Blues Prospects Thread 2018-2019

[Stealth JD]

You dont care what professionals have to say?

Kyrou's skating alone is going to negate most checks and given where the NHL is headed, Kyrou's physical attributes will he even more pronounced. Developing the strength will come, it not like he's 5'8 160.

The same professionals who allowed him to slip to #35 in the draft? The average 2nd rounder has a ~ 35% chance of playing 100 games or more in his career. His pedigree certainly hasn't improved any by padding stats against teenagers. The concerns from then are just as valid now, though he has done everything you'd hope a draftee to do in his development. But I've still never seen him win a board-battle...small sample size and all. And as much as I'd like to think he's going to go walk the veteran NHL defenseman, there's a better chance of Kyrou being put on his ass when the defender plays the man then pulling off junior moves in the NHL.

I'm genuinely pumped that so many people think so highly of the kid, because I'd love for nothing more than the Blues to have to somehow accommodate another lethal scorer on their NHL roster. But wanting to see how a guy who's basically been described as "shying away from physical contact" and "doesn't win many one-on-one battles" performs in the AHL before anointing him a roster-spot shouldn't be considered some sort of heresy on this board. I've seen everything from Kyrou being penciled into the 1st line on opening night to saying he's untouchable in a trade for legitimate first-line NHL'ers...and I'm trolling? Gimme a ****ing break.

 

[Dbrownss]

The same professionals who allowed him to slip to #35 in the draft? The average 2nd rounder has a ~ 35% chance of playing 100 games or more in his career. His pedigree certainly hasn't improved any by padding stats against teenagers. The concerns from then are just as valid now, though he has done everything you'd hope a draftee to do in his development. But I've still never seen him win a board-battle...small sample size and all. And as much as I'd like to think he's going to go walk the veteran NHL defenseman, there's a better chance of Kyrou being put on his ass then pulling off junior moves in the NHL.

I'm genuinely pumped that so many people think so highly of the kid, because I'd love for nothing more than the Blues to have to somehow accommodate another lethal scorer on their NHL roster. But wanting to see how a guy who's basically been described as "shying away from physical contact" and "doesn't win many one-on-one battles" performs in the AHL before anointing him a roster-spot shouldn't be considered some sort of heresy on this board. I've seen everything from Kyrou being penciled into the 1st line on opening night to saying he's untouchable in a trade for legitimate first-line NHL'ers...and I'm trolling? Gimme a ****ing break.

So now draft position.... man, your all over the place here. Guys slip all the time due to a team having JUST 1 guy a head of him. That shouldn't have any impact on a guy who's draft+2. He has absolutely increased his stock as he's been listed 15th on Buttons list and 19th on Pronmans list.

His board battling will improve as he gets more experience. He's not tiny and has an average frame. If this is all your focusing on, then whatever. Well see over the next few years.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Kostin slipped to 31 - basically a 2nd round pick any other year.

 

[Stealth JD]

So now draft position.... man, your all over the place here. Guys slip all the time due to a team having JUST 1 guy a head of him. That shouldn't have any impact on a guy who's draft+2. He has absolutely increased his stock as he's been listed 15th on Buttons list and 19th on Pronmans list.

His board battling will improve as he gets more experience. He's not tiny and has an average frame. If this is all your focusing on, then whatever. Well see over the next few years.

Just using the “professionals say” angle you brought into the discussion. if you’re going to appeal to authority, would that not be a valid counter-argument?

 

[Dbrownss]

Just using the “professionals say” angle you brought into the discussion. if you’re going to appeal to authority, would that not be a valid counter-argument?

Your going off of team scouts, which is different then guys who watch them predraft and onward. Especially given the body of work Kyrou has now

 

[Xerloris]

The same professionals who allowed him to slip to #35 in the draft? The average 2nd rounder has a ~ 35% chance of playing 100 games or more in his career. His pedigree certainly hasn't improved any by padding stats against teenagers. The concerns from then are just as valid now, though he has done everything you'd hope a draftee to do in his development. But I've still never seen him win a board-battle...small sample size and all. And as much as I'd like to think he's going to go walk the veteran NHL defenseman, there's a better chance of Kyrou being put on his ass when the defender plays the man then pulling off junior moves in the NHL.

I'm genuinely pumped that so many people think so highly of the kid, because I'd love for nothing more than the Blues to have to somehow accommodate another lethal scorer on their NHL roster. But wanting to see how a guy who's basically been described as "shying away from physical contact" and "doesn't win many one-on-one battles" performs in the AHL before anointing him a roster-spot shouldn't be considered some sort of heresy on this board. I've seen everything from Kyrou being penciled into the 1st line on opening night to saying he's untouchable in a trade for legitimate first-line NHL'ers...and I'm trolling? Gimme a ****ing break.

That's exactly how NHL defensemen play now. Have you seen Parayko with his size and skill do nothing but poke check? Shits an embarrassment.

 

[STLegend]

The same professionals who allowed him to slip to #35 in the draft? The average 2nd rounder has a ~ 35% chance of playing 100 games or more in his career. His pedigree certainly hasn't improved any by padding stats against teenagers. The concerns from then are just as valid now, though he has done everything you'd hope a draftee to do in his development. But I've still never seen him win a board-battle...small sample size and all. And as much as I'd like to think he's going to go walk the veteran NHL defenseman, there's a better chance of Kyrou being put on his ass when the defender plays the man then pulling off junior moves in the NHL.

I'm genuinely pumped that so many people think so highly of the kid, because I'd love for nothing more than the Blues to have to somehow accommodate another lethal scorer on their NHL roster. But wanting to see how a guy who's basically been described as "shying away from physical contact" and "doesn't win many one-on-one battles" performs in the AHL before anointing him a roster-spot shouldn't be considered some sort of heresy on this board. I've seen everything from Kyrou being penciled into the 1st line on opening night to saying he's untouchable in a trade for legitimate first-line NHL'ers...and I'm trolling? Gimme a ****ing break.

After all the hype and his stat lines, I expected to be wowed by him at the past WJC. I was very underwhelmed though TBH, he seemed to float around and get knocked off the puck very easily. He didn't seem feisty enough to battle for space and puck possession. He strikes me as someone who has always been more talented than his peers and therefor has never had to try very hard. I would've rather sent him in the O'Reilly trade than Thompson, and I think Buffalo felt the same way rather than him "not being available" in the Blues eyes. I don't see him making the team out of camp, so maybe he can prove me wrong in the AHL.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I didn’t watch the WJC, so I’ve been going back and watching it today. I just finished the CAN-SWE final.

Kyrou and Thomas had strong games, but nothing mind blowing. Kyrou with the assist on the first goal and some good power play action. He looks like he needs to play the game faster with the puck on his stick - but I’ll give him a pass for now because this was a very tight game that was played at NHL playoff hockey speed, IMO. Kyrou’s one-timer looked more deadly to me than I remembered. He also wasn’t afraid to go to the net and get engaged in board battles. A few of his passes got pick in the offensive zone when he tried to thread the needle or the receiving player got interested with. Overall, a good game considering the defense played on both sides was fairly smothering. I wish Kyrou was more aggressive, but his calmness lead to better defensive positioning.

Thomas made some excellent plays and impressed me with his speed. Both players made good short passes to move the play ahead.

I’ll watch the USA-CAN game next.

 

[Dbrownss]

I didn’t watch the WJC, so I’ve been going back and watching it today. I just finished the CAN-SWE final.

Kyrou and Thomas had strong games, but nothing mind blowing. Kyrou with the assist on the first goal and some good power play action. He looks like he needs to play the game faster with the puck on his stick - but I’ll give him a pass for now because this was a very tight game that was played at NHL playoff hockey speed, IMO. Kyrou’s one-timer looked more deadly to me than I remembered. He also wasn’t afraid to go to the net and get engaged in board battles. A few of his passes got pick in the offensive zone when he tried to thread the needle or the receiving player got interested with. Overall, a good game considering the defense played on both sides was fairly smothering. I wish Kyrou was more aggressive, but his calmness lead to better defensive positioning.

Thomas made some excellent plays and impressed me with his speed. Both players made good short passes to move the play ahead.

I’ll watch the USA-CAN game next.

I pegged the lack of dynamic play to coaching. They played a tight system and Kyrou bought in instead of doing his thing.

 

[OSA]

My concern with Kyrou is his compete level. I think he gives up on pucks a little easily and, in tighter checking games, he has a tendency to be neutralized. I think learning from a guy like Schwartz (when the time is right) will pay dividends going forward. That being said, he may end up being one of the more frustrating players for some Blues fans (ie always leaving you wanting just a little more).

Edit: I fall in the camp that Kyrou would have to have something go seriously wrong in order for him to not be anything more than NHL depth. While I don’t think he has the straight away speed of some of the fastest players in the NHL, his agility is among the best I’ve ever seen coming out of the OHL. I’ve seen him curl at the offensive blue line while keeping the puck on-side and the defender shielded and been left unable to understand for the life of me how he didn’t lose an edge. I think comparing Kyrou’s uptempo abilities to Barzal is fair, but to me, where is he really can shine is in his ability to slow the game down in the offensive zone and employ more a surgical attacking style. His quick start and stop abilities, his use of sudden bursts of speed to find empty space, his elite agility all work in concert with tremendous stickhandling, sublime passing abilities and an underrated, accurate shot to create myriad problems for defenders.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Kyrou nearly blew by USA’s #12 for a breakaway in the third, but by then there was three inches of snow in the ice.

I agree with the assessment that the coaching limited Kyrou’s explosiveness in transition. He’s constnstly getting the puck and then sitting inside the blue line to pass to the late man. That’s just not Kyrou’s game. Too many opportunities for Kyrou to turn on the Jets and drive the net. He still circled the offensive zone like a shark on the cycle a la Barzal, but he just wasn’t as dangerous without being able to use his skating to his fullest.

He was still deadly on the power play and played defensively well. The stick handling was weaker than I’d like in this game, though. Given the game conditions, it’s not surprising.

Kyrou allows Tkachuk to tie the game by playing weak defense in the slot. Tkachuk wasn’t his man, but he should have been more engaged.

Kyrou started with Steel and Mete in OT; the coach definitely seems to be letting them play more loose, and this trio seems to really work well together with all the space. Kyrou’s centering pass to Steel fails as Steel is hounded. On Kyrou’s next shift, Steel worked a play into the zone and Kyrou wheeled behind him to receive a pass in the high slot... only for the 2:50 whistle to blow and have the teams switch sides. Kyrou kept the pressure in after the whistle and looked like vintage Barzal. His skating and hands are really something. He makes a beautiful pass to Steel after burning Tkachuk.

Side note: Blues prospect to-be Scott Perunivich with a little bit of a give-and-go to Tkachuk on the power play that leads to a goal in the third.

Other sidenote: Brady Tkachuk is hilarious.

I’ll take a look at the FIN-CAN game next.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

CAN-FIN:
Kyrou with a win in the o-zone, drives the net from the right Wall and makes a quick short pass to Steel on the power play to make it 2-0.

Kyrou with a nice steal in the second to drive play the other way.

Kyrou with a give-and-go through the neutral zone, then becomes the third man in and drives the net for a good shot on goal.

Kyrou is a one-man cycle on the power play. His ability to shoot accurately while moving quickly is impressive.

Kyrou did a lot of the dirty work at the blue line to keep the play in and to push the puck out.

Thomas with some solid, pro plays throughout the game. He’s a good one. He was asked to take a lot of the key faceoffs, and his defensive play was excellent.

 

[Chief Steele]

So.. I like Kyrou and think he will be a solid player for us, but... his size may hurt him DB I hear what your saying he has all the tools but Stealth has a valid point, IF he gets tagged like DP did by Thornton or a cheap shot like Wilson did last year in the preseason and gets a concussion then he may be a little gun shy after that, if he can come back. Now if that was to happen some would call that a bust. I want him to be as good as we all think he can be but don't think guys will not be gunning for him so see if he can hold up. just my 2 cents...

 

[Dbrownss]

So.. I like Kyrou and think he will be a solid player for us, but... his size may hurt him DB I hear what your saying he has all the tools but Stealth has a valid point, IF he gets tagged like DP did by Thornton or a cheap shot like Wilson did last year in the preseason and gets a concussion then he may be a little gun shy after that, if he can come back. Now if that was to happen some would call that a bust. I want him to be as good as we all think he can be but don't think guys will not be gunning for him so see if he can hold up. just my 2 cents...

Kyrou is NOT small..... were not talking about someone's who's 5'8 160lbs. There's zero reason to speculate him receiving a dirty hit, and ruining his career. That applies to literally every player in the NHL, not just Kyrou. Look atMcDavid, ran into the boards and broke his collar bone....didnt deter him at all from entering the zone at full speed.


Some are just reaching for reasons to disparage Kyrou.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Kyrou is 6'0 175lb. If we're playing the "dirty hits could ruin his career game", then I don't know what to say. That's true for literally every player. But to put you at ease, he's way faster and more shifty than Perron ever was, and isn't nearly the rat.

 

[Chief Steele]

I never disparaged him, I made a statement I also stated that I want him to be successful, when I see him on the ice I think Paul K. and seen how concussions hurt his career. and your right it applies to everyone to include Fabbs and his knee... We all have question the notions because look at some of the players that have been hyped by the Blues and others and when they do not meet that expectation we call them a bust.. no one here wants him to be a bust we are just cautiously optimistic..

 

[Dbrownss]

I never disparaged him, I made a statement I also stated that I want him to be successful, when I see him on the ice I think Paul K. and seen how concussions hurt his career. and your right it applies to everyone to include Fabbs and his knee... We all have question the notions because look at some of the players that have been hyped by the Blues and others and when they do not meet that expectation we call them a bust.. no one here wants him to be a bust we are just cautiously optimistic..

That wasn't really directed at you, outside of the size comment. I would be genuinely surprised if Kyrou weighed less then 185/90 in September. For a few seasons Fabbri was always 170lbs till he weighed in at 195ish. It's just not a precision metric from year to year. Sometimes its outdated or not reported. I have no issue with people being cautious. That's not the case with some who are outright taking a 180°outlook on him.

Vincenzo nor myself are guaranteeing Kyrou to be a lock 1st liner. That's just his upside, which is echoed by professionals who do this for a living. I also wouldn't consider him a bust if his career was sidelined by injury like Fabbri. It can happen to anyone regardless of size. In Fabbri's case, he was ran into the boards while off balance. That can happen to anyone.

 

[Stealth JD]

For the record, i've never been concerned with Kyrou's size or ability to take a hit.
I'm concerned about his compete level and ability to go into the corner and come out with the puck.
His skills have never been questioned. It's his willingness and tenacity that need proving in the pro ranks.

 

[Frenzy31]

When was the last time Tarasenko won a board battle or competed hard in the defensive zone?

Players have different roles on the team. I am not worried about compete level. He worked his behind off last preseason

 

[Dbrownss]

For the record, i've never been concerned with Kyrou's size or ability to take a hit.
I'm concerned about his compete level and ability to go into the corner and come out with the puck.
His skills have never been questioned. It's his willingness and tenacity that need proving in the pro ranks.

That's fine and acceptable, but not everyone has to be Jaden Schwartz. If he displayed those traits at the junior level coupled with his natural gifts....we don't draft him. Now to he fair his offense has greatly improved since draft year.

Here's my take on the lack of "comepete".

He doesn't have to keep the peddle down. He dominates the ice with his tools and it's not uncommon for uber skilled players to do that. Kyrou is better utilized getting the puck from a mucker and then making a play as opposed to digging it out and being neutralized in the corner. Look at Tarasenko, it's a critisism of him and it's not hindered him from being an NHL player. He has 1 elite tools and that's his shot.

To me, Kyrou's positives greatly outweighs his negatives.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

When was the last time Tarasenko won a board battle or competed hard in the defensive zone?

Players have different roles on the team. I am not worried about compete level. He worked his behind off last preseason

I will say that's the thing that keeps him from literally being Barzal, IMO: he needs to be more aggressive all around. The question I have is: Does he have that gear but just doesn't want to be a puck hog when he's obviously the best player on the ice, or does he need to develop that gear? Barzal has no problem with holding on to the puck for 5 minutes and being a one man transition, but he also has a very cocky attitude and is on a team that had no discernible defense to transition the puck last year. Kyrou has never had this issue, and won't have it here either. I know he has the ability to just take over games (I've seen him do it multiple times), but it seems like the coaches are more interested in working on his defensive game, and showing that he can play a less wide open offense. This is great and all, but I hope he comes into camp with the confidence to just let the magic happen. He has all the talent to be Barzal, he just needs to grab the puck and asseert his dominance.

 

[Dbrownss]

It also needs to be said that Barzal wasnt "Barzal" till he was.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

It also needs to be said that Barzal wasnt "Barzal" till he was.

Absolutely, but he always had the skating, aggressiveness, and vision. I would rank Kyrou's shot as better than Barzal's, actually - even Kyrou's skating. It's that aggressiveness that really sets them apart.

Just watching Kyrou you can see how fluid he is both in his feet and his hands. His hands are just ridiculously soft - almost to the point where it looks like his stick is made of rubber when he doesn't have the puck. The jury is still out as to who has the best sauce, but that's more on account of sample-size from my viewings; in Sarnia he didn't really need to use it as much as he will in the NHL. I just really hope he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and doesn't shy away from betting on his talent in the ozone - and I hope the coaches have the understanding to let him try and adapt instead of repressing it.

 

[Chief Steele]

Absolutely, but he always had the skating, aggressiveness, and vision. I would rank Kyrou's shot as better than Barzal's, actually - even Kyrou's skating. It's that aggressiveness that really sets them apart.

Just watching Kyrou you can see how fluid he is both in his feet and his hands. His hands are just ridiculously soft - almost to the point where it looks like his stick is made of rubber when he doesn't have the puck. The jury is still out as to who has the best sauce, but that's more on account of sample-size from my viewings; in Sarnia he didn't really need to use it as much as he will in the NHL. I just really hope he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and doesn't shy away from betting on his talent in the ozone - and I hope the coaches have the understanding to let him try and adapt instead of repressing it.

Its Yeo... that's what you have to remember... If Kyrou goes to the AHL I think Bannister will turn him loose and let him adapt, Yeo may hamper him he may not I think he knows his job is on the line.. with the team STL has now...

 

[Bluesnatic27]

It also needs to be said that Barzal wasnt "Barzal" till he was.

Honestly, this is kind of the reasoning I have that goes against Kyrou.

It's not that I don't see his potential or his strengths. It's not even like I think his defense or lack of physicality will be what ruins his career, or anything like that. It's that I don't know how translatable that kind of playstyle is in the NHL. I know people will point to what Barzal just did last season in pure befuddlement, but that's just one data point. I have no clue how well that kind of game works in the NHL because Barzal is such a unique player. The best comparable I've seen to how Barzal controls the puck in the NHL is Patrick Kane, but Kane is elite in other areas while Barzal is not. His skating is phenomenal, but I wouldn't say the same for any other aspect of his game. So is it a case where Barzal caught lightning in a bottle, or that kind of game can excel in today's NHL? I don't know and that's what gives me concern. If it's the former, then Kyrou will need to re-evaluate himself, because I still wouldn't rate Kyrou higher than Barzal given their respective times in juniors. But if it's the latter, then Kyrou can easily be a 60+ point, 40+ assist player.

In the end, Kyrou is an innovative player. There are risks that come with innovation, namely being replication. Unfortunately for Kyrou, the only way to really silence this fear is to see how he succeeds in the NHL. I'm more than willing to give him 100 games to see how he fairs, because short-term success or failure shouldn't be a final sentence on his career. But as of now, I still view Kyrou as an enigma. An enigma with the potential to become a super-star, mind you, but still an enigma nonetheless.