Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part VI

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STLegend

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Feb 20, 2010
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This has been an amazing stretch, but 2 things I want to see before getting excited about going to the playoffs will be:

1.) Can Binnington maintain this level of play?

2.) Can the team perform in a game where they are playing from behind?

They have not had to play from behind in 7 straight, and that is something that will undoubtedly happen in the playoffs. I want to see that they can fight back and erase a deficit of a couple goals.
 

Dbrownss

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Jan 5, 2014
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I'm not overly worried about Binny. He didnt have spectacular games in LA or against NJ....but he bounced back. What he's doing is unsustainable, but.....his play is very Ho Hum. He's positionally sound AF. He's not making ludicrous saves. He'll slow down but I'd bet he will keep the guys in the games.

As for playing from behind, they did that in Florida.
 
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BlueDream

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Binnington won't maintain THIS level of play but he could be a #1 goalie in the NHL. We'll just have to wait and see.

He had potential when he was drafted, and his last couple seasons in the AHL were good. So, it's not like he completely came out of nowhere.
 
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Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
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This has been an amazing stretch, but 2 things I want to see before getting excited about going to the playoffs will be:

1.) Can Binnington maintain this level of play?

2.) Can the team perform in a game where they are playing from behind?

They have not had to play from behind in 7 straight, and that is something that will undoubtedly happen in the playoffs. I want to see that they can fight back and erase a deficit of a couple goals.

I mean they were trailing by 2 in the 3rd in Florida and came back won. So there's that.
 

ZigZagBluesFan

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Sep 30, 2010
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I've been preaching for years that this team doesn't need an elite netminder to succeed in this system. When the defensive system is working, as we've seen, a positionally sound goalie can do the things that Binnington is doing, what Hutton did last year, or what Elliott did in 2016.

The Blues need a calm presence in the net and the stoic Binnington has been great in that role. In 2016, Elliott's performance was textbook positional goaltending. I don't see Binnington at that level positionally, and he's been getting a lot of puck luck, but he's providing enough stability back there and as a result the team has been able to find it's structure rather than scrambling around with Allen in there. It's evident from this past few seasons that this team's defensive performance echoes that of the goalie behind them.

I like what I've seen, but will it be good enough? I guess time will tell.
 

STLegend

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Feb 20, 2010
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I'm not overly worried about Binny. He didnt have spectacular games in LA or against NJ....but he bounced back. What he's doing is unsustainable, but.....his play is very Ho Hum. He's positionally sound AF. He's not making ludicrous saves. He'll slow down but I'd bet he will keep the guys in the games.

As for playing from behind, they did that in Florida.

I mean they were trailing by 2 in the 3rd in Florida and came back won. So there's that.

Right, that's just one game though, it was also the first time I saw that kind of performance all season.
 

Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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I didn't leave Parayko & Schwartz out on purpose so my mistake there. Parayko is young at 25 and Schwartz won't turn 27 until June. My point was more to the fact the core group isn't super young. The legitimate time frame to go for the gusto is over the next 4-5 years and who knows what our D & G will look like during that span.

I wouldn't trade futures for rentals. If however the opportunity is there to get a legitimate 2C, and sign them long term, I wonder where Army is on that thought process because of Thomas etc..

I totally agree that the time frame is 5 years (including this year). That is the length of both ROR and Tarasenko's contracts and no one else on the team is currently under contract past that date. With the way the NHL has trended younger over the last few years, I think planning beyond 5 years is futile in today's NHL (other than not handing out contracts that will obviously handcuff you). My issue with trading futures is that we are going to need a flow of young guys who can step in and contribute on ELCs during that stretch because the cap will likely be very tight starting in 2020/21.
 

Brian39

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Maybe 6x8 for Petro?

There is almost no chance Petro is given a 6 year contract. I'd guess he gets an 8 year extension, but the floor is 7 years. It doesn't matter that he'll be 30 when that contract begins, that is the cost of top-end players. In UFA, teams would be tripping over each other to make 7 year offers. Vlassic got an 8 year deal that began when he was 31. Seabrook got 8 years starting at 31 on his horrible contract. Burns got 8 years which began when he was 32. Giordano's 6 year deal takes him to 38. McDonagh's extension is for 7 years and will begin when he is 30. Yandle got 7 years that began when he was 30. They are a couple years younger than Petro, but Carlson, Ekman-Larsson, Doughty, Ellis and Hedman all got 8 year deals.

6 years is almost certainly a non-starter from Petro's camp unless the AAV is just comically high. Petro might not be in the top half of that group of comparables, but he is not at the bottom. The AAV is going to be interesting, but he is squarely among the type of D man that is given a 7 or 8 year deal that takes him to 37 or 38 years old.
 
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Spektre

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Apr 10, 2010
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I totally agree that the time frame is 5 years (including this year). That is the length of both ROR and Tarasenko's contracts and no one else on the team is currently under contract past that date. With the way the NHL has trended younger over the last few years, I think planning beyond 5 years is futile in today's NHL (other than not handing out contracts that will obviously handcuff you). My issue with trading futures is that we are going to need a flow of young guys who can step in and contribute on ELCs during that stretch because the cap will likely be very tight starting in 2020/21.


All these players are signed past this season.

Schenn ROR Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron
Steen Thomas MacMac

Dunn Pietrangelo
Parayko
Bortuzzo

I'm not saying those are the lines next season or anything close to that. Those are the only forwards signed at least till the end of next year.

These are RFA's and can be signed for relatively cheap.

Fabbri, Sanford, Barbashev, Sundqvist, Blais, & Edmundson

All of those will sign on the cheap other than Ed and I don't think he sees north of 4 million per year. That's a total of 14 forwards and we're not including Kyrou or Kostin. I'm not for trading all the futures or young players but, with how the roster is assembled and with the needs going forward, I think there's a case to be made it's a good time to trade young guys to fill in the gaps.

Nobody knows how this Binnington story ends. If I'm Army there is 0 chance Allen is on my roster next year. Steen wouldn't be on the roster either and I don't care if I have to buy both out in the off-season. Looking forward you will have to get LHD and a G. There aren't great options in UFA. Gardiner is slated to be a UFA but meh.

I have zero clue if Army ever gives the coach any nudges on who to play where. One would doubt it but he definitely has to have some kind of vision of what he thinks will happen and where players will slot into the roster. Thomas is healthy. If they were going to play him at 2C it should have already happened. Do they see him being the 2C next year? Do they bring up a little slower at 3C? We can all take guesses but nobody knows. Do they envision Ed and Dunn being the top 4 next season? If so it's not going to be a great deal of work to find a 3rd LHD whether it's internal or external.

Bozak's NTC lists 12 teams he can be traded to. Is there a market there with those 12 teams? I'd definitely be exploring it. I'm all on the Hayes train. Maybe it costs Kostin + 1st. As already shown there are cost controlled options at forward and Kyrou should be a full time Blue next season. Here's my ideal 2019-20 roster and I trade Kostin + 1st for Hayes all day long.

Schenn ROR Tarasenko
Schwartz Hayes Perron
Fabbri Thomas Kyrou
Sanford Barbashev Sundqvist

Ed Pietrangelo
Dunn Parayko
X Bortuzzo (would love to get Zadorov at LD)

Binnington.... and it's anyone's guess who the Blues sign at Goalie.


With buying out Allen and Steen and signing the RFA's the cap hit would be somewhere around 66 million. That's with giving Hayes a 6x6 contract. The cap is supposed to go to 83 million. If that's the case you're looking at around 16 million in space to sign a LD & a goalie.

The other direction would be target a big name LD like a Fowler and keep Bozak. Either way the franchise should be able to make 1 big trade that includes futures and be fine.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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Why Kevin Hayes? He's been a sub 50 point player his first 3 seasons playing nearly a full schedule. He's only this year starting to break out of a shell? Why does that deserve 6 years at 6 million a year? Why not have Thomas be your 2C and Bozak be 3? Bozak for 5 million is better than Berglund if you give him more offensive support. Steen, Sanford, and Maroon aren't exactly it.
 
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Blueston

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There is almost no chance Petro is given a 6 year contract. I'd guess he gets an 8 year extension, but the floor is 7 years. It doesn't matter that he'll be 30 when that contract begins, that is the cost of top-end players. In UFA, teams would be tripping over each other to make 7 year offers. Vlassic got an 8 year deal that began when he was 31. Seabrook got 8 years starting at 31 on his horrible contract. Burns got 8 years which began when he was 32. Giordano's 6 year deal takes him to 38. McDonagh's extension is for 7 years and will begin when he is 30. Yandle got 7 years that began when he was 30. They are a couple years younger than Petro, but Carlson, Ekman-Larsson, Doughty, Ellis and Hedman all got 8 year deals.

6 years is almost certainly a non-starter from Petro's camp unless the AAV is just comically high. Petro might not be in the top half of that group of comparables, but he is not at the bottom. The AAV is going to be interesting, but he is squarely among the type of D man that is given a 7 or 8 year deal that takes him to 37 or 38 years old.
Almost all of thsoe are awful contracts. Vlasic and Seabrook especially are anvils.
 

EastVillageBlues

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Feb 18, 2019
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All these players are signed past this season.

Schenn ROR Tarasenko
Schwartz Bozak Perron
Steen Thomas MacMac

Dunn Pietrangelo
Parayko
Bortuzzo

I'm not saying those are the lines next season or anything close to that. Those are the only forwards signed at least till the end of next year.

These are RFA's and can be signed for relatively cheap.

Fabbri, Sanford, Barbashev, Sundqvist, Blais, & Edmundson

All of those will sign on the cheap other than Ed and I don't think he sees north of 4 million per year. That's a total of 14 forwards and we're not including Kyrou or Kostin. I'm not for trading all the futures or young players but, with how the roster is assembled and with the needs going forward, I think there's a case to be made it's a good time to trade young guys to fill in the gaps.

Nobody knows how this Binnington story ends. If I'm Army there is 0 chance Allen is on my roster next year. Steen wouldn't be on the roster either and I don't care if I have to buy both out in the off-season. Looking forward you will have to get LHD and a G. There aren't great options in UFA. Gardiner is slated to be a UFA but meh.

I have zero clue if Army ever gives the coach any nudges on who to play where. One would doubt it but he definitely has to have some kind of vision of what he thinks will happen and where players will slot into the roster. Thomas is healthy. If they were going to play him at 2C it should have already happened. Do they see him being the 2C next year? Do they bring up a little slower at 3C? We can all take guesses but nobody knows. Do they envision Ed and Dunn being the top 4 next season? If so it's not going to be a great deal of work to find a 3rd LHD whether it's internal or external.

Bozak's NTC lists 12 teams he can be traded to. Is there a market there with those 12 teams? I'd definitely be exploring it. I'm all on the Hayes train. Maybe it costs Kostin + 1st. As already shown there are cost controlled options at forward and Kyrou should be a full time Blue next season. Here's my ideal 2019-20 roster and I trade Kostin + 1st for Hayes all day long.

Schenn ROR Tarasenko
Schwartz Hayes Perron
Fabbri Thomas Kyrou
Sanford Barbashev Sundqvist

Ed Pietrangelo
Dunn Parayko
X Bortuzzo (would love to get Zadorov at LD)

Binnington.... and it's anyone's guess who the Blues sign at Goalie.


With buying out Allen and Steen and signing the RFA's the cap hit would be somewhere around 66 million. That's with giving Hayes a 6x6 contract. The cap is supposed to go to 83 million. If that's the case you're looking at around 16 million in space to sign a LD & a goalie.

The other direction would be target a big name LD like a Fowler and keep Bozak. Either way the franchise should be able to make 1 big trade that includes futures and be fine.

These all look good.

Except I'm not so sure about Edmondson. Based on his play this year (which could arguably be the worst defender among the regulars). Not sure if he is really worth more than 2M AAV. If we sign him to a big deal, it may be one that comes back to haunt us, basing it solely on a one and half season of his top-4 like play. Outside of 3 or 4 games, he doesn't look like a top 4 D at all this year. Actually JayBo and Gunnar both look significantly better than him most of the season. I would actually think about moving on from him, if we can get a 2nd + decent prospect, given that he's likely to want a raise this summer.
 
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EastVillageBlues

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Feb 18, 2019
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Bruins fan. Just stopped by to say I saw Binnington a lot in Providence last year and really was hoping Boston would take a flier on him at some point down the road. Don't see that happening anytime soon. Good for him, I think he's got a solid NHL future with your club.

You are right, not many of us here gave him a chance to be NHL starter. Most saw Husso being the heir apparent, to take over in the next year or two.

But he's definitely taught many people around a here a good lesson. Kudos to you for seeing his potential early.
 

GarbageGoal

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You are right, not many of us here gave him a chance to be NHL starter. Most saw Husso being the heir apparent, to take over in the next year or two.

But he's definitely taught many people around a here a good lesson. Kudos to you for seeing his potential early.

I just found him to be a fairly steady netminder. Nothing spectacular, no wasted movement, not trying to make the flashy save like a lot of guys try to down at the AHL level trying to get someone's attention.
 

EastVillageBlues

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Feb 18, 2019
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I just found him to be a fairly steady netminder. Nothing spectacular, no wasted movement, not trying to make the flashy save like a lot of guys try to down at the AHL level trying to get someone's attention.

Yeah, that's part of his charm, he doesn't seem to get flustered at all, and just has the appearance of calmness. It's basically the exact opposite of Allen. His style, consistency, and composure is a huge part of why the Blues play so well behind him; and that's also why JA fails spectacularly once in a while behind this team.
 

BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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God I can't f***ing wait for the day when Kelly and Pang are gushing about how calm Binnington is - then in the middle of their dialogue, someone gives Binny a snow shower and he challenges them to a fight, and then skates out to center ice and challenges the opposing goalie to a fight.

This needs to happen.
 

Xerloris

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Jun 9, 2015
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These all look good.

Except I'm not so sure about Edmondson. Based on his play this year (which could arguably be the worst defender among the regulars). Not sure if he is really worth more than 2M AAV. If we sign him to a big deal, it may be one that comes back to haunt us, basing it solely on a one and half season of his top-4 like play. Outside of 3 or 4 games, he doesn't look like a top 4 D at all this year. Actually JayBo and Gunnar both look significantly better than him most of the season. I would actually think about moving on from him, if we can get a 2nd + decent prospect, given that he's likely to want a raise this summer.

So trade our best LHD D below the age of like 32 for a 2nd and a prospect? Out of your mind.
 

Blueston

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Hey, it wasnt long ago people were ready to hang Dunn.
We are a fickle bunch. Dunn can be infuriating, but he is what you want in modern defenseman. Great puck skills, outstanding skater, and numbers back up that in spite of his boners we are better defensively when he is on ice.
 
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