Blues Salary Cap Going Foward (2020-2022)

[simon IC]

Retaining 2m for 7 years? I don't expect management to pull the trigger on that...

I think we're going to lose someone we'd rather not as a sweetener to move Allen & Bozak (or a high pick) and see Petro re-sign, then pay ANOTHER sweetner to ship Faulk off to Seattle if Pietrangelo stays with us for a new deal.

I agree. The Faulk signing is going to end up proving to be costly. I think we might lose any one or two of a 2020 1st, Vince Dunn, Jaden Schwartz, and /or a prospect like Kostin, Mikkola or Perunovich. We are definitely going to have to give up something we like.

 

[Blueston]

None of us know how this will all shake out but I'm not going to be shocked by anything. If they wind up signing Pietrangelo, and keep the D in tact, it will make the Faulk acquisition a giant blunder. Faulk isn't good nor does he belong on the left side and paying a 3rd pairing D 6.5 million per year is atrocious cap and roster management.

100% disagree. Adding Faulk gives us perhaps best D in league. He has rough year but is fine player. Nobody anticipated flat cap so we do face squeeze, but Army has always managed to get out from contracts without taking hit.

 

[Blueston]

Retaining 2m for 7 years? I don't expect management to pull the trigger on that...

I think we're going to lose someone we'd rather not as a sweetener to move Allen & Bozak (or a high pick) and see Petro re-sign, then pay ANOTHER sweetner to ship Faulk off to Seattle if Pietrangelo stays with us for a new deal.

Allen will net us a decent a pick. Bozak likely late pick or maybe if he has rough playoffs cost us late pick. This isn’t a catastrophe.

 

[Spektre]

100% disagree. Adding Faulk gives us perhaps best D in league. He has rough year but is fine player. Nobody anticipated flat cap so we do face squeeze, but Army has always managed to get out from contracts without taking hit.

I am not saying Faulk is a bad player. He’s a 3rd pairing D on this roster. 6.5 million is egregious for a 3rd pairing D even if the cap would have been raised by 10 million per year.

 

[Blueston]

I am not saying Faulk is a bad player. He’s a 3rd pairing D on this roster. 6.5 million is egregious for a 3rd pairing D even if the cap would have been raised by 10 million per year.

He isn’t really 3rd pairing. He is #3D on team that places high value on D. They aren’t religious about what side guys play. Look at minutes.

 

[Brockon]

Allen will net us a decent a pick. Bozak likely late pick or maybe if he has rough playoffs cost us late pick. This isn’t a catastrophe.

It's not a catastrophe, but I expect that to move both guys (Allen&Bozak) with no retention is going to cost us an asset. If the cap had gone up as expected, no issue...

But I suspect that we're now going to be competing with other cap ceiling teams trying to unload contracts - meaning the returns will be non existant or will cost us to send guys away without retention.

I also feel confident that Seattle will not pick Faulk without incentive in the form of a prospect or a high pick (3rd or higher).

 

[DatDude44]

Nobody mentioning that we gotta consider Faulk, scandella and schenns raises on top of Petro and dunn.

I think to keep the core we’ll have to move a lot of bodies.

trade Allen, bozak and gunnarsson for picks. Then possibly buyout steen if u need the extra space. His 1.66m cap hit for the extra year shouldn’t effect us much, especially if Faulk goes to Seattle.

 

[The Note]

I really don't think moving Allen will cost the Blues anything. Will they receive much back in return? No. But some team will take a shot on him for one year at his salary. Bozak will likely require some retention or the Blues to add a pick (higher of their 5ths this year?), but I think Bozak at ~$3 - $3.5 AAV for one year would be enticing for some team and could net the Blues a meager return. The more pressing issue -- if they manage to move Bozak/Allen and re-sign Petro will be getting out from under Faulk's contract during the expansion draft. I imagine Seattle will have any team with a bad contract or pushed up against the ceiling trying to do the same. That I would imagine costing the Blues a young forward ala Blais/Sanford or higher pick.

 

[Celtic Note]

I am trying to follow along with the cap conversation as it relates to roster construction. Here are the scenarios I am seeing:

What seems to be the preferred option...
Loose Steen, Allen, Bozak and Faulk. So the roster looks something like this based on our team today (we may need to lose more salary than this):
Sanford-O’Reilly-Perron
Schwartz-Schenn-Tarasenko
Kyrou-Thomas-Sundqvist
Blais-Barbashev-MacEachern

Dunn-Pietrangelo
Scandella-Parayko
Gunnerson/Mikola-Bortuzzo

Binnington
Husso

If we lose Petro instead of Faulk (we probably need to lose more salary):
Sanford-O’Reilly-Perron
Schwartz-Schenn-Tarasenko
Kyrou-Thomas-Sundqvist
Blais-Barbashev-MacEachern

Dunn-Parayko
Scandella-Faulk
Gunnerson/Mikola-Bortuzzo

Binnington
Husso

If we lose Schwartz too (sounds like this is needed to get to cap compliant with raises to younger players)
Sanford-O’Reilly-Perron
Kyrou-Schenn-Tarasenko
Blais-Thomas-Sundqvist
De la Rose-Barbashev-MacEachern

Dunn-Pietrangelo
Scandella-Parayko
Gunnerson/Mikola-Bortuzzo

Binnington
Husso

I am really not liking that last one.

 

[67Blues]

Be glad that the Blues won the Cup when their window was open the widest. I have a feeling this team is going to look remarkedly different come the 21-22 season. That team will still be a upper half team, but not a top 5 Cup favorite team. Too many contracts coming due with not a lot of cap space.

I'm okay using Sanford as trade bait for Faulk. I think Sanford is the second coming of Jaskin with slightly better offensive skills. Not a huge loss. I think Blais will be a solid player going forward. Your next wave forward core coming up will be Blais, Thomas, Kyrou, and maybe Klostin if he figures it all out this year.

 

[Blueston]

I really don't think moving Allen will cost the Blues anything. Will they receive much back in return? No. But some team will take a shot on him for one year at his salary. Bozak will likely require some retention or the Blues to add a pick (higher of their 5ths this year?), but I think Bozak at ~$3 - $3.5 AAV for one year would be enticing for some team and could net the Blues a meager return. The more pressing issue -- if they manage to move Bozak/Allen and re-sign Petro will be getting out from under Faulk's contract during the expansion draft. I imagine Seattle will have any team with a bad contract or pushed up against the ceiling trying to do the same. That I would imagine costing the Blues a young forward ala Blais/Sanford or higher pick.

Faulk is viewed by club as part of core. Not sure why folks think we will pay Seattle to take him.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Faulk is viewed by club as part of core. Not sure why folks think we will pay Seattle to take him.

Armstrong said that in a throwaway comment one time. Assuming Pietro is re-signed, do you think they’ll protect Faulk?

 

[Blueston]

Armstrong said that in a throwaway comment one time. Assuming Pietro is re-signed, do you think they’ll protect Faulk?

Lots can happen between now and then. If he has year I would expect, I think he could be but depends on Dunn. If we deal Dunn they protect Faulk. If Dunn is here, likelihood is he is protected and not Faulk with thinking being that Faulk salary makes him less likely to be taken so we can ultimately keep both.

 

[The Note]

Faulk is viewed by club as part of core. Not sure why folks think we will pay Seattle to take him.

I know Armstrong included him as part of the core in that interview a while back, but if Pietrangelo stays, then jettisoning Faulk may be the only way to keep better, more important parts of the core (i.e. Schwartz and Binnington) around. And paying Seattle to take him is probably the only way we get out from under that contract.

 

[67Blues]

I know Armstrong included him as part of the core in that interview a while back, but if Pietrangelo stays, then jettisoning Faulk may be the only way to keep better, more important parts of the core (i.e. Schwartz and Binnington) around. And paying Seattle to take him is probably the only way we get out from under that contract.

Binnington is the reason that I think they have to move Allen and let Husso (or a way outside chance of Hofer) to get some time between the pipes. If they play well enough, then Binnington loses some leverage. If not, or they keep Allen for next season, then Binnington holds the cards as to what contract he wants.

This is a pretty ugly goaltender list if you are relying on bringing in another goalie 2021 NHL Free Agents Tracker if Binnington walks and they don't feel that Husso is ready.

2021 could be a very ugly year for this team.

 

[rt]

Is there a legitimate chance Pietrangelo walks? Or is his re-signing a fairly foregone conclusion?

 

[The Note]

Is there a legitimate chance Pietrangelo walks? Or is his re-signing a fairly foregone conclusion?

It's definitely possible he walks and I wouldn't call his re-signing a foregone conclusion, but I think it will take a team that is competitive now making a better offer than the Blues for him to walk. He's married to an STL girl and they have a young family (triplets, with another on the way) and I think he knows the legacy he has here being the first Blues captain to win a cup. It will ultimately depend if he wants the absolute highest amount of money -which almost definitely will not come from the Blues- or if he wants to remain a Blue. Both he and Armstrong have said that everyone's intention is to keep him in STL, but that is pretty standard GM/star FA talk. Of course, this is all complicated by the Blues cap situation and how Armstrong navigates that. If I had to guess (this is purely my gut) I'd say it's 60-40 he stays. I don't think Armstrong signed Faulk/Schenn/Scandella long term without having some sort of plan to get out from under some of these contracts to sign Petro.

 

[rt]

It's definitely possible he walks and I wouldn't call his re-signing a foregone conclusion, but I think it will take a team that is competitive now making a better offer than the Blues for him to walk. He's married to an STL girl and they have a young family (triplets, with another on the way) and I think he knows the legacy he has here being the first Blues captain to win a cup. It will ultimately depend if he wants the absolute highest amount of money -which almost definitely will not come from the Blues- or if he wants to remain a Blue. Both he and Armstrong have said that everyone's intention is to keep him in STL, but that is pretty standard GM/star FA talk. Of course, this is all complicated by the Blues cap situation and how Armstrong navigates that. If I had to guess (this is purely my gut) I'd say it's 60-40 he stays. I don't think Armstrong signed Faulk/Schenn/Scandella long term without having some sort of plan to get out from under some of these contracts to sign Petro.

Very interesting. Thanks!

If he does walk, do you think STL would look to replace him?

After getting absolutely smoked by the Avalanche, the general sentiment in Arizona is that the house Chayka built doesn’t have the right core for any amount of sustained success. I expect a lot of big changes. That could include the captain, OEL.

I thought of him as a somewhat appropriate consolation prize for any team, including STL, who has hopes for Pietrangelo’s services.

With Arizona unlikely to retain Hall, and with it being made abundantly clear that some of our more expensive players may not actually be a solution here in AZ, I expect the Coyotes would be willing to take some deadweight back (like Steen).

Any thoughts on OEL for assets+dumps in the event Pietrangelo heads elsewhere?

 

[Alklha]

Very interesting. Thanks!

If he does walk, do you think STL would look to replace him?

After getting absolutely smoked by the Avalanche, the general sentiment in Arizona is that the house Chayka built doesn’t have the right core for any amount of sustained success. I expect a lot of big changes. That could include the captain, OEL.

I thought of him as a somewhat appropriate consolation prize for any team, including STL, who has hopes for Pietrangelo’s services.

With Arizona unlikely to retain Hall, and with it being made abundantly clear that some of our more expensive players may not actually be a solution here in AZ, I expect the Coyotes would be willing to take some deadweight back (like Steen).

Any thoughts on OEL for assets+dumps in the event Pietrangelo heads elsewhere?

I think that Armstrong would be interested, but the price that he'd be willing to pay would be found insulting by the fans.

The ROR trade was a 1st, 2nd, a prospect that we weren't thrilled with the development from and two cap dumps. The Bouwmeester trade was a 1st and two "prospects" with very limited upside. The Faulk trade was a middle pairing defenseman, that we had no interest in signing long term, and a boom-or-bust prospect that we didn't love his draft+1 year from. That's the kind of returns that he's looking to give.

He'd kick the tyres, hope that we only a very short list of teams that OEL would accept a trade to and that the Coyotes really wanted to avoid his signing bonus.

 

[rt]

I think that Armstrong would be interested, but the price that he'd be willing to pay would be found insulting by the fans.

The ROR trade was a 1st, 2nd, a prospect that we weren't thrilled with the development from and two cap dumps. The Bouwmeester trade was a 1st and two "prospects" with very limited upside. The Faulk trade was a middle pairing defenseman, that we had no interest in signing long term, and a boom-or-bust prospect that we didn't love his draft+1 year from. That's the kind of returns that he's looking to give.

He'd kick the tyres, hope that we only a very short list of teams that OEL would accept a trade to and that the Coyotes really wanted to avoid his signing bonus.

OEL+Stepan(50%)+Fischer for R.Thomas+A.Steen+Bortuzzo?

 

[Blueston]

OEL+Stepan(50%)+Fischer for R.Thomas+A.Steen+Bortuzzo?

Pass. Thomas ain't available. And I can't imagine we would want that OEL contract even if he were.

 

[MissouriMook]

Pass. Thomas ain't available. And I can't imagine we would want that OEL contract even if he were.

Agreed. You could put Keller in that deal instead of Stepan and I still wouldn't do it.

 

[67Blues]

OEL has a cap hit of $8.25m if I read it right. That contract and up to $9m will land us Petro (probably closer to $8.25-8.5m). Why wouldn't we just re-sign Petro? What am I missing here?

 

[ChuckLefley]

One thing people aren’t thinking about is that Steen could either retire or go LTIR. That helps us for next year. After sitting out most of this round I think either one has become a very realistic possibility.

When it comes to Seattle a guy like Faulk is perfect. Salary that helps them with the cap floor (an expansion team has to think about that), a veteran who is a bit of a leader and a very good defenseman when he is on his game.