Blues Forum Lounge (Home of All Things OT) - Part 2018

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TheDizee

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Apr 5, 2014
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I assumed he was talking about Jose, not Carlos. I recant my statement if he meant Carlos.
Talking bout Jose.

this team needs to focus on pitching and defense. They scored plenty of runs this week outside of 1 or 2 games to win but couldnt pitch or defend to save their pathetic lives. You saw errors left and right and the pitching staff falling behind counts and giving up early runs constantly. They literally did not play with a lead this entire week from Tuesday until Saturday, and only had a lead on Monday for roughly 1/2 a inning.

Jose is a good player but hes the token DH. His value is high right now, as is Munoz's. You could easily package those two together for a elite player. I am willing to give Wong another shot at it since he played well post-ASB, and he played well defensively. You have Gyroko platoon with him at 2B. Now you go out and find a 3B/1B.

The main problem with this club is the fact that they do not have a true ace, a true closer and any shutdown options from the leftside in the bullpen. The offense was good enough to be a playoff team this season, the pitching was the main problem and it showed this week.

O'neill is ready to platoon, Bader is a future all star and Ozuna is going to be a main cog moving forward. An ace, a PROVEN elite closer and some bullpen moves are mandatory this offseason.

This ofcourse will not happen, because Mo is a terrible judge of talent and roster construction.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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Talking bout Jose.

this team needs to focus on pitching and defense. They scored plenty of runs this week outside of 1 or 2 games to win but couldnt pitch or defend to save their pathetic lives. You saw errors left and right and the pitching staff falling behind counts and giving up early runs constantly. They literally did not play with a lead this entire week from Tuesday until Saturday, and only had a lead on Monday for roughly 1/2 a inning.

Jose is a good player but hes the token DH. His value is high right now, as is Munoz's. You could easily package those two together for a elite player. I am willing to give Wong another shot at it since he played well post-ASB, and he played well defensively. You have Gyroko platoon with him at 2B. Now you go out and find a 3B/1B.

The main problem with this club is the fact that they do not have a true ace, a true closer and any shutdown options from the leftside in the bullpen. The offense was good enough to be a playoff team this season, the pitching was the main problem and it showed this week.

O'neill is ready to platoon, Bader is a future all star and Ozuna is going to be a main cog moving forward. An ace, a PROVEN elite closer and some bullpen moves are mandatory this offseason.

This ofcourse will not happen, because Mo is a terrible judge of talent and roster construction.

The pitching is more just the young guys running out of gas. Flaherty, Gomber, Hicks, etc, all just started getting tired. They've been carrying this team since Shildt took over. I definitely don't disagree with you that the Cardinals need a proven Ace, but that's hard to come by right now. They missed their chance when Scherzer all but said he'd take a hometown discount to pitch for St. Louis and Mo and DeWitt ignored him. Now, they are regretting that move. I love Waino, but he's not an ace anymore. Mikolas isn't an ace. C. Mart is a solid #2 starter on any roster. I think the young pitching looks bright for St. Louis. They really need to fix the bullpen and add a middle of the order bat.

Harper is who I'd lay out a blank check for,but I know DeWitt and Mo won't. An outfield of Ozuna, Bader, and Harper would be outstanding. Hell, if you wanted to, sign Harper and trade Ozuna and put O'Neill out there. If they want to improve defense as you're suggesting, then they need to move DeJong to 3B, get a SS. They also need to NEVER let J. Martinez or Fowler see the OF again. Wong is an excellent defensive 2B, but he's an offensive hole that's hard to fill, so it's really a question of who you can get to play SS and if that person can hit.

The Cardinals' position players are like a grouping of players who can do 1 or 2 things really well, but suck at everything else. They don't have any players who are the whole package really. Wong is an amazing defender, only ok at the plate. DeJong is a solid defender, has power, but strikes out too much, same with O'Neill. Bader is an amazing defensive CF and decent at the plate but not consistent at the plate. Ozuna is an up and down roller coaster and an average defender. Molina is about as close to a whole package player as they have any more. The problem is his age. When is it finally going to give out? M.Carpenter is a solid hitter and great OBP guy, although it seems only from 1 spot in the lineup, and an average defender at 1B but not great any where else. Munoz is a Ben Zobrist type with a solid bat, but he's not great anywhere. J. Martinez is a consistent hitter but awful, AWFUL defensively, and the list goes on. The Cardinals need that bonafide superstart and unless the give a blank check to Machado, Harper, or move a ton to get one, they aren't getting a superstar any time soon.

It was also WAY to early to sign Shildt. I would have waited until at least the offseason. I think this should be Mozielak's last shot at rebuilding the Cardinals. If it fails again next year, then Girst and Mo need to be gone, maybe to just appease the fan base. The Cardinals had an unprecedented run of success from 2000 to 2015 but that time is definitely over. It's time to get this franchise rebuilt.
 

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The Cards are the Minnesota Wild of the MLB right now. They're solid, they have some good players, but no real superstar. Carpenter was that for a couple of months, and in those months we were winning with regularity. Then he cools off and so does the team. Mikolas was a top 5 starter in the NL this year, but it remains to be seen if he can repeat it. We still really need to middle of the order bat. Ozuna could be a Holliday type player if we had a Pujols in front of him. Great hitter in his own right, but really becomes a threat with runners on and you have to throw him a strike.

Manny Machado would make this team a true contender. That instantly helps our defense(imagine Wong and Machado up the middle with Bader in center....) and he's a great hitter who could bat 2nd or 3rd in front of Ozuna. I know it's not going to happen, the Yankees or the Dodgers will outbid us badly, but I can hope. I'd also love to see Keuchel or Corbin brought in to add a lefty to our starting rotation. I'm not an Austin Gomber believer at all. Nor a John Gant believer for that matter.

All in all the core of the team isn't enough to win. Matt Carpenter and Marcel Ozuna cannot be your best hitters if you expect to win. I know Mo knows this, but I doubt he'll really do anything about it as they just moved some of their prized prospects last offseason and they never spend big on free agents. They'll probably just look for internal improvement and add a couple of veteran lottery tickets and hope to get lucky. The thing is, we did get lucky this year with Miles Mikolas. That was a great signing. It just wasn't enough. We plucked an ace out of the sky and it still wasn't enough to carry this mediocre offense and mediocre defense to the playoffs. I'd rather see the team go full tank mode than try to win without adding a significant piece to this core group. It's not good enough to truly compete.
 

Saint Loser

"(they) are unavoidably unsafe" - SCOTUS
Mar 16, 2018
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Talk about bandwagon.

Yes, Carlos.

No, not a DH waiting to happen.

Did you fall off recently?

Cards fans jump at the first bumb.

So it looks like he’s talking about Jose.

Whatev bro.

Have a wonderful day! [READ: Kiss my grits.]
 

David Dennison

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From an asset management perspective, I don't get the trade Martinez talk. Mikolaus is 3 years older, is a FA after this year and has less of a track record in the majors. I don't know what Martinez would get you but it seems like the birds would be eating a lot of downside risk in trading the cost controlled Martinez at a low value point and re-sign Mikolaus at a high value point as he enters his 30s.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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From an asset management perspective, I don't get the trade Martinez talk. Mikolaus is 3 years older, is a FA after this year and has less of a track record in the majors. I don't know what Martinez would get you but it seems like the birds would be eating a lot of downside risk in trading the cost controlled Martinez at a low value point and re-sign Mikolaus at a high value point as he enters his 30s.

I think most people want to trade Jose, not Carlos.
 

David Dennison

I'm a tariff, man.
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I think most people want to trade Jose, not Carlos.
Yeah I understand that, but others in here have talked about trading K-Mart. I would be okay with trading Jose, there is no place for him moving forward.

In other news, Kroenke is still an ass, but lawsuits against him/NFL keep moving forward. Hopefully they settle, the NFL doesn't want their relocation dirty laundry aired in court.

Rams, Kroenke lose another round in court over St. Louis move | Law and order | stltoday.com
 

bluesfan94

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If they want to improve defense as you're suggesting, then they need to move DeJong to 3B, get a SS.
DeJong was a good defensive SS this year.

The Cardinals need to sign Donaldson cheap, let pitching develop, and be happy. The young arms we have are more than enough to fill a rotation. Flaherty, Gomber, Hudson, Reyes, Martinez, Mikolas, Wacha is enough depth to fill a very good rotation and no true ace will be available.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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DeJong was a good defensive SS this year.

The Cardinals need to sign Donaldson cheap, let pitching develop, and be happy. The young arms we have are more than enough to fill a rotation. Flaherty, Gomber, Hudson, Reyes, Martinez, Mikolas, Wacha is enough depth to fill a very good rotation and no true ace will be available.

Donaldson is getting long in the tooth. They are already a bunch of young guys just outside their prime and a bunch of old guys past their prime. They need to get a few guys in their prime if they truly want to compete. Donaldson isn't a bad but he can't be the #3 bat you're going for either. The reason I said move DeJong is because his is good defensively at SS (a little above league average I think), but you move him to 3rd and he's probably close to GG and you may be able to trade for a GG shortstop. However, that SS more then likely can't hit and you already have a black hole at 2nd with Wong. The Cardinals (mainly Mo and Girsch) need to decide what kind of team they are. The Brewers are a great bullpen and great lineup. Their starters aren't great. The Cubs have some good starters, a good bullpen, and a great lineup. You have to find a way to compete because these half measures they've been doing aren't going to cut it. Also, the young pitchers will be awesome but there isn't room for all of them. It might be time to trade a few in a package and try to get some help in other places. You also may need to sacrifice one to dump a bad contract like Cecil's or Fowler's.
 

bluesfan94

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Donaldson isn't that old and if you can get him for a two year deal you do it. It would be like Berkman or Beltran. He was really bad with Toronto but was hurt. Then he got healthy. Now he's been good for Cleveland. He's also good defensively (or at least was).

I'd rather eat contracts because we can afford them.

A lineup of:
Ozuna - Bader - O'Neill
Donaldson - DeJong - Wong - Carpenter
Molina​

with a rotation of:
Flaherty
Martinez
Mikolas
Gomber
Wacha

is a pretty good team, assuming we have a decent bullpens. Bullpens are notoriously fickle. We could use a couple lefties, but at the same time, no idea who that would be. Cecil was thought to be that guy and wasn't.
 
Apr 30, 2012
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Isn’t be perfectly happy to land Donaldson on two year deal, but we really should be swinging for the fences (pun intended) and going hard after Harper. Then you platoon Bader and O’Neill in center. Trade Jose Martinez to the AL.
 

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Isn’t be perfectly happy to land Donaldson on two year deal, but we really should be swinging for the fences (pun intended) and going hard after Harper. Then you platoon Bader and O’Neill in center. Trade Jose Martinez to the AL.
I think I'd rather have Machado. The most important defensive areas of the diamond would be held by Molina, Machado, Wong, Bader. That's about as good as it gets defensively for up the middle defense. Then obviously Machado can hit too. He'd pretty much instantly make us a contender if we stayed healthy. It's not going to happen. The Cards just don't really sign big name free agents. Sometimes they come close, but it seems they almost always miss out. Machado is probably going to the Yankees or stay in LA anyway so it's moot. Harper might be more realistic because I think he just wants as much money as he can get, so maybe you could convince him with a big enough check, but I highly doubt either is going to happen.
 

Majorityof1

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Mar 6, 2014
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Does anyone know if Assassin's Creed Odyssey is any good?

Its not out yet except for those who got the deluxe editions. Those people have had a 40+ hour game for less than a day, so I'd take those opinions with a grain of salt anyway It reviewed fairly well. Lots of 9+/10 scores. Average metacritic of 85/100, vast majority of scores at least 8/10 or higher. Its more action RPG than assassin's creed game, even more so than Origins. From the opinions I have read, if you liked the direction of Origins, you should like this. If you didn't, you won't. Fan reaction among those that have played is vehemently split along this divide.

Personally, I am going to wait for a 33-50% off sale, probably Black Friday/cyber Tuesday. Not because I am not interested, but just because I have the backlog to keep me busy and like to wait until all the bugs have been patched out.
 

bluesfan94

Registered User
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I think I'd rather have Machado. The most important defensive areas of the diamond would be held by Molina, Machado, Wong, Bader. That's about as good as it gets defensively for up the middle defense. Then obviously Machado can hit too. He'd pretty much instantly make us a contender if we stayed healthy. It's not going to happen. The Cards just don't really sign big name free agents. Sometimes they come close, but it seems they almost always miss out. Machado is probably going to the Yankees or stay in LA anyway so it's moot. Harper might be more realistic because I think he just wants as much money as he can get, so maybe you could convince him with a big enough check, but I highly doubt either is going to happen.
Machado is a bad defensive shortstop
 
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The Note

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Losing the division in a tiebreaker after leading most of the year and then losing in the wildcard game -both at home- is a rough way to end a season. Obviously my heart breaks for Cubs fans.
 
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542365

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Machado is a bad defensive shortstop
It was his first season playing short stop professionally. He has the tools necessary to be a great defensive short stop or if all else fails put him back at 3B. Either way he would help the team tremendously on both sides.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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Losing the division in a tiebreaker after leading most of the year and then losing in the wildcard game -both at home- is a rough way to end a season. Obviously my heart breaks for Cubs fans.
true but so is losing 5/6 and losing a 1.5 lead on a playoff spot.

our gm is a joke.
 

MissouriMook

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Losing the division in a tiebreaker after leading most of the year and then losing in the wildcard game -both at home- is a rough way to end a season. Obviously my heart breaks for Cubs fans.
#ThatsCub
 

The Note

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true but so is losing 5/6 and losing a 1.5 lead on a playoff spot.

our gm is a joke.

I agree the Cardinals definitely weren’t any better but losing the division and the Wild Card game in 2 days is nearly as bad. There’s plenty the Cardinals need to do to close the gap between them and Chicago and Milwaukee.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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true but so is losing 5/6 and losing a 1.5 lead on a playoff spot.

our gm is a joke.

Our GM has made some questionable decisions in the recent past, yes. Kept Matheny possibly a year or two too long, but that could have been ownership. Signing Shildt mid-season. Going after Price/Heyward, signing Fowler, Cecil, and Gregerson. Allowing Matheny to ruin Siegrist, Rosenthal, and Maness. Not doing enough to improve at the July or August trade deadlines when the team was in the dead heat of a race and not trading off enough the year before when it wasn't. I think this the last off-season Mo and Girsch should get to try and improve. If the Cardinals miss a 4th time, it's time for FO to go.
 
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