Blues Discussion Thread 2018-2019 - Part II

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A Real Barn Burner

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I could be wrong but I think the arbitrator decide the money the Blues then decide if they want 2 or 1 year term at that price point.

Since he has only two years of team control if that happened no reason to go two years and give him UFA. They be forced one year and trade him or lock him up long term next off season.

That what I remember from the Sobi situation.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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Yeah, I'd say it's a decent possibility that we go 1 year with Edmundson, since his arbitration on a short-deal will be a decent amount under the cap, where a long-term deal will be close to it. Then once Gunnar and Bouwmeester are gone, Edmundson will get his long-term deal.

Not really worried about it.
 

WeWentBlues

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Yeah, I'd say it's a decent possibility that we go 1 year with Edmundson, since his arbitration on a short-deal will be a decent amount under the cap, where a long-term deal will be close to it. Then once Gunnar and Bouwmeester are gone, Edmundson will get his long-term deal.

Not really worried about it.
I'm not worried either. Just interested to understand the process and the longer term implications.
 

Houli

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Mar 10, 2012
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I tried looking back and couldn't find any talk about Tarasenko's last game of the season shoulder injury. Anyone concerned about it? General thoughts?
 

A Real Barn Burner

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I tried looking back and couldn't find any talk about Tarasenko's last game of the season shoulder injury. Anyone concerned about it? General thoughts?

Generally during the off season we won’t get info on this till training camp.

I don’t think it would be a huge concern. Berglund and Steen if I remember correctly had shoulder surgery and came back fine. The issue I can think of is if he needs it on the other shoulder in which case that would probably wait till next off season like Berglund.
 

Dbrownss

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I tried looking back and couldn't find any talk about Tarasenko's last game of the season shoulder injury. Anyone concerned about it? General thoughts?
Army talked about it. Said he had good range of motion and is on track
 

Klank Loves You

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I tried looking back and couldn't find any talk about Tarasenko's last game of the season shoulder injury. Anyone concerned about it? General thoughts?
If i recall correctly, it was just for a dislocation. Nothing scary, and they probably only did the surgery to help it not happen again.
 

TheBluePenguin

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Apr 15, 2015
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You know what the best thing about this off-season...... I can go read the trade forum without seeing multiple Trash for Parayko deals!! Even the other fans can see Army crushed it and we do not need to move him to magically fix all our problems. Its just so god damn refreshing.
 

The Note

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You know what the best thing about this off-season...... I can go read the trade forum without seeing multiple Trash for Parayko deals!! Even the other fans can see Army crushed it and we do not need to move him to magically fix all our problems. Its just so god damn refreshing.

I wouldn’t get too excited. There’s currently a raging tire fire of a thread proposing Petro to Toronto.
 

Brian39

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I wouldn’t get too excited. There’s currently a raging tire fire of a thread proposing Petro to Toronto.

I don't think Toronto has any intention of trading Matthews, so that should be the end of that thread.
 

Brian39

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I'm not worried at all about Ed. We still have about 10 days to work out an extension and it is in the interest of both parties to get it done. Ed will get a very low arbitration award, because the things he excels in are hard to quantify, he has length of NHL service is somewhat limited and his offensive stats are modest. He played bottom pairing minutes his first couple seasons here when the team made the playoffs and only played top 4 minutes the season we missed the playoffs. That's not going to score him many points in the "player's overall contribution to team success or failure" category. He's not a star player and he doesn't wear a letter. It will be very easy for the Blues to convince an arbitrator that he is a complimentary player and will be difficult for Ed to rebut since he can't present video or testimonial evidence. The type of game Ed plays is one of the hardest to quantifiably value using the metrics an arbitrator takes into consideration.

Look at what Nate Schmidt got last year: a 2 year award at $2.25 mil per year. Schmidt was 25 and coming off 17 points in 60 games for the Caps. He had 16 points in 76 games the year before, 200 NHL games when entering arbitration (Ed has 205) and a better +/- than Ed (for better or worse, this is a stat used by the NHL and can be presented to an arbitrator). His possession numbers entering arbitration were better than Ed's, but he also had easier deployment. I have a hard time believing Ed could hope for a higher award than Schmidt, especially for a 1 year award.

For argument's sake, let's say he gets a $2.5 mil arbitration award on a 1 year deal (which I think is best case scenario for him). That's about a $1.5 mil pay cut from what he would likely get on year 1 of a 4-5 year deal here. He'd be an RFA at the end of that deal and would likely be looking at extension offers from the Blues for roughly the same amount he is getting now. Given our logjam at LD at the moment, I don't think it is a given that he will outproduce what he did last season. I think it is unlikely that the eventual extension would be worth much more than the $1.5 pay cut he takes for this upcoming season. If he goes to arbitration again, we'd take a 2 year deal, so he'd be looking at 3 total years of arbitration awards before UFA, leaving $4+ mil on the table over those 3 years. I don't think he recovers that in years 4 and 5 when he hits UFA. Even if he does, it is delayed by 3 years. Assuming he is investing a decent chunk of his salary, missing out on 3 years of investments carries a cost.

Any way you slice it, going to arbitration instead of taking a $4ish mil AAV on a medium term deal is a lot of risk with little potential reward for Ed. If the Blues are making 4-5 year offers, it is in both parties' best interest to get a deal done on that instead of going to arbitration.
 

Brian39

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Re: Tarasenko's injury

Shoulder surgeries are always somewhat concerning, but we really won't know until we see him playing. One positive is that his shot isn't nearly as reliant on his shoulders as a guy like Bergie. He doesn't rip many slap shots and he doesn't generate his power through his shoulders like Bergie does on his half windup. Tarasenko's shot is almost entirely wrist/forearm, so I don't expect any long term reduction in his shot based on a shoulder issue.
 

The Note in MI

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Re: Tarasenko's injury

Shoulder surgeries are always somewhat concerning, but we really won't know until we see him playing. One positive is that his shot isn't nearly as reliant on his shoulders as a guy like Bergie. He doesn't rip many slap shots and he doesn't generate his power through his shoulders like Bergie does on his half windup. Tarasenko's shot is almost entirely wrist/forearm, so I don't expect any long term reduction in his shot based on a shoulder issue.
Additionally the surgery he is getting brings less risk than say a rotator cuff tear in that presumably the only concern was a labral tear from the humeral head shearing across the anterior glenoid. Usually this is just a few anchoring sutures and recovery is swift and successful. The timing was optimal in some ways in that he will still be allowed to bulk/train prior to the season. I expect no noticeable loss in his play and hope that he comes back energized given the offseason moves and expectations
 
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MU_Beerman

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Since its kinda on topic, does anyone think if Backes isn't one of the faces of the PA and forced the milking of every last dollar out of his free agency, he could've stayed here, remained a local hero, been on a more tolerable to decline contract, etc. I still wish the guy well, but Backes sure made the crummy bed he (and the Blues to an extent) are now lying in, it could've been so different. Maybe with this year it vecomes change for the better finally.
 

EastonBlues22

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Since its kinda on topic, does anyone think if Backes isn't one of the faces of the PA and forced the milking of every last dollar out of his free agency, he could've stayed here, remained a local hero, been on a more tolerable to decline contract, etc. I still wish the guy well, but Backes sure made the crummy bed he (and the Blues to an extent) are now lying in, it could've been so different. Maybe with this year it vecomes change for the better finally.
I don't think he took the stance he did because the PA strong-armed him into it. He took the contract that was the market value for him at the time, the new team was a good fit for him, and arguably because the new team was better positioned to compete for a Cup than the Blues were.

Yeah, it was pretty common knowledge that deal was no bargain for his new team, but UFA deals aren't supposed to be bargains for teams. They are supposed to represent the premium value a player can command in an open bidding market, a value which (for better talents) almost always isn't "fair" relative to their projected production moving forward.

It's really hard to blame players for taking the full value they are being offered after having their earnings systematically depressed for the first half of their careers (which often includes their best years). It's not like St. Louis did him any big favors financially over that span.
 

MU_Beerman

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I guess having the benefit of watching every game he played, you just knew he was never going to put up those kind of numbers again, especially in a diminished role. He did a lot for us, but we frankly used him up. Hell of a ride that last playoff run
 

Mike Liut

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I heard Schenn and ROR are good friends. This core group is the perfect age and seems like a really good group. That will go a long way when it comes time to re-sign Schenn and Petro and also attracting other players.
 

Dbrownss

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I heard Schenn and ROR are good friends. This core group is the perfect age and seems like a really good group. That will go a long way when it comes time to re-sign Schenn and Petro and also attracting other players.
It sounds like Schenn is going to be a big voice for this team. On and off the ice. With how he plays, he seems like our Backes replacement
 

STL fan in MN

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It sounds like Schenn is going to be a big voice for this team. On and off the ice. With how he plays, he seems like our Backes replacement

Yep, sounds like Schenn helped recruit ROR and has been helping ROR a lot since the trade (I assume in terms of logistical stuff like moving to STL, good areas to buy a house, amenities, etc.
 
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