Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019 - Part II

[David Dennison]

I don't see any way Steen finishes his contract in STL. 3 more years at $5.75M would be better spent elsewhere, likely as soon as '19-'20. In which case, the Blues have to hope that Steener can stave off a fifth straight season of decline and put up something resembling 2014 form if they're going to have any hope of finding a taker. It's crucial to get the under-performing and expensive vets off the team as soon as the Blues have younger, cheaper alternatives that can do the same role. As long as he's producing as a top-6 winger, there's a spot on this roster for Alexander Steen. But when he's getting pushed down the line-up, that salary must be churned.

Maybe Army can talk to Cheveldayoff about their 2C hole, and explain how great Steen looked in that role when called into duty for the Blues. He'd be a heck of a veteran leader after Stastny briefly assumed that role last year. Gotta think with his ties to the 'Peg, he'd be one of the few guys that may be open to playing there long-term.

I dont really see the need at this point to be freaking out about Steens deal, the Blues cap situation is very stable for the next 2-3 years. Thomas, Kyrou, and Kostin will all be on ELCs, Bouw and Carl coming off of the books next year. That money can be reallocated to new deals for Dunn, Petro and Schenn the year after, and that doesnt take into account any cap increases. IMO, strong possibility Bozak could be bigger dead weight in two years.

 

[Zamadoo]

That's the thing though, Shoulda coulda woulda. They were basically swept and nothing changes that. It doesn't sound like Panarin has any intent to stay there. So no matter what, they will lose him. Post Panarin they wont be nearly as good and they dont have any top tier prospects. Solid team but I dont see them getting past the 2nd round. Smart managment is to move Panarin for elite futures, which he'd bring back. Hell, even Bobrovsky could he moved in a tank move

That's why we gotta do Allen, Steen, Bouwmeester, Binnington, Blais, Sanford, Sundvist, '19 2nd, '20 3rd for Panarin and Bobrovsky...

 

[BlueDream]

I don't see any way Steen finishes his contract in STL. 3 more years at $5.75M would be better spent elsewhere, likely as soon as '19-'20. In which case, the Blues have to hope that Steener can stave off a fifth straight season of decline and put up something resembling 2014 form if they're going to have any hope of finding a taker. It's crucial to get the under-performing and expensive vets off the team as soon as the Blues have younger, cheaper alternatives that can do the same role. As long as he's producing as a top-6 winger, there's a spot on this roster for Alexander Steen. But when he's getting pushed down the line-up, that salary must be churned.

Maybe Army can talk to Cheveldayoff about their 2C hole, and explain how great Steen looked in that role when called into duty for the Blues. He'd be a heck of a veteran leader after Stastny briefly assumed that role last year. Gotta think with his ties to the 'Peg, he'd be one of the few guys that may be open to playing there long-term.

A lot obviously depends on how this season goes but if the rumors of Maroon signing an extension are true, and Fabbri returns to form, I think Steen gets shopped next summer. Something is going to have to budge when even more prospects start to push for spots and Steen, being the oldest, could very well be expendable in a year. Would not surprise me if this is his last year in the Note.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Probability of trading Steen with his NTC < Probability of ever having Panarin in STL, IMO.

 

[carter333167]

We need a better goaltender more than we need whatever upgrade Panarin might provide. The goaltender is the most important player on the ice.

 

[Zamadoo]

Probability of trading Steen with his NTC < Probability of ever having Panarin in STL, IMO.

Indeed. That's why we need to trade him for Panarin. To win the Cup, we will need to beat every odd.

 

[Zamadoo]

We need a better goaltender more than we need whatever upgrade Panarin might provide. The goaltender is the most important player on the ice.

That's why we gotta trade Allen for Bobrovsky.

 

[Dbrownss]

We need a better goaltender more than we need whatever upgrade Panarin might provide. The goaltender is the most important player on the ice.

Given how up and down goalies are.....I'm fine with seeing what Allen does with this roster.

 

[Blanick]

I am very interested in acquiring Panarin.... as a UFA next summer. I think regardless of whether he gets traded this year or not he wants to test the market next summer. Spending the assets it would take to acquire him for only 1 year of guaranteed service would be unwise IMO.

 

[Ranksu]

.

At least the Tavares discussion made sense. He was a free agent and we had a huge hole up front. I don't see how this Panarin stuff is anything but a waste of time.

Tavares coming to Blues was improbable thing you can imagine. It was just nonsense talk in Blues board that we can get Tavares. Passioned and blindfolded fans who are desperate enough call that kind of things out loud. Its understandable knowing what Blues were end of season, this whole Blues future was so fuzzy and crincgeworth so I understand perfectly why people go mad about Tavares. Well at least I had fun to read it and lurking back it now its laughable how some Blues members were so serious about we've legit chance to get him.

 

[Ranksu]

Given how up and down goalies are.....I'm fine with seeing what Allen does with this roster.

Well its his last chance prove he's #1 if not he's out.

 

[TK 421]

Tavares coming to Blues was improbable thing you can imagine. It was just nonsense talk in Blues board that we can get Tavares. Passioned and blindfolded fans who are desperate enough call that kind of things out loud. Its understandable knowing what Blues were end of season, this whole Blues future was so fuzzy and crincgeworth so I understand perfectly why people go mad about Tavares. Well at least I had fun to read it and lurking back it now its laughable how some Blues members were so serious about we've legit chance to get him.

As it turns out the only reason Tavares was unrealistic was unbeknownst to everyone but Tavares, he clearly intended from the start to be a Leaf. You didn't know, I didn't know... nobody but Tavares knew.

 

[Ranksu]

As it turns out the only reason Tavares was unrealistic was unbeknownst to everyone but Tavares, he clearly intended from the start to be a Leaf. You didn't know, I didn't know... nobody but Tavares knew.

But it was listed that Blues weren't even getting meeting with Tavares. Even possibility to talk with him was zero chance. It doesn't matter what Tavares know at start.

Blues stubbles were just that somethimes in childhoold Pietro did play with Tavares and Tarasenko could be good fit with him. Nothing more.

But hey at least we got good laugh.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I am very interested in acquiring Panarin.... as a UFA next summer. I think regardless of whether he gets traded this year or not he wants to test the market next summer. Spending the assets it would take to acquire him for only 1 year of guaranteed service would be unwise IMO.

Everything points to a S&T though. I don’t think Panarin makes it to FA.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

We need a better goaltender more than we need whatever upgrade Panarin might provide. The goaltender is the most important player on the ice.

I’m all for upgrading Allen, but I don’t think that option is it there, and I don’t think we can get rid f him at this point. I’m all ears though.

 

[Blanick]

Everything points to a S&T though. I don’t think Panarin makes it to FA.

Ok let's assume it is a sign and trade for a second. Are you prepared to lose multiple prospects and probably another 1st rounder to get this deal done. I don't want to empty the cupboard for a player that we could talk to for free in a year. It's not like our window is rapidly closing it is just now opening.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Ok let's assume it is a sign and trade for a second. Are you prepared to lose multiple prospects and probably another 1st rounder to get this deal done. I don't want to empty the cupboard for a player that we could talk to for free in a year. It's not like our window is rapidly closing it is just now opening.

Yeah. I’m all for Kostin+Barbashev+Jaskin+’20 2nd +’21 1st conditional on re-sign, or even Kyrou/Fabbri instead of Kostin if that’s what it takes to get him at 8.5M. Artemi Panarin is everything we hope Kyrou to be if everyhing goes well, and will be better than Fabbri ever will be. I have no problem with moving Kostin and Barbashev. I draw the line at Thomas unless there is significantly less value going the other way.

 

[Blanick]

Yeah. I’m all for Kostin+Barbashev+Jaskin+’20 2nd +’21 1st conditional on re-sign, or even Kyrou/Fabbri instead of Kostin if that’s what it takes to get him at 8.5M. Artemi Panarin is everything we hope Kyrou to be if everyhing goes well, and will be better than Fabbri ever will be. I have no problem with moving Kostin and Barbashev. I draw the line at Thomas unless there is significantly less value going the other way.

For a sign and trade that offer gets laughed at. If they accept a futures package think more along the lines of Thomas + Kostin + 1st.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

For a sign and trade that offer gets laughed at. If they accept a futures package think more along the lines of Thomas + Kostin + 1st.

I would do that for a S&T. I don’t think we have the need for Thomas that we come had. That said, I don’t think CBJ will be able to command that much for him. There aren’t many teams that he’d be willing to S&T to that also have the cap, the roster spots for the ED, and the ability to pay his salary in the inevitable lockout. Berglund+Sobotka+Thompson+picks would have been laughed at for ROR with his term and age, but here we are.

 

[Blanick]

I would do that for a S&T. I don’t think we have the need for Thomas that we come had. That said, I don’t think CBJ will be able to command that much for him. There aren’t many teams that he’d be willing to S&T to that also have the cap, the roster spots for the ED, and the ability to pay his salary in the inevitable lockout. Berglund+Sobotka+Thompson+picks would have been laughed at for ROR with his term and age, but here we are.

Ok so the post right before this one you say you draw the line at Thomas and now say he's not needed. Which is it? I highly disagree that we don't need him.
That being said again why would I spend three quality assets for a player that we can talk to for free next summer. I get the obsession over Panarin, I really do. I don't get the obsession as to why it has to be this season that we acquire him.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Ok so the post right before this one you say you draw the line at Thomas and now say he's not needed. Which is it? I highly disagree that we don't need him.
That being said again why would I spend three quality assets for a player that we can talk to for free next summer. I get the obsession over Panarin, I really do. I don't get the obsession as to why it has to be this season that we acquire him.

I would draw the line unless there are fewer quality assets returning the other way. Only one first, and Kostin instead of Barbashev+Kyrou is lesser to me.

There’s no obsession, it’s just that I think Panarin won’t make it to FA. All indications seem to be a S&T.

 

[Blanick]

I would draw the line unless there are fewer quality assets returning the other way. Only one first, and Kostin instead of Barbashev+Kyrou is lesser to me.

There’s no obsession, it’s just that I think Panarin won’t make it to FA. All indications seem to be a S&T.

No obsession? Go back and read the last 5 pages of this thread.

Here is my take. Let's say we empty the cupboard for Panarin. Yes it does dramatically improve our core for the remainder of their window. So let's say we are competitive contenders for the next 5 to 6 years. What about after that? Remember the cupboard is bare of potential high end prospects and we lost two years worth of first round picks so who comes in when this core starts declining in their mid 30s?

I would rather do what Army is currently doing. Keeping a large group of talented prospects and slowly bringing them up in a winning environment so that when the time comes they can seamlessly take the reigns from the current core and extend our window even longer.

I feel like if we empty the cupboard for Panarin we are looking hard a rebuild in the future.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

No obsession? Go back and read the last 5 pages of this thread.

Here is my take. Let's say we empty the cupboard for Panarin. Yes it does dramatically improve our core for the remainder of their window. So let's say we are competitive contenders for the next 5 to 6 years. What about after that? Remember the cupboard is bare of potential high end prospects and we lost two years worth of first round picks so who comes in when this core starts declining in their mid 30s?

I would rather do what Army is currently doing. Keeping a large group of talented prospects and slowly bringing them up in a winning environment so that when the time comes they can seamlessly take the reigns from the current core and extend our window even longer.

I feel like if we empty the cupboard for Panarin we are looking hard a rebuild in the future.

With Bokk, one of Kostin or Kyrou, Barbashev, Walman, Husso, etc., we won’t need 1st round picks this or next year. I’ve already posted a lineup that only needs Kyrou and Thomas - we could replace their third line roles with Bokk/Kostin and Barbashev when 2020 rolls around. I think the future is fine - our core would be for both now and the future. By the time we draft in the first again in 2021, we’d be timing it well for more youth to restock the cupboards.

If you think talking about the biggest story in the off-season is an obsession, then change the subject to something more interesting like acquiring some goalie. I posted my thoughts, and have responded to others’ responses. It was claimed it was impossible to fit under the cap, and I demonstrated that that’s not entirely true. That seems like a good use of “5 pages” in July considering where our team is at this point.

 

[Blanick]

With Bokk, one of Kostin or Kyrou, Barbashev, Walman, Husso, etc., we won’t need 1st round picks this or next year. I’ve already posted a lineup that only needs Kyrou and Thomas - we could replace their third line roles with Bokk/Kostin and Barbashev when 2020 rolls around. I think the future is fine - our core would be for both now and the future. By the time we draft in the first again in 2021, we’d be timing it well for more youth to restock the cupboards.

If you think talking about the biggest story in the off-season is an obsession, then change the subject to something more interesting like acquiring some goalie. I posted my thoughts, and have responded to others’ responses. It was claimed it was impossible to fit under the cap, and I demonstrated that that’s not entirely true. That seems like a good use of “5 pages” in July considering where our team is at this point.

I disagree with your assessment of what our future would look like. The draft picked in 2021 draft will likely not be ready to supplement the current core until they are already past their primes. If we trade Thomas we would have zero top6 C prospects for when O'Reilly and Schenn begin to decline.

Again though this all hinges on a sign and trade which I haven't heard a single person close to the situation mention. I think teams want to talk to Panarins agent to gauge interest in re signing but are strictly talking about rental price when it comes to acquiring him. Which brings me back to my original point. I think Panarin wants to test free agency no matter what. He saw what was going on this summer with Tavares and thinks he can muster up similar hype. So again why waste any assets whatsoever. Let this play out through the year and look to talk to him next summer.

 

[TK 421]

But it was listed that Blues weren't even getting meeting with Tavares. Even possibility to talk with him was zero chance. It doesn't matter what Tavares know at start.

Blues stubbles were just that somethimes in childhoold Pietro did play with Tavares and Tarasenko could be good fit with him. Nothing more.

But hey at least we got good laugh.

Mmkay then. Don't wear your arm out patting yourself on the back there man, David Poile still needs a foot rub so conserve your energy.

You may have gotten a good laugh, but Doug the Noobslayer waved his hands around and blew us all away getting O'Reilly in what most would have considered a crappy proposal from the trade board. So instead of running 3 offense minded centers had we gotten Tavares, we now have a matchup beast to go with Schenn and Bozak. We also kept our 200 ft center in Thomas so I like our mix of skill sets at the position. Funny how things work out.