Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part III

[EXTRAS]

Is parayko ever gonna score 40? Or is he is what he is at this point? Was hoping he'd improve...

 

[ManyIdeas]

Is parayko ever gonna score 40? Or is he is what he is at this point? Was hoping he'd improve...

he had a great assist against montreal

 

[Evocable Manager]

he had a great assist for montreal

Fixed

 

[ScratchCatFever]

Is parayko ever gonna score 40? Or is he is what he is at this point? Was hoping he'd improve...

Right now he is at the doorstep of entering his prime. Three years ago he looked like a sure bet to be a 15 goal and minimal 30 assist defenceman, which I still believe both are entirely possible. Coaching he receives going forward will have a lot to do with it which begs the question; is Van Ryn a competent defensive coach? And is he the right guy moving forward to maximize his potential as well as Dunn's and that of Schmaltz. And if this team doesn't turn things around in a hurry and Yeo gets canned how much of the current staff will go with him?

 

[Brockon]

Is parayko ever gonna score 40? Or is he is what he is at this point? Was hoping he'd improve...

I think he consistently needs an Edmunson type partner to hit a higher level of production. Someone that will defer to him to run the transition and cover for him while he is up on the rush.

While Parayko is expected to be well rounded, it cuts back a bit on his offensive numbers. When he is partnered with Dunn, he isn't the outlet option of choice.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think he consistently needs an Edmunson type partner to hit a higher level of production. Someone that will defer to him to run the transition and cover for him while he is up on the rush.

While Parayko is expected to be well rounded, it cuts back a bit on his offensive numbers. When he is partnered with Dunn, he isn't the outlet option of choice.

That's a coaching system error. Nashville's d score from both sides just fine

 

[Brockon]

That's a coaching system error. Nashville's d score from both sides just fine

Possibly. But, it's foolhardy to believe that Parayko's point totals aren't affected by his partner to some extent.

Nashville also lacks the number of potent offensive forwards we have on our roster (at least on paper), the defence is a much more prominent part of their offence - be it individual skill or their overall system.

I'm not saying that it's ideal that one dman is relied upon to run the transition per pairing for us. But frankly I could care less about who puts up the points. I'd like to see some order emerge from the chaos we're seeing on the back end to see this roster play up to its skill level and potential.

 

[DoubleK81]

Win one Cup and even the commentators get cocky.

Honestly though, is he wrong? There is nothing about this team that shows that the players are allowed to free-wheel at all. If you're not given any opportunity to create something on your own, everything begins to look the same.

Jaskin looked very good his rookie year, making plays that didn't seem like they were orchestrated by team structure. Every year since, he has looked worse and worse. As an idea get drilled into your head, individuality goes out the window. Anyone else realize this?

 

[tfriede2]

I’m tired of waiting for this supposed potential in Parayko to develop...I don’t see it happening and didn’t see it last year either. He’s still a good player, but he’s a Bouwmeester-type player, not MacInnis/Pronger/Weber or Petro type. I don’t see him scoring more than 40 points in a year...yep, he has the potential to, but his assertiveness and confidence in the offensive end has consistently decreased since his rookie season, IMO. I think he is what he is now.

 

[Renard]

Parayko is a puzzle right now.

People want him to use his size and strength, and its clear now that he won't be that guy. He doesn't have a mean streak.

But I am very surprised at his failure to develop into a dominant player. He needs to take charge, assert himself, not defer to others. I am confident that he has the ability to be a star in the NHL.

 

[Alklha]

Honestly though, is he wrong? There is nothing about this team that shows that the players are allowed to free-wheel at all. If you're not given any opportunity to create something on your own, everything begins to look the same.

Jaskin looked very good his rookie year, making plays that didn't seem like they were orchestrated by team structure. Every year since, he has looked worse and worse. As an idea get drilled into your head, individuality goes out the window. Anyone else realize this?

The other side of it is that the complaints about this have been from Jaškin and Thompson, two guys with zero real experience of other NHL teams and who underperformed. It's easy to be one of the better players at lower levels and given a lot more freedom to do what you do, and if they were at this level then they would have more freedom.

That doesn't mean they don't have a point. Armstrong should be reaching out to former players who have more experience and getting their perspective of things. You can at east expect brutal honesty from ones who aren't connected with the team.

Armstrong is very good about talking about the teams problems during the offseason, and then not much happens. We've seen him talk about things in the past and end up going back on it once the season starts.

Two-way play is extremely important, and it's going to be fundamental for us to have any success considering we don't have an elite centre. One thing that I think is an issue is that we seem to focus on this at a team level rather than an individual level, something that is still very 1990's.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Blaming the scheme is a straw man, the Blues issues thru the first 6 games run deeper than that.

Former players in JRs article said as much. I agree that there are other issues, veterans playing like crap, inconsistent goaltending, no offensive creativity, but his system or scheme is kind of the root cause. I don’t think that swapping out the young guys is going to change anything. To me, no one looks like they know where they’re supposed to be defensively and that stems from his defensive scheme. I can also see what Jaskin was talking about with the offensive rigidity. I forgot what article it was mentioned in but last year, someone talked about Schenn liking to be in a more structured type of game while Tarasenko was more of a free wheeler which is why some of the magic on that line was lost. It makes total sense their offense is this way with Hitch and Yeo being more defensive and structure minded coaches. The problem is that the game is moving away from that with more of an open creativity kind of game taking over. You can say there are other issues but the root issue is Yeo and his system and this team simply isn’t built for it. To me, the second issue behind it is his over reliance on veterans with a double standard towards them versus younger players.

 

[BlueDream]

Tage Thompson isn’t NHL ready and Buffalo fans are now seeing and agreeing with that.

Jaskin is a 4th liner, has been a 4th liner on Washington and most of the rest of the league passed on him on waivers.

Until a player with some actual credibility says something, I’m not worried about what bitter fringe players think about our system. The reality is they’re just not that good. I think the only player that has had issues here that went on to become good was probably Ian Cole. But that’s fine, that’s gonna happen with any team. For the most part, if you deserve the playing time then you’ll get it here. Obviously we want guys like Thomas to get more but he’s still 19 so I’m not too worried about that yet.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Tage Thompson isn’t NHL ready and Buffalo fans are now seeing and agreeing with that.

Jaskin is a 4th liner, has been a 4th liner on Washington and most of the rest of the league passed on him on waivers.

Until a player with some actual credibility says something, I’m not worried about what bitter fringe players think about our system. The reality is they’re just not that good. I think the only player that has had issues here that went on to become good was probably Ian Cole. But that’s fine, that’s gonna happen with any team. For the most part, if you deserve the playing time then you’ll get it here. Obviously we want guys like Thomas to get more but he’s still 19 so I’m not too worried about that yet.

But Jaskin could also be an example of a failed prospect who showed promise simply because he was told or forced to play a way that wasn’t the way that got him to the NHL. Thomas is one of the best prospect the Blues have had and while he’s 19, you could still be damaging his development and psyche by not letting him play. What do you want a player with credibility to say because right now, they are still on this team. Stastny waived and jumped ship real last year. That should tell you what he thought. Tage and Jaskin have said very similar things about what this team was doing. You can dismiss it as they aren’t good enough but two players saying the same thing does provide some smoke. I may be on an island thinking Yeo is the wrong coach and is making horrible lineup decisions on top of holding veterans and younger players to different standards, but I guess only time will tell if he can fix it. Sounds like the man on man experiment is over. I just hope the offense is allowed to open up and Yeo learns that simply working hard doesn’t mean you have the skill to go along with it.

 

[BlueDream]

But Jaskin could also be an example of a failed prospect who showed promise simply because he was told or forced to play a way that wasn’t the way that got him to the NHL. Thomas is one of the best prospect the Blues have had and while he’s 19, you could still be damaging his development and psyche by not letting him play. What do you want a player with credibility to say because right now, they are still on this team. Stastny waived and jumped ship real last year. That should tell you what he thought. Tage and Jaskin have said very similar things about what this team was doing. You can dismiss it as they aren’t good enough but two players saying the same thing does provide some smoke. I may be on an island thinking Yeo is the wrong coach and is making horrible lineup decisions on top of holding veterans and younger players to different standards, but I guess only time will tell if he can fix it. Sounds like the man on man experiment is over. I just hope the offense is allowed to open up and Yeo learns that simply working hard doesn’t mean you have the skill to go along with it.

Jaskin cannot slate. He cannot lift the puck. He’s not a playmaker.

I just don’t see any real NHL skills there. Doesn’t matter what the system is. He’s a limited player with what he can do.

The Stastny example isn’t good. He liked it here. But wanted a chance to win a Cup. What’s wrong with that?

 

[Alklha]

Tage Thompson isn’t NHL ready and Buffalo fans are now seeing and agreeing with that.

Jaskin is a 4th liner, has been a 4th liner on Washington and most of the rest of the league passed on him on waivers.

Until a player with some actual credibility says something, I’m not worried about what bitter fringe players think about our system. The reality is they’re just not that good. I think the only player that has had issues here that went on to become good was probably Ian Cole. But that’s fine, that’s gonna happen with any team. For the most part, if you deserve the playing time then you’ll get it here. Obviously we want guys like Thomas to get more but he’s still 19 so I’m not too worried about that yet.

That's fair, but it isn't also the only way to assess it.

As I said, these guys have no experience with other NHL teams and might be looking for scapegoats in their own failings. However, simply because we don't lose good players doesn't mean that we are holding back the good players we have with how we use them. The experienced pros are also more likely to be guarded with their comments.

Oshie is a good example of someone held back here, particularly in the playoffs. He's had more points in each single postseason run in Washington than he had in all 5 playoffs runs in St. Louis combined. The usage and team focused expectations can limit overall effectiveness. It's going back to Hitch, but difficult to talk about Yeo players with how little time he has been here.

I get that it's two nothing players that are making these comments, but we can somewhat see it with how players are treated as well.

 

[BlueDream]

That's fair, but it isn't also the only way to assess it.

As I said, these guys have no experience with other NHL teams and might be looking for scapegoats in their own failings. However, simply because we don't lose good players doesn't mean that we are holding back the good players we have with how we use them. The experienced pros are also more likely to be guarded with their comments.

Oshie is a good example of someone held back here, particularly in the playoffs. He's had more points in each single postseason run in Washington than he had in all 5 playoffs runs in St. Louis combined. The usage and team focused expectations can limit overall effectiveness. It's going back to Hitch, but difficult to talk about Yeo players with how little time he has been here.

I get that it's two nothing players that are making these comments, but we can somewhat see it with how players are treated as well.

Oshie was not held back here. There is a huge difference between playing with David Backes and playing with the likes of Ovechkin, Backstrom and Kuznetsov. Monsterous dicference. He just has more guys to work with there, so he can pick up more points and have more room to work. That’s it.

For the comment about how players are treated, if you think players are treated badly here then I think you’re just not paying attention to other teams. All young guys go through this type of stuff. And veterans too. Lots of good players have been scratched. There’s so many examples.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Oshie was not held back here. There is a huge difference between playing with David Backes and playing with the likes of Ovechkin, Backstrom and Kuznetsov. Monsterous dicference. He just has more guys to work with there, so he can pick up more points and have more room to work. That’s it.

I disagree.

The talent is a factor, sure, but it's not the only factor. Oshie was asked to play a simple, straight line game here and was quite often tasked with the teams' heaviest defensive assignments as a RW. He's not burdened with either of those things in Washington, and the difference is quite visible. On the PP, Oshie's usually used in the mid-slot area in Washington...a place where he's thrived. Here he was often used on the point, a place where he was much less effective.

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that maybe Oshie just wasn't used in the best way here. We talked about a lot of those issues for years back when he was on the team, so it's not like this is some sort of hindsight rationalization process.

The change in usage isn't such a big factor that it would be the difference between him being a superstar and not, but at the same time it's pretty counter-intuitive to believe that it didn't matter at all.

 

[BlueDream]

I disagree.

The talent is a factor, sure, but it's not the only factor. Oshie was asked to play a simple, straight line game here and was quite often tasked with the teams' heaviest defensive assignments as a RW. He's not burdened with either of those things in Washington, and the difference is quite visible. On the PP, Oshie's usually used in the mid-slot area in Washington...a place where he's thrived. Here he was often used on the point, a place where he was much less effective.

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that maybe Oshie just wasn't used in the best way here. We talked about a lot of those issues for years back when he was on the team, so it's not like this is some sort of hindsight rationalization process.

The change in usage isn't such a big factor that it would be the difference between him being a superstar and not, but at the same time it's pretty counter-intuitive to believe that it didn't matter at all.

And yet... he’s produced essentially the same number of points as he did in STL.

I think you’re seeing what you want to see but that’s fine. The results just aren’t that different aside from the fact that he’s on a better team.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I disagree.

The talent is a factor, sure, but it's not the only factor. Oshie was asked to play a simple, straight line game here and was quite often tasked with the teams' heaviest defensive assignments as a RW. He's not burdened with either of those things in Washington, and the difference is quite visible. On the PP, Oshie's usually used in the mid-slot area in Washington...a place where he's thrived. Here he was often used on the point, a place where he was much less effective.

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that maybe Oshie just wasn't used in the best way here. We talked about a lot of those issues for years back when he was on the team, so it's not like this is some sort of hindsight rationalization process.

The change in usage isn't such a big factor that it would be the difference between him being a superstar and not, but at the same time it's pretty counter-intuitive to believe that it didn't matter at all.

Someone had to fill those assignments. Oshie did decently well at that. Boarding now so no longer comments.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

Parayko is a puzzle right now.

People want him to use his size and strength, and its clear now that he won't be that guy. He doesn't have a mean streak.

But I am very surprised at his failure to develop into a dominant player. He needs to take charge, assert himself, not defer to others. I am confident that he has the ability to be a star in the NHL.

Seems like fans of every other team in the NHL want him!!! He must have something that makes every fan in the league want him on their team!! Defensively he has been a stud. He shuts down and smothers attacking forwards, he stops breakaways, while not drawing too many penalties. In today's NHL he is a top defensive defenseman.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I'm not sure I'd make any adjustments from tonight's line up.

Impending log jam at forward and D to a lesser extent. Good problem to have I guess.

 

[EastonBlues22]

And yet... he’s produced essentially the same number of points as he did in STL.

I think you’re seeing what you want to see but that’s fine. The results just aren’t that different aside from the fact that he’s on a better team.

Regular season, maybe.

Postseason? Not even close.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I'm not sure I'd make any adjustments from tonight's line up.

Impending log jam at forward and D to a lesser extent. Good problem to have I guess.

I’d swap Thomas and Blais, but that’s it.

Also, if Sanford keeps this up, he might force Kyrou down to San Antonio(Blais I see going no matter what) when Fabbri/Soshnikov/Sundqvist get back. Not that that’s the worst thing in the world, though.

 

[Celtic Note]

I’d swap Thomas and Blais, but that’s it.

Also, if Sanford keeps this up, he might force Kyrou down to San Antonio(Blais I see going no matter what) when Fabbri/Soshnikov/Sundqvist get back. Not that that’s the worst thing in the world, though.

Soshnikov and Sundqvist can go to The Rampage. Sanford, Blais and Kyrou look better now that either of those two ever have.