Blues Schwartz Leaving To The Dub?

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

Pens love kids who go to college.

College is a good fit for some players, normally guys who are more than a year or two away from the NHL. It allows a team to monitor a player's progress over 4 years rather than just two before they decide to give them a contract a move them into a pro career.

Schwartz is a player who will be able to compete for an NHL roster very soon. So, getting him in a situation where he's playing a tougher schedule and focussed on rounding his game for NHL competition is a priority. It also allows them to bring Schwartz to camp and work with him more directly to decide what course to take with his development.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

They want these guys to go to the CHL for 2 reasons

1. They schedule. The CHL is a pro schedule. Most of these guys will play 90+ games on a CHL schedule. You couple that with all the travel time and emphasis on hockey and not school you will understand the appeal to NHL teams

2. Contract. No NHL team wants a guy to stay 4 years in college then not sign with them. It has happened and it will happen. This way they are almost assured the guy they drafted signs with them.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Most hockey people would disagree strongly.

Laughable.

NHL teams encourage certain players to go to juniors over the NCAA. Absolutely. The Rangers encouraged Kreider to do that because they felt he was physically ready but wanted him to get the seasoning that the CHL could give him with game after game.

Certain players who need to develop physically and defensively are much better suited to the NCAA than the CHL. And teams won't discourage those players from going that route.

It's a player by player basis. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

MTL told Tinordi to go play in London instead of going to Notre Dame. They wanted him to play a more rigorous schedule vs. 2 games per week.

But couldn't Schwartz go play in Peoria next year? If he plays less than 9 NHL games it won't count as a full season.

Tinordi was a great CHL candidate, too. A man already in size and physicality, it was better for his game to get more games under him in the CHL. He didn't really need constant trips to the weight room.

 

[wej20]

College is a good fit for some players, normally guys who are more than a year or two away from the NHL. It allows a team to monitor a player's progress over 4 years rather than just two before they decide to give them a contract a move them into a pro career.

Schwartz is a player who will be able to compete for an NHL roster very soon. So, getting him in a situation where he's playing a tougher schedule and focussed on rounding his game for NHL competition is a priority. It also allows them to bring Schwartz to camp and work with him more directly to decide what course to take with his development.

I definitely agree that College is a good fit for some while CHL is better for others but if Schwartz is going to be competing for an NHL spot very soon he could go play a tougher schedule in the AHL against tougher competition rather than tear it up in the CHL even with a tougher schedule.

They want these guys to go to the CHL for 2 reasons

1. They schedule. The CHL is a pro schedule. Most of these guys will play 90+ games on a CHL schedule. You couple that with all the travel time and emphasis on hockey and not school you will understand the appeal to NHL teams

2. Contract. No NHL team wants a guy to stay 4 years in college then not sign with them. It has happened and it will happen. This way they are almost assured the guy they drafted signs with them.

You hold the rights to your college players for longer so the plus side is you can take a look at a guy for a longer period before committing to a contract. Also with a college schedule you get the benefit of more weight room time and practice time which is a better fit for some Kids.

 

[bluesfan94]

Whatever.

Andy is :

- an award winning reporter
- an award winning broadcaster
- hosts his own radio show on 590 The Fan KFNS
- coaches hockey

In addition he has personal relationships with dozens of NHL, AHL players, players at other levels, connections with mgmt. throughout pro hockey etc.

You can call him a blogger if you want.

If Rutherford had said this, I would trust it a lot more than Strickland. That isn't a slight to Strickland, I just don't trust him as much.

That said, I doubt Jaden would leave his brother and team (a lot has been made about his brother, but I think the team is important too; it's a type of brotherhood too) to go to the WHL, when he had that opportunity and chose not to last year. I don't see why his feelings would change

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

I definitely agree that College is a good fit for some while CHL is better for others but if Schwartz is going to be competing for an NHL spot very soon he could go play a tougher schedule in the AHL against tougher competition rather than tear it up in the CHL even with a tougher schedule.

AHL remains an option if he leaves college.

The Leafs started D'Amigo in the AHL, but he struggled to score and his confidence dropped. So they let him play in the WJC and then sent him to junior, where he has thrived. If he was still in college, they would not have the flexibility decide what was best for him.

 

[Roughneck]

The only reason I'd see a team pushing a player from college to the CHL when the AHL is an option is if they were struggling in college and playing in junior could help boost their confidence and playing time.

Schwartz hasn't had any trouble scoring so if he wants to leave college I don't really see what benefit going to Tri-City would have over Peoria.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I definitely agree that College is a good fit for some while CHL is better for others but if Schwartz is going to be competing for an NHL spot very soon he could go play a tougher schedule in the AHL against tougher competition rather than tear it up in the CHL even with a tougher schedule.




You hold the rights to your college players for longer so the plus side is you can take a look at a guy for a longer period before committing to a contract. Also with a college schedule you get the benefit of more weight room time and practice time which is a better fit for some Kids.

He can't play in the AHL he was drafted by a CHL team and thus falls under the NHL/CHL agreement.

It is not about off ice training. That can't prepare you for the real deal. This is about getting used to the grind of the Pro game. You see this with alot of Euro and NCAA kids they hit that wall that first pro season. Why do you think you see alot of euro kids come over to the CHL? To get used to the small ice and Pro style game.

 

[Bjorn Le]

The only reason I'd see a team pushing a player from college to the CHL when the AHL is an option is if they were struggling in college and playing in junior could help boost their confidence and playing time.

Schwartz hasn't had any trouble scoring so if he wants to leave college I don't really see what benefit going to Tri-City would have over Peoria.

That's completely not the reason. Teams want players in the CHL because

-Its better coaching
-Longer schedule
-Focus on hockey
-Higher level of skill

Only thing that the NCAA is better at is the physical elment and that's because the players are older.

 

[Roughneck]

That's completely not the reason. Teams want players in the CHL because

-Its better coaching
-Longer schedule
-Focus on hockey
-Higher level of skill

Only thing that the NCAA is better at is the physical elment and that's because the players are older.

I'm not talking about picking the NCAA over the CHL, I'm talking about picking the CHL instead of having them go to the AHL when they choose to leave the NCAA.

 

[Ward Cornell]

....not to mention NCAA hockey (particularly WCHA) is generally a slightly higher level of play due to the age difference.
Considering his NCAA stats, I think he'd absolutely destroy the CHL.

Maybe....maybe not.
Example: Jerry D'Amigo last year at RPI had 35 points in 34 games.
This year in the OHL has 28 points in 21 games.
Yes, there's an increase in points per game but take in consideration he's a year older and his linemate is Gabriel Landeskog. So some increase in points should be expected. (also D'Amigo had half a season in the AHL)

Edited to add: Jerry was interviewed on the radio and was asked about the difference between the OHL and the NCAA. He said the one big difference was the OHL was more wide open while the NCAA (or least his division where he played) was all trapping with very little offence.

Too be honest, I'm not really sure about having underagers playing in the AHL.
I see very few if any positives coming out of this for the players.
IMHO Brandon Pirri and Jeremy Morin would've been better served playing in the NCAA or the OHL.

But sometimes players leave the NCAA for non-hockey issues. They may find that
the schooling or whatever is suited for them. Kids leave college for various reasons
and hockey players are probably the same. Especially if they do have options.
It doesn't have to be a NCAA vs the CHL.

 

[Ward Cornell]

He can't play in the AHL he was drafted by a CHL team and thus falls under the NHL/CHL agreement.

Yes he can, case in point is Jeremy Morin and Brandon Pirri.
It all boils down to what league they were drafted from.
Schwartz, Morin and Pirri weren't drafted from the CHL so the CHL agreement doesn't come into affect.
Morin actually played one year in Kitchener before the Hawks sent him to the AHL as an underager because he was drafted
from the USNDTP (USHL)

 

[john g]

The more obvious question should be:

Has anyone that has played at the NCAA level, and played it to a level such as Schwartz, ever left to go to the CHL? I can't remember anyone doing it, but I'm sure there is probably someone in the annals of hockey that may have.


I can understand those switching destinations before arrival (the Tinordi reference) and ones leaving because their development hasn't worked at the NCAA level (sam lofquist, kenny ryan) The D'Amigo example really isn't good here as one that went from NCAA to CHL directly but it does really show what Schwartz path could be if he leaves CC now. AHL first and if that's deemed as detrimental then he goes to the W as an out clause. CC to the WHL would really be a bizarre move.

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

He can't play in the AHL he was drafted by a CHL team and thus falls under the NHL/CHL agreement.

It is not about off ice training. That can't prepare you for the real deal. This is about getting used to the grind of the Pro game. You see this with alot of Euro and NCAA kids they hit that wall that first pro season. Why do you think you see alot of euro kids come over to the CHL? To get used to the small ice and Pro style game.

This is incorrect. He is eligible for the AHL, just as D'Amigo was this year.

Players drafted by NHL teams from CHL teams are the ones subject to this rule.

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

The more obvious question should be:

Has anyone that has played at the NCAA level, and played it to a level such as Schwartz, ever left to go to the CHL? I can't remember anyone doing it, but I'm sure there is probably someone in the annals of hockey that may have.


I can understand those switching destinations before arrival (the Tinordi reference) and ones leaving because their development hasn't worked at the NCAA level (sam lofquist, kenny ryan) The D'Amigo example really isn't good here as one that went from NCAA to CHL directly but it does really show what Schwartz path could be if he leaves CC now. AHL first and if that's deemed as detrimental then he goes to the W as he out clause. CC to the WHL would really be a bizarre move.

TJ Galiardi played a year at Dartmouth. Was drafted. Then moved to the WHL.

Robbie Czarnik spent a year and a half at Michigan before moving to the OHL.

Jim O'Brien played a year at Minnesota. Was drafted. Then moved the WHL.

 

[TMHUNH]

The more obvious question should be:

Has anyone that has played at the NCAA level, and played it to a level such as Schwartz, ever left to go to the CHL? I can't remember anyone doing it, but I'm sure there is probably someone in the annals of hockey that may have.


I can understand those switching destinations before arrival (the Tinordi reference) and ones leaving because their development hasn't worked at the NCAA level (sam lofquist, kenny ryan) The D'Amigo example really isn't good here as one that went from NCAA to CHL directly but it does really show what Schwartz path could be if he leaves CC now. AHL first and if that's deemed as detrimental then he goes to the W as he out clause. CC to the WHL would really be a bizarre move.

Sure,

There have been more than a few instances that someone leaves NCAA for CHL after a very productive freshman year.

Off the top of my head, the most likely comparison would be Chuck Kobasew who put up a similar amount of points and left for the WHL after a title winning freshman year.

 

[BennyBST]

This is incorrect. He is eligible for the AHL, just as D'Amigo was this year.

Players drafted by NHL teams from CHL teams are the ones subject to this rule.

Same with Leddy.

 

[leoleo3535]

TJ Galiardi played a year at Dartmouth. Was drafted. Then moved to the WHL.

Robbie Czarnik spent a year and a half at Michigan before moving to the OHL.

Jim O'Brien played a year at Minnesota. Was drafted. Then moved the WHL.

Lots of players....Kobasew as mentioned as well.

A few more-

Duncan Keith
Mike Comrie
Ryan Hayes
Corey Fienhage
Taylor Stefishen*
Mike Van Ryan
Todd Perry
Kenny Ryan
*not really his choice

 

[john g]

kobasew and comrie are good examples.

the rest (galiardi i can understand leaving dartmouth as that would have stagnated his growth) weren't doing much at the college level at all.

 

[leoleo3535]

kobasew and comrie are good examples.

the rest (galiardi i can understand leaving dartmouth as that would have stagnated his growth) weren't doing much at the college level at all.

Duncan Keith was doing well at the college level.

 

[leoleo3535]

David Toews ,Tyler Pitlick , Rob Czarnik are a few more.

 

[GJB]

The more obvious question should be:

Has anyone that has played at the NCAA level, and played it to a level such as Schwartz, ever left to go to the CHL? I can't remember anyone doing it, but I'm sure there is probably someone in the annals of hockey that may have.

I am thinking Mike Comrie is the best example here.

Put up a huge amount of points at Michigan in his first two years, then left for the WHL's Kootenay Ice where he put up over a goal/game for 79 points in 39 games. Prorated over a 72 game season and that is 146 points.

 

[wej20]

That's completely not the reason. Teams want players in the CHL because

-Its better coaching
-Longer schedule
-Focus on hockey
-Higher level of skill

Only thing that the NCAA is better at is the physical elment and that's because the players are older.

The top NCAA programmes have pretty good coaching as well.

 

[wej20]

David Toews ,Tyler Pitlick , Rob Czarnik are a few more.

None of those guys came close to putting up Schwartz's numbers though.