60,000,000, I figure Dunn might solve LA's left defense and LA might solve St. Louis' cap problems. Perhaps something around Dunn and Kupari as the centerpiece of the trade, with maybe Bozak or Allen (or both) to make up the difference in value? The Kings have plenty of other pieces as well, although they likely won't be trading Vilardi, Turcotte, or the second overall pick.

Here's a thought:

To LA: Vince Dunn, Tyler Bozak
To STL: Rasmus Kupari, Kale Clague, LAK 3rd round pick

That's a former first, former second and a very high third round pick. Clague is ready for the NHL this year, Kupari if not this year then next.

If my value is way off, let me know.

Value isn't wrong, however, Clague doesn't make a lot of sense for the Blues with Mikkola and Perunovich knocking on the door. I'm not really up to date on Kupari but I'm a bit worried about his injury, seeing Fabbri never got back to his old self after his ACL-injury. I like Kupari's upside but at this moment he's a huge gamble.

However, lets say we're willing to gamble on Kupari, what if we swap Clague for Tyler Madden? We're low on centers with NHL-upside. Getting these 2 would solve that problem.

EDIT:
Kupari suffered a torn ACL in late December, so we'd be acquiring him without knowing how he looks post rehab.
I'd certainly prefer Thomas in the deal over Kupari given our recent dealings with Fabbri's knee issues.

Guess we posted the same worries at the same time. ;)
However, I don't see Akil Thomas ever being more than a 3rd liner. The Kings have a surplus of centers (and will possibly add Byfield to that list in October) that could make some centers available. If we swap out either Kupari or Clague, I'd rather go for Madden. I think he has a higher upside.
 
Last edited:

kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
18,357
20,894
I don’t hate it tbh. I love Dunn though. Is Kupari a winger or center?

Kupari is a center, though the Kings will likely shift him to the wing given LA’s center depth.

I’m not terribly familiar with either prospect, but the draft pedigree value is good. Are there any red flags for either guy?

I think the Blues can reasonably expect Mikkola or Perunovich to slide into the regular rotation next year. I like Dunn. I think this is a deal that makes sense for both teams.

Yellow flag on Kupari given he hurt his knee, but north-south speed isn’t his game. No red flags on Clague, he’s just about NHL ready.

As many others have said, this is a pretty good deal. My preference would be for any one of Fagemo, Thomas or Dudas as the forward coming the other way in the deal instead of Kupari, but I would certainly understand if that swung the deal too far the other way for a Kings fan. We have a (potential, unproven) internal replacement for Dunn, but I really don't want to lose him. I still think he will be a plus-defender in a couple of years (some fancy stats suggest he is already) and a guy that will consistently give you 10 goals and 40 points a season.

I’m really high on Fagemo, so he isn’t a guy I would want to include, but I would swap in Thomas or Dudas or both, if it would make the deal work. Kings have a lot of center depth but not a lot of natural winger depth.
 

kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
18,357
20,894
Kupari suffered a torn ACL in late December, so we'd be acquiring him without knowing how he looks post rehab.
I'd certainly prefer Thomas in the deal over Kupari given our recent dealings with Fabbri's knee issues.

I would swap in Thomas if preferred :thumbu:
 

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
7,811
8,138
...
However, lets say we're willing to gamble on Kupari, what if we swap Clague for Tyler Madden? We're low on centers with NHL-upside. Getting these 2 would solve that problem.
...

I didn't have Madden on my list because I assumed that all of Madden, Turcotte, Kaliyev, JAD and Vilardi were untouchable. I would take any of those guys over Kupari, Fagemo, Dudas or Thomas in a heartbeat, I just don't see any of them as being realistic.

...
I’m really high on Fagemo, so he isn’t a guy I would want to include, but I would swap in Thomas or Dudas or both, if it would make the deal work. Kings have a lot of center depth but not a lot of natural winger depth.
I have to admit I don't know a ton about either Thomas or Dudas, but what little I know suggest to me that they will probably end up on the wing at the NHL level even if that's not their natural position. Is that a fair assessment?
 

kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
18,357
20,894
I didn't have Madden on my list because I assumed that all of Madden, Turcotte, Kaliyev, JAD and Vilardi were untouchable. I would take any of those guys over Kupari, Fagemo, Dudas or Thomas in a heartbeat, I just don't see any of them as being realistic.


I have to admit I don't know a ton about either Thomas or Dudas, but what little I know suggest to me that they will probably end up on the wing at the NHL level even if that's not their natural position. Is that a fair assessment?

Thomas very well could be a second line winger or a third line center. I’m not sure if he would be considered a second line center, but he’s still young. Stepping up in big games can do big things for people. He’s definitely a skilled two-way player though, which fits LA and St. Louis very well.

I wouldn’t say that Madden is untouchable – not like Vilardi, Turcotte, and Kaliyev anyway – but I think that package would look different. If I was Blake, I’d be looking to see who else is available if we are including bigger pieces.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MissouriMook

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,219
7,606
Canada
Hey guys, hope you don't mind this Kings fan crashing the party here. Would you be interested in trading Vince Dunn? He would be a great addition for LA's blueline. Given that LA's projected cap hit next season is only about $60,000,000, I figure Dunn might solve LA's left defense and LA might solve St. Louis' cap problems. Perhaps something around Dunn and Kupari as the centerpiece of the trade, with maybe Bozak or Allen (or both) to make up the difference in value? The Kings have plenty of other pieces as well, although they likely won't be trading Vilardi, Turcotte, or the second overall pick.

Here's a thought:

To LA: Vince Dunn, Tyler Bozak
To STL: Rasmus Kupari, Kale Clague, LAK 3rd round pick

That's a former first, former second and a very high third round pick. Clague is ready for the NHL this year, Kupari if not this year then next.

If my value is way off, let me know.
You are welcome here anytime. The proposal isn't bad, value is definitely in the ballpark, but I need to read more about both prospects. As others have noted, Clague, an almost NHL ready LD, doesn't make much sense to us in terms of organizational needs, with Perunovich and Mikkola thought to be ready in that position. Would you consider dropping Clague from the proposal and swapping the 3rd pick for a 2nd? I would even consider a lesser prospect instead of Kupari if we are getting LA's 2nd.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Klank Loves You

Beauterham

Registered User
Aug 19, 2018
1,518
1,280
I didn't have Madden on my list because I assumed that all of Madden, Turcotte, Kaliyev, JAD and Vilardi were untouchable. I would take any of those guys over Kupari, Fagemo, Dudas or Thomas in a heartbeat, I just don't see any of them as being realistic.

The Kings currently have the best prospect depth in the entire NHL and they're going to add Byfield/Stutzle to that list. They're especially deep at the center position and they're all going to battle for an NHL-spot at the start of the next season. This could make a guy like Madden available, there aren't enough rosterspots for all of them. Turcotte and Vilardi (and Byfield??) are ahead of him on the depth chart. Then you have Madden and Kupari, and after those two Thomas and Anderson-Dolan while they already have Blake Lizotte in the NHL. I'm not all that high on Dudas. The Kings are weaker on defense, so a trade like this could be a win/win situation for both teams.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike Liut

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
7,811
8,138
... I'm not all that high on Dudas...

I wouldn't say I am high on him. I really like his motor and if his skill level catches up at the NHL level he could be a great player to eventually have on a line with Thomas. I could see those two wreaking absolute havoc together. That said, if we're giving up Dunn I'd definitely want more of a "sure thing" coming back the other way, I'm just trying to temper my expectation for this imaginary deal. :laugh:
 

Frenzy31

Registered User
May 21, 2003
7,175
1,995
The Kings currently have the best prospect depth in the entire NHL and they're going to add Byfield/Stutzle to that list. They're especially deep at the center position and they're all going to battle for an NHL-spot at the start of the next season. This could make a guy like Madden available, there aren't enough rosterspots for all of them. Turcotte and Vilardi (and Byfield??) are ahead of him on the depth chart. Then you have Madden and Kupari, and after those two Thomas and Anderson-Dolan while they already have Blake Lizotte in the NHL. I'm not all that high on Dudas. The Kings are weaker on defense, so a trade like this could be a win/win situation for both teams.

If we are trading Dunn, I would want Turcotte back. While they have great depth, we have had great dept - Jr. players at points in our rebuild and most still bust out (Sonne, Rattie, etc.). I would prefer the package including Vans first as I value it higher then anything else offered to date.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bluesnatic27

Mike Liut

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 12, 2008
19,278
8,825
If we are trading Dunn, I would want Turcotte back. While they have great depth, we have had great dept - Jr. players at points in our rebuild and most still bust out (Sonne, Rattie, etc.). I would prefer the package including Vans first as I value it higher then anything else offered to date.



I’d do Dunn for Turcotte
 

Mike Liut

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 12, 2008
19,278
8,825
Hypothetically speaking, if we can’t unload Bozak, Allen or Steen to make room for Petro, would trade Tarasenko to make room for him?


I said Tarasenko, because I think Schwartz is a way better fit for our style.
 

Bluesnatic27

Registered User
Aug 5, 2011
4,712
3,209
I think Ottawa or Detroit could be a good trade partner for Allen. Attach the 2021 1st round pick to Allen and ask for something like a 3rd rounder from either of them. It might not be getting the max return, but it does completely offload the contract.
 

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,219
7,606
Canada
I think Ottawa or Detroit could be a good trade partner for Allen. Attach the 2021 1st round pick to Allen and ask for something like a 3rd rounder from either of them. It might not be getting the max return, but it does completely offload the contract.
Sorry to nitpick, but one problem with that is we don't have a 2021 2nd, so we wouldn't pick until the 3rd round. Add to that, that draft is purported to be defense-heavy, which we are going to need. Especially at RD. I see your point, and I recognize that it is imperative to move salary, I would just prefer to explore all other options before trading a 1st.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blueston

BlueDream

Registered User
Aug 30, 2011
25,680
14,072
Sorry to nitpick, but one problem with that is we don't have a 2021 2nd, so we wouldn't pick until the 3rd round. Add to that, that draft is purported to be defense-heavy, which we are going to need. Especially at RD. I see your point, and I recognize that it is imperative to move salary, I would just prefer to explore all other options before trading a 1st.
I wouldn’t trade our first either but not because we need a defenseman. We are stacked at defense. Worrying about that is pointless.
 

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,219
7,606
Canada
I wouldn’t trade our first either but not because we need a defenseman. We are stacked at defense. Worrying about that is pointless.
Not now we don't. Pietrangelo could leave in Nov. Parayko has two more years, and there have been rumours of him bolting to Edmonton. Faulk could be gone at the expansion draft. Bortuzzo has two more years, and he also could be an expansion draft casualty. After that, who do we have at RD? A whopping, awe-inspiring Mitch Reinke. There are NO OTHER RD prospects. We don't need defense immediately, but we really could use some RD prospects who are a couple of years away.
 
Last edited:

Blueston

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 4, 2016
18,699
19,276
Houston, TX
Not now we don't. Pietrangelo could leave in Nov. Parayko has two more years, and there have been rumours of him bolting to Edmonton. Faulk could be gone at the expansion draft. Bortuzzo has two more years, and he also could be an expansion draft casualty. After that, who do we have at RD? A whopping, awe-inspiring Mitch Reinke. There are NO OTHER RD prospects. We don't need defense immediately, but we really could use some RD prospects who are a couple of years away.
This is good point. You don't draft 18 yr olds for what club needs today. You draft for organizational needs knowing that it will generally be 2-4 years before the kids are ready and trying to anticipate what you may need at that point.
 

Bluesnatic27

Registered User
Aug 5, 2011
4,712
3,209
Sorry to nitpick, but one problem with that is we don't have a 2021 2nd, so we wouldn't pick until the 3rd round. Add to that, that draft is purported to be defense-heavy, which we are going to need. Especially at RD. I see your point, and I recognize that it is imperative to move salary, I would just prefer to explore all other options before trading a 1st.
A draft being "defense heavy" doesn't always mean that the 1st round will have more defense than usual. It usually means that the top players in the draft are defensemen. Players like Owen Power, Carson Lambos, Brandt Clarke, and Luke Hughes could all conceivably go in the top-10 at this point. Scouts will look at this first to say if a draft is "___ heavy", much like how scouts looked at the 2020 draft back in 2019 and said it was winger heavy because of players like Holtz, Raymond, Perfetti, Gunler, and Lafrenière highlighting the draft. These kinds of players define a draft at this stage, but these are players the Blues have no shot at selecting.

Saying this, I don't mind that the Blues won't be picking until the 3rd round if it means the Blues can keep valuable assets like Dunn while shedding cap. Any player the Blues select in 2021 might not make an impact until 2025, and by that point the Blues will probably not be Stanley Cup contenders, especially if someone like Dunn were sacrificed to move a Bozak or Allen. I think acquiring 1st round picks is easier than acquiring talented players.

Despite that, if the 1st is too pricey, then I would suggest adding a prospect like Kostin instead. It sucks given how he took a step forward last year in his development, but the guy might be another Chris Stewart instead of a Nick Foligno. Another team will like what he brings, but I think the Blues could live with parting ways with him in order to keep the roster talent intact.
 

BlueDream

Registered User
Aug 30, 2011
25,680
14,072
Not now we don't. Pietrangelo could leave in Nov. Parayko has two more years, and there have been rumours of him bolting to Edmonton. Faulk could be gone at the expansion draft. Bortuzzo has two more years, and he also could be an expansion draft casualty. After that, who do we have at RD? A whopping, awe-inspiring Mitch Reinke. There are NO OTHER RD prospects. We don't need defense immediately, but we really could use some RD prospects who are a couple of years away.
Again, this is fear mongering nonsense. There are literally “ifs” for every player.

Hey in a year Schwartz might bolt at free agency, Steen will retire, Kostin might be a bust, Blais may suffer a career ending injury, Sanford may go back to being bad, and Barbashev may get taken by Seattle!

Guess this means we will have no left wings or RHD on the roster!

You see how bullshit this is? Bortuzzo isn’t getting taken by Seattle. There’s literally no chance of that. Why would they take him? Faulk would be protected if Petro left, and we would absolutely sign Parayko to a monster deal if Pietrangelo left. That’s why your example of us potentially losing all 4 of these guys is simply ridiculous. It’s not gonna happen. The organization is obviously not concerned about RHD prospects because none of them would crack the lineup for years.
 

simon IC

Moderator
Sponsor
Sep 8, 2007
9,219
7,606
Canada
I don't think we should even protect Faulk if Pietrangelo leaves. Protect Parayko, Dunn, and Scandella. Seattle may not even want Faulk anyway.
 

DatDude44

Hmmmm?
Feb 23, 2012
6,142
2,899
I guess I’m in the minority for heavily preferring Kupari to Akil Thomas. Kuparis potential upside to me is much higher. I’m not a huge fan of akils game, if he makes it I don’t think it’s as a top 6 forward.....and were already known for developing so many bottom 6 players, I like to refer to us as bottom 6 U.
 

Beauterham

Registered User
Aug 19, 2018
1,518
1,280
I guess I’m in the minority for heavily preferring Kupari to Akil Thomas. Kuparis potential upside to me is much higher. I’m not a huge fan of akils game, if he makes it I don’t think it’s as a top 6 forward.....and were already known for developing so many bottom 6 players, I like to refer to us as bottom 6 U.

I'm with you on this boat. I'd rather gamble on a potential top 6 player (who might end up as a bottom 6 player) than a guaranteed bottom 6 player.
 

DatDude44

Hmmmm?
Feb 23, 2012
6,142
2,899
I'm with you on this boat. I'd rather gamble on a potential top 6 player (who might end up as a bottom 6 player) than a guaranteed bottom 6 player.
Yep, tho obviously it’s no guarantee that akil is just that, I just personally don’t see the top 6 upside in him
 

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
7,811
8,138
I've been very dismissive of the idea that somehow we would move Steen this offseason as part of a cap clearing project to re-sign Petro, but I may have stumbled across a way to get it done that is a win for everyone involved. I still see no way that Steen doesn't finish his career here (and I expect that next season may be his last) but maybe this will work.

Trade Steen and our 2021 1st to Ottawa for the SJS or CBJ 2021 2nd round pick that they hold. Ottawa buys Steen out, as that is the only condition (in this scenario) under which he agrees to waive his NTC. Blues then sign Steen as a UFA for a little more than the actual salary he lost to the buyout. What is the impact?

Draft wise, we're probably giving up 20-30 slots in the draft, which seems a small price to pay to retain Petro.

Cap wise, we save roughly $4.25M based on his current $5.75M cap hit, assuming that he is re-signed for roughly $1.5M after the buyout, and since it is an over-35 contract they can even include some incentives. Steen pockets $2,333,333 from Ottawa, which means that he makes $3,833,333 in actual guaranteed salary next season or $333,333 more than he would have had he played out his contract. Ottawa picks up $3,416,667 towards the cap floor for next season and $1,166,667 the following season despite only paying out $2,333,333 in total. They also move up 20-30 slots in the draft. It makes great sense for both teams in my view, I just don't know if the trade/buyout/re-sign element of the deal passes muster with the changes they just made to the CBA. Combine this with a trade of Allen where we retain $1M or less and you've freed up $6.85M-$7.85M in cap space for next season, assuming you replace Allen with Husso.

This path would also work using the Bozak contract, but Ottawa spends $500K more in that version and gets $1M less in cap hits over the next two years, and the Blues probably have to spend as much ($1.5M) or more on his new contract to get him to agree to the deal, meaning the cap savings is probably only $3.5M or less. This version, on this basis, is much less financially efficient for both teams.

The "long-ball" play here is to make the trade/buyout/re-sign deal with Steen and trade both Allen and Bozak, replacing Bozak on the roster with Kyrou, freeing up around $10M-$12M for maximum flexibility. Once you have Petro and Dunn locked up, you might have enough money left to go out and get someone like Haula or Soderberg to fill the Bozak slot for far less than his $5M.
 

CaliforniaBlues310

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
4,544
3,506
San Pedro, CA.
I've been very dismissive of the idea that somehow we would move Steen this offseason as part of a cap clearing project to re-sign Petro, but I may have stumbled across a way to get it done that is a win for everyone involved. I still see no way that Steen doesn't finish his career here (and I expect that next season may be his last) but maybe this will work.

Trade Steen and our 2021 1st to Ottawa for the SJS or CBJ 2021 2nd round pick that they hold. Ottawa buys Steen out, as that is the only condition (in this scenario) under which he agrees to waive his NTC. Blues then sign Steen as a UFA for a little more than the actual salary he lost to the buyout. What is the impact?

Draft wise, we're probably giving up 20-30 slots in the draft, which seems a small price to pay to retain Petro.

Cap wise, we save roughly $4.25M based on his current $5.75M cap hit, assuming that he is re-signed for roughly $1.5M after the buyout, and since it is an over-35 contract they can even include some incentives. Steen pockets $2,333,333 from Ottawa, which means that he makes $3,833,333 in actual guaranteed salary next season or $333,333 more than he would have had he played out his contract. Ottawa picks up $3,416,667 towards the cap floor for next season and $1,166,667 the following season despite only paying out $2,333,333 in total. They also move up 20-30 slots in the draft. It makes great sense for both teams in my view, I just don't know if the trade/buyout/re-sign element of the deal passes muster with the changes they just made to the CBA. Combine this with a trade of Allen where we retain $1M or less and you've freed up $6.85M-$7.85M in cap space for next season, assuming you replace Allen with Husso.

This path would also work using the Bozak contract, but Ottawa spends $500K more in that version and gets $1M less in cap hits over the next two years, and the Blues probably have to spend as much ($1.5M) or more on his new contract to get him to agree to the deal, meaning the cap savings is probably only $3.5M or less. This version, on this basis, is much less financially efficient for both teams.

The "long-ball" play here is to make the trade/buyout/re-sign deal with Steen and trade both Allen and Bozak, replacing Bozak on the roster with Kyrou, freeing up around $10M-$12M for maximum flexibility. Once you have Petro and Dunn locked up, you might have enough money left to go out and get someone like Haula or Soderberg to fill the Bozak slot for far less than his $5M.


I like the idea of moving Steen in an Orpik type deal.

However, I don’t agree with the need to sign another 3C after Bozak inevitably also gets moved.

Sundqvist or Barbashev can take over that role, and that’s if we don’t decide to keep running ROR/Schenn/Thomas down the middle.

10-90-57
17-18-91
12-70-33
9-49-20/37

or

12-90-57
17-10-33
9/37-18-91
20/9-49-70
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->