Blues Prospects Thread 2019-2020

[Brock]

Good point. How would you rate Tucker's skating among OHL defensemen? Among those OHL defensemen who are legit NHL prospects?

Average. Meaning at the pro level he'd be slightly below average right now.

He has put in the work to improve it already. No reason to believe that he can't improve further to at least become an average NHL mover.

Patience will likely be required though. But he's a smart defender and brings a lot to the table. Has enough other skills to compensate as lesser skills come up to pro speed next year.

There could be some struggles in his first pro season. But it could get better from there.

Again, he's far from a slam dunk. Few prospects are. But he's definitely worth of time and investment by the Blues, at least IMO.

 

[Ranksu]

Tucker still hasn't signed his entry level deal, does anyone know when the deadline is before he's available to other teams? I know guys like David Noel and Trenton Bourque weren't signed from their respective draft year but Tucker is looking like a much better prospect at least production wise. Laferriere has already signed from the same draft class so that's why I'm wondering.

I would like to know this too.

 

[Blueston]

I didn't realize Perunovich needed to be signed by June 1. Turns out since he was 20 when drafted we don't keep his rights through graduation. Let's hope we sign him as soon as his season ends.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Pronman: Top free agents from college hockey, major junior...

Some familiar names for Blues fans on this list of top junior free agents:

• Scott Perunovich (#1 FA)
• Dmitrij Jaskin
• Josh Dunne (Jincy’s brother)
• Jake Christiansen (prospect camp invite that stuck around pro camp longer than most expected)

 

[execwrite1]

Pronman: Top free agents from college hockey, major junior...

Some familiar names for Blues fans on this list of top junior free agents:

• Scott Perunovich (#1 FA)
• Dmitrij Jaskin
• Josh Dunne (Jincy’s brother)
• Jake Christiansen (prospect camp invite that stuck around pro camp longer than most expected)

Typically, when a top prospect like Perunovich can walk, the buzz around him is significant; and it hasn’t been in his case, which makes me guess he’s likely to sign with the Blues – although I have no direct knowledge one way or the other. He could become a free agent on June 1 if he chose to according to the CBA’s Article 8.6 (c) (v). But the Blues told The Athletic’s Pierre LeBrun that they are confident they will sign him.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Typically, when a top prospect like Perunovich can walk, the buzz around him is significant; and it hasn’t been in his case, which makes me guess he’s likely to sign with the Blues – although I have no direct knowledge one way or the other. He could become a free agent on June 1 if he chose to according to the CBA’s Article 8.6 (c) (v). But the Blues told The Athletic’s Pierre LeBrun that they are confident they will sign him.

Yeah I don’t remember which article it was, but there was a quote (or maybe several) from Perunovich about how much he likes St Louis, and how excited he is to play here. The chances of him signing elsewhere seem pretty slim. Nothing to worry about there

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Who do I get more pissed at if Perunovich doesn't sign here? The Blues for dragging ass or the player himself? Because it was a crazy thought last year but seems like a reality now.

 

[Blueston]

Who do I get more pissed at if Perunovich doesn't sign here? The Blues for dragging ass or the player himself? Because it was a crazy thought last year but seems like a reality now.

How can you blame Blues if player didn't want to leave school? They tried to sign him last year.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I would like to know this too.

Someone else already answered but Tucker has to be signed by 6/1/20 or the Blues lose his rights and he re-enters the draft.

I have no reason to think he won’t he signed by then.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

If we start losing drafted prospects, it’ll be because we don’t have space to put them in the AHL. Either we don’t have a team next year, or we have to go to Chicago, which will force us to max out the allotment of “veteran” spots on the team, and leave only a few spots for new prospects. Pretty sure we lost Gawdin because we didn’t have a team to put him on, and we either told him that he’d have to go to Tulsa or he saw the writing on the wall and refused to sign. That turned out pretty well for him, ultimately.

It’ll be interesting to see how this handcuffs our approach to signing/developing prospects. Nobody wants to go somewhere they won’t play, or their team only has partial say in how much they get to.

But I’m not worried about Perunovich. We’ll find a way to keep him, no matter what. The org seems to love him.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Very interesting that Perunovich can become a free agent this summer. I’m sure I’m not the only one caught a little off guard by that as I though the Blues held his rights until Aug 15, 2021.

Hopefully they can get him signed. Sounds like they still have a good chance to do so so that’s good.

 

[Blueston]

Very interesting that Perunovich can become a free agent this summer. I’m sure I’m not the only one caught a little off guard by that as I though the Blues held his rights until Aug 15, 2021.

Hopefully they can get him signed. Sounds like they still have a good chance to do so so that’s good.

Depending on how long his season goes, he could potentially burn first year of ELC this year if he signs with us rather than elect FA this summer.

 

[MissouriMook]

...Either we don’t have a team next year, or we have to go to Chicago...

You keep posting this but it is simply not true. There will be 31 teams in the NHL next year and 31 teams in the AHL. Each AHL team will affiliate with exactly one NHL team, no more and no less. We may not have an ideal situation, but it is guaranteed that we will have an AHL affiliate of our own, not one that we share with another NHL team. You've been corrected on this several times and I don't honestly know if you've just not been paying attention or if you are somehow eager to spread anxiety over this.

 

[STL fan in MN]

You keep posting this but it is simply not true. There will be 31 teams in the NHL next year and 31 teams in the AHL. Each AHL team will affiliate with exactly one NHL team, no more and no less. We may not have an ideal situation, but it is guaranteed that we will have an AHL affiliate of our own, not one that we share with another NHL team. You've been corrected on this several times and I don't honestly know if you've just not been paying attention or if you are somehow eager to spread anxiety over this.

Yep.

And I’ll add that I doubt the Blues end up with the Wolves. Why? Because given the bad blood between them, I think it’s fair to say both the Blues and Wolves will do pretty much anything they can to not be stuck with each other.

I suspect there will be NHL teams that would be fine affiliating with the Wolves. And there’s already been rumors of teams being interested. That may just result in the Blues affiliate being located somewhere not overly ideal. i.e. probably somewhere on the east coast without great direct flight options.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Depending on how long his season goes, he could potentially burn first year of ELC this year if he signs with us rather than elect FA this summer.

Yeah, I should’ve mentioned that as an option.

And that’s likely the type of incentive the Blues may have to offer to get him to sign and not test UFA.

But that even being an option will likely depend on how long his NCAA season lasts. Winning the National Championship the last 2 years, there were no regular season games left by the time his college season ended. For the Blues sake, it may be best if Minnesota-Duluth gets knocked out sooner this time around.

 

[simon IC]

I posted several times about Perunovich potentially being a UFA. I even suggested using him as trade bait at the TDL instead of a pick for precisely this reason.

 

[Brockon]

Yep.

And I’ll add that I doubt the Blues end up with the Wolves. Why? Because given the bad blood between them, I think it’s fair to say both the Blues and Wolves will do pretty much anything they can to not be stuck with each other.

I suspect there will be NHL teams that would be fine affiliating with the Wolves. And there’s already been rumors of teams being interested. That may just result in the Blues affiliate being located somewhere not overly ideal. i.e. probably somewhere on the east coast without great direct flight options.

I think that a less ideally located affiliate, willing to develop and assign prospects ice times based Blues management's preference would be preferable to the potential of ownership of the Wolves dictating win at all costs.

I don't think the win at all costs model optimizes prospect growth, though having a strong veteran presence to model and help players grow in a winning environment is certainly helpful.

It's a balance, and while I didn't follow the Wolves affiliation particularly closely, most summaries of it suggest that balance was done poorly.

However we didn't have the greatest of prospects forcing their hand for ice time either... I'd think that also played a role. Perunovich and Kostin likely push for middling ice time with any affiliate next year.

 

[Frenzy31]

Alexandrov 1g 4a in one game this weekend.

Lafi had 1g 3a in two games

Tucker 1g 1a and first star in two games

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I think that a less ideally located affiliate, willing to develop and assign prospects ice times based Blues management's preference would be preferable to the potential of ownership of the Wolves dictating win at all costs.

I don't think the win at all costs model optimizes prospect growth, though having a strong veteran presence to model and help players grow in a winning environment is certainly helpful.

It's a balance, and while I didn't follow the Wolves affiliation particularly closely, most summaries of it suggest that balance was done poorly.

However we didn't have the greatest of prospects forcing their hand for ice time either... I'd think that also played a role. Perunovich and Kostin likely push for middling ice time with any affiliate next year.

Not to single you out, but here's a rough breakdown of the Blues' prospects (draft picks) and games played for the Wolves.

Name	Seasons	Games Played
Allen	13-14	52
Fairchild	13-14	33 (injured)
McRae	14-15	67
Shields	13-14 14-15	55 42
Shattock	13-14	61
Andronov	13-14	53
Ponich	13-14	14
Beach	13-14 14-15 15-16	34 41 25
Hakanpaa	13-14 14-15	54 64
Wannstrom	13-14 14-15	37 36
Veilleux	13-14 14-15 15-16	4 64 72
Binnington	13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17	1 45 41 32
Edmundson	13-14 14-15 15-16	64 30 6 (called up)
Jaskin	13-14 14-15 15-16	42 18 3 (called up)
Rattie	13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17	72 59 62 22
Lindbohm	13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17	53 43 52 23
Parayko	14-15	17 (college)
MacEachern	16-17 17-18	55 46
Schmaltz	15-16 16-17	71 42
Blais	16-17	75
Husso	16-17	22
Walman	16-17 17-18	7 40
Barbashev	15-16 16-17 17-18	65 46 20 (called up)
Fabbri	14-15	3 (juniors)
Dunn	16-17 17-18	72 2 (called up)
Bleakley	16-16 17-18	45 7
Kyrou	16-17	1 (juniors)
Thompson	16-17	16 (college)
Musil	16-17	2 (juniors)
Vanelli	15-16	7 (injured)
Pochiro	15-16	1
Lundstrom	13-14 15-16	1 4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ChicagoBlues]

4 goalies got in 198 games across 4 seasons.

11 defensemen got in 791 games across 4 seasons.

17 forwards got in 1154 games across 4 seasons.

TOI may be measured by the AHL, but not published, as far as I know.

There's a quick breakdown.

Interpret it as you wish, but it seems to me there was some decent opportunity for development.

The 13-14 season had 11 Blues prospects play in games.
15-16 14 prospects
16-17 12 prospects.
17-18 5 prospects. This was the split season.

Some of these numbers might be a little off, but this is just a quick breakdown in my little spare time.

Question now is, How does this compare to other NHL teams?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

All this is to say that it is not the end of the world if the Blues must affiliate with Chicago again.

If the Wolves' coaches don't spend time developing the Blues' prospects, then the Blues FO has the responsibility to do that.

If the Blues FO can't do that, then that's a problem.

 

[ezcreepin]

All this is to say that it is not the end of the world if the Blues must affiliate with Chicago again.

If the Wolves' coaches don't spend time developing the Blues' prospects, then the Blues FO has the responsibility to do that.

If the Blues FO can't do that, then that's a problem.

Well how exactly do you suppose the Blues are supposed to develop these prospects when they're technically Wolves property while they're in Chicago? You can't just have them go to practice with the Wolves, then go to practice with Blues-hired coaches teaching them what the Blues want, and then expect them to retain both sets of information and do what both coaches and systems want; it's rather unrealistic. This is the purpose of having an affiliate that aligns with what the NHL club wants, rather than both teams having their own agenda. There may be some leeway with how the Blues can suggest things be done in Chicago, but ultimately Chicago makes the final decisions, so if they feel their guys they hired/signed will fit their m.o., then that's what their going with. The reason why the Blues prospects over the course of their time with the Wolves had a bunch of games played is the way the AHL deals with their teams. Of the 18 skaters that dress each game, 13 of those are considered development players, 12 of which cannot have played more than 260 professional games (including euro) and 1 cannot have played 320 pro games. Technically, the Wolves can sign as many players as they want, hypothetically the entire team they decide to ice, and leave the Blues prospects in the stands. Of course there would be a lot of controversy, and admittedly the Blues have players that the Wolves just wont be able to sign who are much better than any player they'd want to get.

Before the Blues decided to part ways, I remember hearing frustration because the Blues wanted a certain type of coaching but the Wolves wouldn't budge, or at least something to that extent. They weren't taking the time to invest in the Blues players and only focused on winning (which is directly antithetical to the AHL's core message). So there are a lot of issues dealing with the Wolves. Will it be as bad as we're thinking? Probably not, but its another couple of years where we don't have sole control over how the team operates, which is increasingly frustrating when we are having a hard time developing top notch prospects like other teams.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Well how exactly do you suppose the Blues are supposed to develop these prospects when they're technically Wolves property while they're in Chicago? You can't just have them go to practice with the Wolves, then go to practice with Blues-hired coaches teaching them what the Blues want, and then expect them to retain both sets of information and do what both coaches and systems want; it's rather unrealistic. This is the purpose of having an affiliate that aligns with what the NHL club wants, rather than both teams having their own agenda. There may be some leeway with how the Blues can suggest things be done in Chicago, but ultimately Chicago makes the final decisions, so if they feel their guys they hired/signed will fit their m.o., then that's what their going with. The reason why the Blues prospects over the course of their time with the Wolves had a bunch of games played is the way the AHL deals with their teams. Of the 18 skaters that dress each game, 13 of those are considered development players, 12 of which cannot have played more than 260 professional games (including euro) and 1 cannot have played 320 pro games. Technically, the Wolves can sign as many players as they want, hypothetically the entire team they decide to ice, and leave the Blues prospects in the stands. Of course there would be a lot of controversy, and admittedly the Blues have players that the Wolves just wont be able to sign who are much better than any player they'd want to get.

Before the Blues decided to part ways, I remember hearing frustration because the Blues wanted a certain type of coaching but the Wolves wouldn't budge, or at least something to that extent. They weren't taking the time to invest in the Blues players and only focused on winning (which is directly antithetical to the AHL's core message). So there are a lot of issues dealing with the Wolves. Will it be as bad as we're thinking? Probably not, but its another couple of years where we don't have sole control over how the team operates, which is increasingly frustrating when we are having a hard time developing top notch prospects like other teams.

Case in point: we signed Rob O’Gara to an AHL contract last summer, but sent him to Springfield after it became clear that he wasn’t going to get any ice time. He wasn’t getting ice time because we had Walman, Mikkola, Reinke, and Borgman that we wanted to play every night, in as many situations as possible. The same thing happened last year with Sam Lofquist.

In Chicago, it’s very likely that doesn’t happen. Rob O’Gara is an NHL vet with some level of name recognition, that they could market to fans. They wouldn’t have let us give him away for free so our cobbled-together corps of D-prospects could play and lose a bunch of games - which they have. But doing so has arguably made it easier for those prospects to slide in and perform well during their cups of coffee - which they also have. Instead, O’Gara would be a regular, and two of our guys would have to rotate in.

Chicago wants to sign AHL vets to 3-4 year contracts, which essentially locks in that arrangement, so they can market their players. That limits the amount of players we can sign for our own purposes. Wanna sign some free agent college player or even our own prospects (Tucker and Perunovich, for example)? Sorry, that roster spot is taken for the duration of what would be their ELC by an AHL vet. Or, we would choose between letting a guy like Walman go so we can bring in those guys, in which case you’re losing your homegrown AHL-leadership and all of the development time you’ve sunk into them, just so you can potentially have to sit your new guys anyways, or try to get them to go to the ECHL. In which case the team sucks, and the prospects aren’t developing, so neither CHI nor STL is happy. That’s basically what happened last time, except with goalies (Copley, Binnington, and Husso).

It’s just a bad relationship with a misguided ownership group that I’m not thrilled about rekindling.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

We may have no choice, but to figure out a way to help them develop.

how? Dunno

My little exercise there was simply to point out that the prior relationship was not so one-sided.

 

[Celtic Note]

Is the argument that you cannot develop players if you are focused on winning? The Blues are focused on winning and many players have developed on the NHL squad.

I get that not owning an AHL team can be onerous and not particularly idea, but the Blues chose to be exposed to this type of risk by not owning their own farm. Despite those challenges we won a Cup with a large chunk of our team coming through the Wolves farm.